Ottoman treaty advice? Viable?

[nickiru]

I actually think that Ottomans are incredibly strong in treaty if someone knows how to play them well. Their unit composition is actually quite insane and even if you can''t train janissaries fast enough if you are very skilled you can just keep on queued at all times. A lot of people try to out mass Avis guns with things like Imperio long Bowman but that just gets wrecked by Imperial bombards and Imperial Gardener spam real quick. Basically what Ottoman played well and treaty really does is force the opponent to go heavy on their hussars and this really hurts their economy after a while. Because huss vs even a few melee jan is a bad trade. There is no reason to ever make cavalry archer. The only thing you need as Ottomans that a lot of ppl miss is great bombards( and you actualy need them so badly if you lose ur factories you might as well resign.) janissaries and Avis guns. Sometimes you might want some Hussar. i play Ottoman in treaty by fast industrial using 700/1000 gold crates as soon as you get to industrial with the 1000 gold get the mercantilism and ship your factories and 2TC wagons. It seems really odd to do this but is actually the fastest way for Ottomans to Max villagers in treaty and I don''t think many people know about it. You may still be the last civ o max, but Your score will be ahead of them due to facts techs and you will probably be in Imperial age 1st. Also do the wood trade with like at least 10 minutes left and of course livestock. Like I said just keep your FPM good and micro well and try to force him to go cav heavy eventually this will drain him there on a lot of cities that have a composition that can really be superior to Ottomans when played well.

hey could you show me your deck doing the fast industrial? curious what you took out for the catalysts. I just started looking at my deck and was like... ouch gotta take out that many cards. Curious how much it helps the economics though so I''ll test it now, but curious about your deck.

also, something I keep debating with myself: when do you buy the villager training spd things at the church? I typically by them all till the 600w one (the last one) sometime around age 2. and I always buy the first one which costs 100w with my starting resources.

[lukasl99]

What the hell charlamegan?

"I''m really glad your experimenting, but no. You should remove this post in case a wandering new player sees this and decided to learn your strAt."

wow. I mean really? that is the number one way to offend me. way to shut down scientific development. It''s people like you who wreck improvement, research, and strategic development. It''s people like you who make everyone play what is socially acceptable and it''s poeple ike you who make ''what'' is socially acceptable. If you don''t play what''s acceptable, you are shunned and attacked!! CRAP. I hate you now. I hate your kind' therefore, I hate you.

No one will ever get better at this game unless they experiment. If a new player comes here and plays ottoman because of that: I would have thought GREAT!! If ottoman truly suck, he will figure that out on his own and then adjust himself and more fully understand why ottomans are weak and the other civs are better. Mindless drones such as yourself don''t understand why certain civs are weaker or stronger: and of course you''ll give me some basic proofs to prove me wrong like the types of units they have and card availability. You are to near sighted and only look at appearances!

you know why people haven''t invented new batteries to revolutionize electric vehicles? you know why people haven''t gone nuclear? you know why there seems to be this general technological stagnetism?

Its people like you.

Until there is someone who says: fuck the status quo, like scientists persecuted in the middle ages for going against the Catholics, and Nikola Tesla, people who made all these impressive leaps and bounds in theory and tech because they ignored the accepted things that shouldn''t work. That''s what I am trying to do and Get out of My Way! If I fail, let me fail. Don''t hinder some noob either from playing what they want. I surely hope you get destroyed by an ottoman in treaty. I hope it''s me.

I see people like you both real world an in games (it''s really the same people. people are people). I am a renewable energy engineer and I see this crap ALL the time. Pisses me off.
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rant.... that''s only targeted at charlamegan, no one else lest they say something like that.

It''s simply not viable since he''s sending crates during boom which you should never ever do in treaty because those cards don''t have a long-term effect.

[princeofcarthage]

@nickiru we can play 1v1 if you want, unr is fine or rated whatever you want, You can take ottoman and I will go germany, ports or brits and I will show you. Argument is good for progress but it's showing attitude, being rude and ignorant when the best players in game which have experimented long enough to know the ~best booms, came and tried to explain you nicely still you continue to argue with pointless booms.
Btw my eso is same as my name here.

