Spain matchups?

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Spain matchups?

Post by Jaeger »

I know there are a lot of variations you can do. For example, I remember @umeu saying that vs french you go 2 rax skirms and ship rods, vs russia when they rush you you make musk not skirm, etc. What should you do in specific matchups?
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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

3v 700c 700w 8 pike all in every single game

Source: Smackdown.
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Post by forgrin »

It'd be hilarious to get piro on smackdown.
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Post by _H2O »

I always do the same build but I don't think many people have caught onto it. I really like rod skirm on Spain right now in mid fort.
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Post by Jaeger »

h2o wrote:I always do the same build but I don''t think many people have caught onto it. I really like rod skirm on Spain right now in mid fort.
700g 700w 5v 2 falcs 12 pike 1k wood? I get that rods have upgrade cards but arent goons just better units? After I lose my falcs vs age 2 it feels hard to beat musk huss type with skirm rod, but with goons its much easier. Plus you have to pay for vet upgrade :/
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Post by _H2O »

You can't really keep up on goon count easily. You have to pay 200 wood for stable as well so vet is kinda only 200 gold. You should not lose cannons to age 2 without costing them so muh you win the game.

I also do 5 huss before 1k wood if it feels right.

Musk huss also loses hard to skim rod if you kite
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Don't you send 5v before 700w? I do it and it works very well, 10 musk are quite useless in a rod/skirm compo.
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Post by yemshi »

Why don't you train 10 rods then?
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

You want skirms because you can ship rods.
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Post by Jaeger »

h2o wrote:You can''t really keep up on goon count easily. You have to pay 200 wood for stable as well so vet is kinda only 200 gold. You should not lose cannons to age 2 without costing them so muh you win the game.

I also do 5 huss before 1k wood if it feels right.

Musk huss also loses hard to skim rod if you kite
So then how do you win as british vs spain? I think ff loses as well as age 2
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Post by Jaeger »

diarouga wrote:You want skirms because you can ship rods.
You need more than 8 rods, and I think you also kindda wanna ship cav and not have to ship 12 pike 10 pike all the time
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Post by thebritish »

ovi12 wrote:
h2o wrote:You cant really keep up on goon count easily. You have to pay 200 wood for stable as well so vet is kinda only 200 gold. You should not lose cannons to age 2 without costing them so muh you win the game.

I also do 5 huss before 1k wood if it feels right.

Musk huss also loses hard to skim rod if you kite
So then how do you win as british vs spain? I think ff loses as well as age 2
You dont and cant win


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Experience[/spoiler]
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Post by edeholland »

thebritish wrote:
ovi12 wrote:So then how do you win as british vs spain? I think ff loses as well as age 2
You dont and cant win


[spoiler]{Source}
Experience[/spoiler]
Brits can totally win spain. I usually go musk huss in age 2. I find lb/pike awkward vs lancers. A few lb can help against falcs though.
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
h2o wrote:You cant really keep up on goon count easily. You have to pay 200 wood for stable as well so vet is kinda only 200 gold. You should not lose cannons to age 2 without costing them so muh you win the game.

I also do 5 huss before 1k wood if it feels right.

Musk huss also loses hard to skim rod if you kite
So then how do you win as british vs spain? I think ff loses as well as age 2

Theres a game on rts sanctuary where h2o plays brit vs goongoons spain. He won with a ff.
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Post by thebritish »

edeholland wrote:
thebritish wrote:You dont and cant win


[spoiler]{Source}
Experience[/spoiler]
Brits can totally win spain. I usually go musk huss in age 2. I find lb/pike awkward vs lancers. A few lb can help against falcs though.
They can just use skirmishers vs musks and add rodeleros for your cavalry and when their falconets come, it will be hard to make a good trade for their falconets. I dont brits can win unless they do timing pike rush and destroy the spanish TC before they age.
If they can,
Is it better to do a naked FF or semi cav/semi musk F vs them? (cav can be used for raiding)
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Post by Wuangaga »

thebritish wrote:
edeholland wrote:Brits can totally win spain. I usually go musk huss in age 2. I find lb/pike awkward vs lancers. A few lb can help against falcs though.
They can just use skirmishers vs musks and add rodeleros for your cavalry and when their falconets come, it will be hard to make a good trade for their falconets. I dont brits can win unless they do timing pike rush and destroy the spanish TC before they age.
If they can,
Is it better to do a naked FF or semi cav/semi musk F vs them? (cav can be used for raiding)
Just stay age 2 and mass musk/huss as edeholland said, youll have more units if you push right after he ages and just overwhelm him.
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Post by Jaeger »

wuangaga wrote:
thebritish wrote:They can just use skirmishers vs musks and add rodeleros for your cavalry and when their falconets come, it will be hard to make a good trade for their falconets. I dont brits can win unless they do timing pike rush and destroy the spanish TC before they age.
If they can,
Is it better to do a naked FF or semi cav/semi musk F vs them? (cav can be used for raiding)
Just stay age 2 and mass musk/huss as edeholland said, youll have more units if you push right after he ages and just overwhelm him.
No, I hate when everybody underestimates spain. If youre gonna go age 2, your best chance is to wait for him to come to you and surround him from many sides and hope he messes up micro.
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Post by thebritish »

