Sioux discussion

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Apr 2015, 00:04

Obviously lol, but the twc civs have this unit card adv because no eco ups and worse unit ups

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Apr 2015, 06:46

Btw teepees are op. I only wished they were mobile (but only give bonus when stationary) the bonus is insane, 10% for 50 wood, and it stacks...

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 07 Apr 2015, 07:41

umeu wrote:Btw teepees are op. I only wished they were mobile (but only give bonus when stationary) the bonus is insane, 10% for 50 wood, and it stacks...

Yeah when I said the suck, I just meant that they have very little viability in a competitive game. Because as they are, where would you really want to build them? It''d have to be at a mid-way point like a fort, or maybe heavily offensive right outside of the enemy TC with a war hut or 2. But that would either be easily scouted, or require you to defend the area while constructing them. And that could be counter-productive seeing all the damage you''re taking while constructing something that increases your life.

You could also turtle with them to give your vills more HP, and possibly get away with producing war hut units in that vicinity (+healers!) but when you have to go beyond your TP to gather resources, you''re leaving behind a large economic waste at that point. I do like the arsenal shipment for tipis at times.

If they had a pack/unpack function then they''d be way more viable. But you really have to pick where you''re laying them out to treat them like more of a long-term investment.

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 07 Apr 2015, 08:01

Ok these are a couple of my preferred Sioux decks though I've done way more experimentation than this. I doubt my decks are standard by any means. But for me shipments are more about having options available than thinking I'm going to be able to send all my cards by the end of a match.

The first deck is an emphasis on dog soldiers with some other military support and econ.

The 2nd deck is an emphasis on outlaw shipments to sort of be used like minutemen shipments with more versatility.

Oh yeah and in the dog soldier deck, in Age 3, it's the axe rider with 9 buffalo shipment, the war clubs come with 500 wood, and the wakinas come with 2 war huts.

Good ol Ivan · Post by **Good ol Ivan** » 07 Apr 2015, 08:17

Focus on dog soldiers?
I don't even...
They are pretty cool and all but they aren't really... viable.
Wood/gold trickle is kinda useless (3 vills > trickle).
Pioneers is also a pretty fucking weird card.

Also having 1000 wood is a must for me because it allows an additional TC and/or military upgrades.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 07 Apr 2015, 09:09

Ye the teepees are for stationary fights, best for warhut units, and since theyre not viable for sioux, teepees arent either. Otherwise sioux could do a pretty good turtle + boom maybe, sending bison, make 3 tcs and then vill dance! Max out 99 vils at 15 mins lol. Just wild speculation. Too bad siouxs design is undone by poor unit balancing. And i feel they need 1 more unit since tashunke are retarded, dogs cant be trained, so they only have 6 units compared to the amount other civs can make, this is pretty low. If tashunke would be turned into a oprix type cav, or maybe cuir, this would be nice. The sioux would have uhlan/hussar allround cav, a trample unit and an infantry killer.

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 07 Apr 2015, 11:22

it just makes me think Ensemble Studios designed Sioux to be half turtley, half raid just because of how tipis work. Also since Sioux can't build walls. You make a "spread" of tipis around war huts, then just make sure your war hut units never wander off too far from the tipi cluster. Have medicine men in the back to heal after or in-between fights (if you're microing a lot) and it could work. It's just that there's no map that really caters to this type of play.

@Ivan, I like sending dog soldiers because they have a lot of HP and are cavalry. They're my 2nd-rate mameluke shipments I get in small doses for free (well minus the fact that they're shipments). Having any amount of dog soldiers in your cavalry makes your cavalry overall stronger. If I get enough cav I usually separate my control groups between melee (AR/Dog/hero) and ranged (bow/musket riders), but make sure neither group is too far from the other.

I do have 1000 wood card, but haven't made up my mind about it. I just go for the 1000 gold for the war clubs + 500 wood shipment as an exchange.

I like the wood/gold trickle in case there isn't a lot of gold or wood near my base, or I don't want to invest in market upgrades til later. Just having the consistent resource trickle helps me feel secure about map layouts and raids. I don't use it very often. Same with pioneers. They're security cards.

Good ol Ivan · Post by **Good ol Ivan** » 07 Apr 2015, 11:36

Ye but that 2nd age shipment to boost Dog soldiers still seems off cuz you cant train em anyways.
Pioneers is useless, and the trickle card is overshadowed by 3 villies.
Even if you dont have a 2nd coin mine next to you base, you should be agressive because you are sioux, hence 3/4 villies are better options, and so is trade route control - the trickle is very fucking small anyway.