[gibson]

The game has been out long enough now that someone is much likely to get better at it by following the Bo of a good player than experimenting....

[nickiru]

@nickiru we can play 1v1 if you want, unr is fine or rated whatever you want, You can take ottoman and I will go germany, ports or brits and I will show you. Argument is good for progress but it''s showing attitude, being rude and ignorant when the best players in game which have experimented long enough to know the ~best booms, came and tried to explain you nicely still you continue to argue with pointless booms.
Btw my eso is same as my name here.

sure i''ll happily play anyone. I''ll be on middle of next week. My activity on the eso is about to increase greatly. So i''ll gladly play in the very near future!

[nickiru]

I did that heavy accelerant test. and got a score of 2250 with ease. I did send the wood card rather late however, it was not my choice though. I'll have to time my cards better. at the time I thought I would have had my card at 10 minutes left lols.

here's a rec if you would like to see and yes this is offline on my insane computer so score inflation is in affect:

[attachment id="1862"]

My first time, so I was a bit indecisive in resource gathering lols. I see greater potential with it. I sense it could top out at 2500 which is my goal. however, I had to sacrifice 3 cards (grose) but that is some proper starting funds for treaty.

[illmatic]

my advice to you is to stop posting on this forum for a while, watch recs of players who know the game inside out, start playing more often, then you can participate in strategy-related disscusions. otherwise you're just sharing ignorance and nonsense that you cant back up. especially when you say you can get 3k with ports... thats just bullshit.

[princeofcarthage]

You got 2250 with on an offline boom, People score 2250 on an online boom. it is a great difference. Atleast about 300-400 points difference. It means in an online game you would be scoring somewhere 1800. Considering it's your first time it's not bad score but still it to be fair it is half of what the current booms are.

[nickiru]

my advice to you is to stop posting on this forum for a while, watch recs of players who know the game inside out, start playing more often, then you can participate in strategy-related disscusions. otherwise you''re just sharing ignorance and nonsense that you cant back up. especially when you say you can get 3k with ports... thats just bullshit.

oh i would have thought 3k was a breeze and people were reaching 4 k. but ok...

can you provide some recordings that you approve? the ones I have seen are about my skill level which is apparently inferior.

but back to my tests: here is some data.

Fast Industrial

Using 700c, 1000c:

I get to age 4 with 3tc''s and both factories at:
11min having 21 villagers because I bought all church spd boosts for villies up to the last 600w cost one.

at 20 min: 73 villies. Score: 500

at 24:50: I had all 100 vills

end score: 2250
___________________

Fast Fortress

Using ONLY 700c card:

Had 3 tc''s up and operating at 9min

Score at 20 min: 541
Villies at 20min: 85

had 100 villies at 24min

Score at 40min: 2186
____________________

Analysis:


Fast fortress yielded greater growth as I had 3 tc''s up 2 minutes faster (this is the combined time of aging and sending the 2 tc card in fast industrial)

Fast fortress had a very close score to fast industrial. Perhaps human error kept it below because more villagers should mean more score' however, the factories do come out 2 minutes later. Starting resources were different and I did not purchase the millet system in the church for the fast fortress (which is the first villager spd training boost for 100w).
I speculate that fast fortress would have had the same or better score than fast industrial.

Fast fortress is better also because I am only sacrificing one card for acceleration rather than 3 while still meeting at least the same score by 40 min.

Every time I get 100 villagers rather than 99. Bug? If I lose that villager I can''t get him back. Wonder if I could. Needs further testing.

____________________

Recordings of both tests:

[attachment id="1884"]

[attachment id="1885"]

[nickiru]

seriouesly, I mean this in a non snarcky way:

if you can provide some of the top dog aoe3 recs of otto, or german/port, etc booms in treaty that would be MUCH appreciated. what I have found are not helpful and I can't find anything that I can learn from.

preferrably recs and not videos, but videos work. I just can't watch them until next week

recs also provide more data

[illmatic]

seriouesly, I mean this in a non snarcky way:

if you can provide some of the top dog aoe3 recs of otto, or german/port, etc booms in treaty that would be MUCH appreciated. what I have found are not helpful and I can''t find anything that I can learn from.

preferrably recs and not videos, but videos work. I just can''t watch them until next week

recs also provide more data

you can go on dicks twitch just search "conquerer999 twitch" and it shud be the 1st one. he had an otto game today so that should be nice fr u. if u want recs which idk why u wud as vids are way easier to follow then also has a link for his recs on twitch. make sure to watch 2015 recs only though.

