musk huss vs xbow pike

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 03 Oct 2015, 12:47

Xbow pike beats musk huss in a straight up fight but there are other factors in a real game.
The reason why xbow pike isnt really viable in French mirror is xbow huss and steel traps. Also cdbs.

ra0ulduke · Post by **ra0ulduke** » 03 Oct 2015, 16:21

thebritish wrote:
ra0ulduke wrote:Im pretty sure in a straight up fight musk/hus is better since the pikes just get popped as they run in and out to cover bows, and hus are so tanky they take a lot of ranged fire to kill, but if there are lots of trees and natural barriers bows can do ok. Like others said, bow/pike are faster to mass so effective in rush, a good way to kill japan or maybe brit.
is you go xbow/pike, he can only go lbow and kill everything that shows up.
pikes wont be even able to touch him.

Its not that simple, if he goes straight lbow and you mass xbows you will out-mass him easily in a rush, Im mainly thinking of france but german its viable too. 10 lbows cost 200 more food than 10 xbows, also brit spends lots of wood on manors and has no 400 w age up option so they suffer in rush. That said brit can play very defensive so I think cav semi ff or musk/hus is probably stronger, but havent played the mu in a while.

ra0ulduke · Post by **ra0ulduke** » 03 Oct 2015, 16:29

garja wrote:Xbow pike beats musk huss in a straight up fight but there are other factors in a real game.
The reason why xbow pike isnt really viable in French mirror is xbow huss and steel traps. Also cdbs.

Hmm, well you are a good player so maybe you are right, but seems like pike get raped by musk and cav kills the rest.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 03 Oct 2015, 16:44

Depends on micro, also the bigger the numbers the worse xbow/pike is.

ra0ulduke · Post by **ra0ulduke** » 03 Oct 2015, 16:51

garja wrote:Depends on micro, also the bigger the numbers the worse xbow/pike is.

Agreed, I was thinking about medium sized armies, in long colonial musk hus seem better irregardless of raids.

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 04 Oct 2015, 00:39

ra0ulduke wrote:
thebritish wrote:is you go xbow/pike, he can only go lbow and kill everything that shows up.
pikes wont be even able to touch him.
Its not that simple, if he goes straight lbow and you mass xbows you will out-mass him easily in a rush, Im mainly thinking of france but german its viable too. 10 lbows cost 200 more food than 10 xbows, also brit spends lots of wood on manors and has no 400 w age up option so they suffer in rush. That said brit can play very defensive so I think cav semi ff or musk/hus is probably stronger, but havent played the mu in a while.

On tad I dont think this is true. Lb are way stronger than bows really, and if you dont play greedy you can mass lbs very fast. Im not a good brit player, yet I know you can make a bit more than 30 lbs in 7 min, while the french player will have I think around 35 xbows. No way you can kill this mass, plus hes defending so he can just back using his range and you cant push him cause of mm and 6 lb/musks shipment, maybe even an age up tower.

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 07:33

I just got the question why to even make pikes lol, maybe xbow/musk or lb/musk is better musk costs you ~110 food and pikes cost you around ~107 food musk gives you additional range attack and works pretty well against cav the only difference is train rate which is 3 secs difference. Unless you just want to siege really hard ofc pikes are better there.

krichk · Post by **krichk** » 04 Oct 2015, 07:54

princeofcarthage wrote:I just got the question why to even make pikes lol, maybe xbow/musk or lb/musk is better musk costs you ~110 food and pikes cost you around ~107 food musk gives you additional range attack and works pretty well against cav the only difference is train rate which is 3 secs difference. Unless you just want to siege really hard ofc pikes are better there.

Pikes and xbows cost wood, no gold. It''s harder to gather efficiently three resources at the same time early game, it''s as simple as that i guess.

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 04 Oct 2015, 11:44

Its more efficient to gather only 2 res because you only need two market upgrades.

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 04 Oct 2015, 12:04

It's more that you often use wood crates to pay the wood of pikes/bows

benj89 · Post by **benj89** » 04 Oct 2015, 13:52

mainly because of cover mod (was argued by spadel some time ago and pretty sure hes right) and the fact you dont have cav and need fast inf to catch raids

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 04 Oct 2015, 13:59

Pikes are better than musks in some aspects aswell I think.