wuangaga wrote:
thebritish wrote:They can just use skirmishers vs musks and add rodeleros for your cavalry and when their falconets come, it will be hard to make a good trade for their falconets. I dont brits can win unless they do timing pike rush and destroy the spanish TC before they age.
If they can,
Is it better to do a naked FF or semi cav/semi musk F vs them? (cav can be used for raiding)
Just stay age 2 and mass musk/huss as edeholland said, youll have more units if you push right after he ages and just overwhelm him.
umm, why after he ages?
And should i raid him before my push?
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Post by Wuangaga »

ovi12 wrote:
wuangaga wrote:Just stay age 2 and mass musk/huss as edeholland said, youll have more units if you push right after he ages and just overwhelm him.
No, I hate when everybody underestimates spain. If youre gonna go age 2, your best chance is to wait for him to come to you and surround him from many sides and hope he messes up micro.
Hmm, hoping is generally not a good thing, i just wanted to make clear to play age 2 as brits i dont really know the match up. I guess youre right though dogs, ageup units and the units you made during transition do add up with the shipment youre gonna send.
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Post by Garja »

ovi12 wrote:
diarouga wrote:You want skirms because you can ship rods.
You need more than 8 rods, and I think you also kindda wanna ship cav and not have to ship 12 pike 10 pike all the time
To be fair you want to ship those cards as theyre the best you have (10 pikes not really but 12 is ok). And more importantly you want to make skirms only because you dont have cards of them. You really dont lack anticav cards as Spain.
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Post by yurashic »

How do you beat Spain as Britain? Mass musk huss, use vills to kill cannons and faceroll Spain with 25 villager lead.
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Post by yurashic »

ovi12 wrote:I know there are a lot of variations you can do. For example, I remember?@umeu saying that vs french you go 2 rax skirms and ship rods, vs russia when they rush you you make musk not skirm, etc. What should you do in specific matchups?



I only use 3 strategies as Spain.

15->17 v, 700 gold, 700 wood, 8 pikemen or church card or 600 gold for Swiss pikemen - standard ff.

16->19 v, early market with any start, 700 gold, 700 wood (market upgrades, barracks) 5 v 1000 w (houses, stable, vet rod, maybe second rax) - eco ff against Portugal and on defensive maps.

16 v 500 f age, 700 wood, 600 wood, 700 food, 8 pikemen - rush with crossbowmen and pikemen against Sioux.
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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

yurashic wrote:
ovi12 wrote:I know there are a lot of variations you can do. For example, I remember @umeu saying that vs french you go 2 rax skirms and ship rods, vs russia when they rush you you make musk not skirm, etc. What should you do in specific matchups?

I only use 3 strategies as Spain.

15->'17 v, 700 gold, 700 wood, 8 pikemen or church card or 600 gold for Swiss pikemen - standard ff.

16->'19 v, early market with any start, 700 gold, 700 wood (market upgrades, barracks) 5 v 1000 w (houses, stable, vet rod, maybe second rax) - eco ff against Portugal and on defensive maps.

16 v 500 f age, 700 wood, 600 wood, 700 food, 8 pikemen - rush with crossbowmen and pikemen against Sioux.
Why would you play defensive against ports if you win early fortress? Ports win in mid to late fortress, but they cant defend an aggressive spain FF
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Post by yurashic »

bramboy wrote:
yurashic wrote:I only use 3 strategies as Spain.

15->17 v, 700 gold, 700 wood, 8 pikemen or church card or 600 gold for Swiss pikemen - standard ff.

16->19 v, early market with any start, 700 gold, 700 wood (market upgrades, barracks) 5 v 1000 w (houses, stable, vet rod, maybe second rax) - eco ff against Portugal and on defensive maps.

16 v 500 f age, 700 wood, 600 wood, 700 food, 8 pikemen - rush with crossbowmen and pikemen against Sioux.
Why would you play defensive against ports if you win early fortress? Ports win in mid to late fortress, but they cant defend an aggressive spain FF?



You played 1 game in smackdown and think that if you won, the matchup goes like that.

Master Dutch has sent 300 wood for a tp and spice trade against an aggressive Spanish ff - real GoodSpeeds brother, that is classic GoodSpeed build - go too eco heavy and die. Imagine aging with 500 food to age on time and sending 700 wood and 5 goons instead of useless 300 wood and spice trade. A good Portuguese player would have done things differently and won your early aggression, because you cant kill 3 TCs at 8 min. TC fire kills cannons and goons beat all your shipments.

It is much better to go for more eco and while they are preparing for aggression just outmass and contain.
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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

yurashic wrote:
bramboy wrote:Why would you play defensive against ports if you win early fortress? Ports win in mid to late fortress, but they cant defend an aggressive spain FF

You played 1 game in smackdown and think that if you won, the matchup goes like that.

Master Dutch has sent 300 wood for a tp and spice trade against an aggressive Spanish ff - real GoodSpeeds brother, that is classic Goodspeed build - go too eco heavy and die. A good Portuguese player would have had done things differently and won your early aggression, because you cant kill 3 TCs at 8 min. TC fire kills cannons and goons beat all your shipments.

It is much better to go for more eco and while they are preparing for aggression just outmass and contain.
Ive played that matchup multiple times and I dont see how ports can defend that. The 18 pikes + 10 musk arrive at 7:15-7:45 which is followed by 2 falcs and 5 skirm 30 seconds later. If you just continue to make skirmishers there is nothing ports can do.

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