[Kaiserklein]

This is only true in nats, huamincas synergize with their only good units (abus/hussar) really well. Out of nats they don''t have a decent anticav and they also don''t kill goons fast enough.

Why wouldn''t you make cav archers ? Usually they aren''t much useful because they can''t really kite, but in treaty fights where armies don''t really run this isn''t an issue. Cav archers beat goons and they do better vs skirms than goons do. Plus they can tank against melee cav to cover efficiently your abus. And there have 1 upgrade from hc I think

[illmatic]

This is only true in nats, huamincas synergize with their only good units (abus/hussar) really well. Out of nats they dont have a decent anticav and they also dont kill goons fast enough.

Why wouldnt you make cav archers ? Usually they arent much useful because they cant really kite, but in treaty fights where armies dont really run this isnt an issue. Cav archers beat goons and they do better vs skirms than goons do. Plus they can tank against melee cav to cover efficiently your abus. And there have 1 upgrade from hc I think

dont make them use huss for anti cav. they lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do. and range does matter in treaty alot. you can have 8-12 goons far back enough to kill cav and not have to face skirm and they can live for quite some time.

[Kaiserklein]

Why wouldnt you make cav archers ? Usually they arent much useful because they cant really kite, but in treaty fights where armies dont really run this isnt an issue. Cav archers beat goons and they do better vs skirms than goons do. Plus they can tank against melee cav to cover efficiently your abus. And there have 1 upgrade from hc I think

dont make them use huss for anti cav. they lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do. and range does matter in treaty alot. you can have 8-12 goons far back enough to kill cav and not have to face skirm and they can live for quite some time.

I just said "Cav archers beat goons and they do better vs skirms than goons do". If you dont believe me, try yourself

[illmatic]

dont make them use huss for anti cav. they lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do. and range does matter in treaty alot. you can have 8-12 goons far back enough to kill cav and not have to face skirm and they can live for quite some time.

I just said "Cav archers beat goons and they do better vs skirms than goons do". If you dont believe me, try yourself

these kinds of comparisons are pointless.

[illmatic]

and no you didn't just say that, you asked why not use cav archers and i gave you the reasons.

[yurashic]

1 cav archer beats 1 goon regardless of resist.

[illmatic]

1 cav archer beats 1 goon regardless of resist.

again, this kind of comparison is pointless because it never happens.

[evilcheadar]

Do cav archer have high rate of fire?

[yurashic]

1 cav archer beats 1 goon regardless of resist.

again, this kind of comparison is pointless because it never happens.

"They lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do."

[yurashic]

Do cav archer have high rate of fire?

Yes, twice as fast as dragoons.

[evilcheadar]

Do cav archer have high rate of fire?

Yes, twice as fast as dragoons.

Hot damn thats kickass. I wonder if they benefit from the longbow effect?

[Cometk]

cav archers still lose to goons because they're not as maneuverable. you simply pull the dragoons back and the cav archers will run into the skirm mass--then the cav archers need to be pulled back, invalidating the advantage they have in being better at long engagements

in regards to ottoman, yeah you still have to make cav archers when you're fighting out of nat because huss aren't enough anti-cav and jans train slowly. so in between jan batches you might have to pop 5-10 cav archers to hold a flank.

if you have natives, cav archers aren't needed unless you're fighting spain

[illmatic]

again, this kind of comparison is pointless because it never happens.

"They lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do."

skirm/goon as in the combo. i couldnt give a shit about whether goon beats cav archer or vice versa because theres a thing called combos.

[Kaiserklein]

"They lose to skirm and goon because they have no range resist while goons do."

skirm/goon as in the combo. i couldnt give a shit about whether goon beats cav archer or vice versa because theres a thing called combos.

If CA do better than goons vs goons and skirms, then CA / skirms beats goon / skirms right ? Since CA are better than goons vs both goons and skirms... I say skirms but this is true with any kind of RI. So whats your point ?