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 14:24

jerom wrote:Pikes are better than musks in some aspects aswell I think.

like siege? or on low food thats ok

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 14:24

jerom wrote:Its more efficient to gather only 2 res because you only need two market upgrades.

You still gather coin faster than wood ^^

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 14:26

kaiserklein wrote:It''s more that you often use wood crates to pay the wood of pikes/bows

You can just send 700c as second shipment the extra pop space you need you will get from a house which you can build from 200w u will save on pikes. you are also getting 1 extra vill(as brit)

momuuu · Post by **momuuu** » 04 Oct 2015, 14:29

princeofcarthage wrote:
jerom wrote:Pikes are better than musks in some aspects aswell I think.
like siege? or on low food thats ok

more speed more siege more dps vs cav. Theyre not that bad tbh.

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 14:40

jerom wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:like siege? or on low food thats ok
more speed more siege more dps vs cav. Theyre not that bad tbh.

They are not bad but for the same cost you are getting a better unit^^

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 04 Oct 2015, 15:16

Pikes cost less, and they are produced in part from the wood crates. All you want anyway is mass as many lbows as possible and just barely enough anticav to not lose. It doesn't really matter how good the secondary unit is because its job is just to let lbows stand and fire.

princeofcarthage · Post by **princeofcarthage** » 04 Oct 2015, 15:26

garja wrote:Pikes cost less, and they are produced in part from the wood crates. All you want anyway is mass as many lbows as possible and just barely enough anticav to not lose. It doesn''t really matter how good the secondary unit is because its job is just to let lbows stand and fire.

without any market up pike cost 3 food less in absolute value. You can just easily send 700c and follow it up with 600w you are saving more than 200 wood which gives you house/settler/tp.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 04 Oct 2015, 16:06

As I said pikes are produced from the wood crates which are also used for the manors. You can't use the gold crate for manors and 700g is overkill anyway for a unit that cost 3:1 food gold. You should have all vills on food to utilize the gold crates properly which ofc is not the case because you're also manor booming.
And as pointed out anyway pikes do their job better for their cost. Lbow/musk is a quality combo, something that you may want later in the game.

DerMaxinator · Post by **DerMaxinator** » 04 Oct 2015, 16:25

garja wrote:As I said pikes are produced from the wood crates which are also used for the manors. You can''t use the gold crate for manors and 700g is overkill anyway for a unit that cost 3:1 food gold. You should have all vills on food to utilize the gold crates properly which ofc is not the case because you''re also manor booming.
And as pointed out anyway pikes do their job better for their cost. Lbow/musk is a quality combo, something that you may want later in the game.

I always find it hard to do a lb/musk early game, because you just need to manage all three resources instead of one, and then I never know whether to cut the villies from food or wood, which i then send to gold.

S_I_D · Post by **S_I_D** » 05 Oct 2015, 05:25

I've always prefered musk huss over xbow/lb pike. I prefer the mobility of the cav and being able to raid while still dealing with opponents army. I find that most people i vs that try xbow pike just lose bc they dont micro right. lb pike should beat musk huss but I just never really cared to make lb if im not defending lol. I like never use xbow and i only ever mix in pike if i need some units to basically just stay in cover mode, absorb ranged damage, and die lol. I love dops though. I would use dops forever. Even if I was in a game that i was losing id still prob make dops just bc they are dops. <'---commitment. ')

MCJim · Post by **MCJim** » 05 Oct 2015, 10:36

deleted_user wrote:since i hear discussins about musk huss vs xbow pike lately.. i dedice to make this post do you think which is better? and why?

Learn the Samwise built and try to get out 5/5 (musk/huss)

Kaiserklein · Post by **Kaiserklein** » 05 Oct 2015, 11:15

mcjim wrote:
deleted_user wrote:since i hear discussins about musk huss vs xbow pike lately.. i dedice to make this post do you think which is better? and why?
Learn the Samwise built and try to get out 5/5 (musk/huss)

If you pay for steel traps, and unless you get heavy treasures, you cant really do that

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » 05 Oct 2015, 12:23

kaiserklein wrote:
mcjim wrote: Learn the Samwise built and try to get out 5/5 (musk/huss)
If you pay for steel traps, and unless you get heavy treasures, you cant really do that

[span]You can get at least 3 musks and 5 huss every game tho, and 5 huss with 3 musk behind them will annihilate 5 pike and 5 bows [/span]

ESOC

Top Live Streams

Legacy AoE3