And 1000 wood is pretty much a must.

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 07 Apr 2015, 14:56

but technically I am training dog soldiers by using XP to ship them. If I upgrade hunts enough I could even put more vills on the firepit for more XP gain. Also the market big button can pretty much be an exchange for 7 dog soldiers in age 3 without using the dog soldier big button.

Anyway, you know what you're talking about, so I'll restate, I only send maybe half my cards in any given match.

divine_moon · Post by **divine_moon** » 10 Apr 2015, 01:50

been having a rollicking time with the sioux in my low ranked matches

')

maaybe we should add some other ranks? xbowman is (facepalm)

divine_moon · Post by **divine_moon** » 14 Apr 2015, 06:36

tried a fair bit of sioux games in the past week &' half.. (i think 'cept 1 where i ended up using the germs.)...

just not able to use them well enough :/

once people get the hint that you're gonna' raid them with cav they tend to wall up

')

then on it's been downhill with the sioux, breaching a wall &' siege-ing a town (usually ranged infantry behind walls )seems impossible. tips please?

EDIT:

Are ff's viable with the sioux?

Nymphomaniac · Post by **Nymphomaniac** » 14 Apr 2015, 06:58

divinemoon wrote:Are ff''s viable with the sioux?

Not really a sioux player, but I have seen all OP sioux players doing semi-ff or sometimes even straight ff.

matuiss2 · Post by **matuiss2** » 14 Apr 2015, 07:27

I played against all levels of players as sioux and the high levels ones always wall(they use mostly japan too XD)....

What can u do vs that is ff(best bet against that)but if u decide to go colonial make a fireplace, eco up then go fortress and attack before his eco gets way too much ahead of yours, he will not attack anytime soon so you have time and your army will always be stronger than any other civs army at early fortress(with the fireplace ofc, remember to switch between combat boost and siege boost given the situation).

About the ff...yeah is viable...but dont do that vs a fast civ...its just suicide, you dont have the tower that usually a ff player age up with, also you dont have any real building to delay a rush like most of the other civs (they have houses and the outpost that could delay the siege to the tc)....in other words just ff vs japan, china and some ports.....if you gonna ff always scout to be sure that the other player will not rush you....coz if he does you will lose, so change the strat to a colonial mass as soon as identify that. You can do ff safely in maps like siberia and texas tho...but those are exeptions.

rsy · Post by **rsy** » 06 May 2015, 22:42

Is Sioux better than ottomans?
I feel like if otto does straight ff Sioux can do straight ff as well with the anti Jan anti falc rifle riders and if he straight up does a Jan a bus then 10 bow riders 4 axe riders and 2 dogs just beat that up

Post by **_H2O** » 07 May 2015, 04:05

FYI I played suiox last week I have new builds lol

edehollandsbrother · Post by **edehollandsbrother** » 07 May 2015, 07:59

h2o wrote:FYI I played suiox last week I have new builds lol

Could you briefly share some of them?

Post by **_H2O** » 07 May 2015, 08:52

One of them is 3 vil 4 vil 700 gold 700 wood. Age up with 400 wood make fp and market ups while aging. 400 wood is 2nd tp and stable. Make 2-3 cav or bow rider then age up.

700 woods is warhut and two vet upgrades.

Vs Japan axe rider wakina with RR shipments is good.

RR are expensive but worth shipping

Suiox have an exp problem in general.

Another build:

3 vil 4 cav 2 dogs make 10 bow riders and attack. While aging only do market ups. Make tp and stable with 400. After the cav stuff you can either send 700 gold and age or send 4 vil.

Vs sepoy rush (havnt refined)

3 vil 4 cav, 700 wood, 700 gold (maybe the crates switch)

Instead of making tp and market make a wahut and 5 cetan and stable. Then make 5 bow rider too. Should have 5 cetan 5 bows and 4 cav and crush the 12 sepoy. Then with 700 wood build 2 tps and get market upgrsdes. 700 gold to age. Make 5-15 br total whatever feels right and try to get up while raidng.

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 08 May 2015, 09:58

What do you think of the 14 wakina + hp upgrade for 1000c? Same for the 7 axe or 6 rr?

Post by **_H2O** » 08 May 2015, 10:42

Haven't sent them yet in a game I could lose. The axe rider one could be good

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 08 May 2015, 13:42

h2o wrote:Suiox have an exp problem in general.

That''s one reason I like sending the 2 farms in age 2 as my 2nd or 3rd shipment. Building costly infrastructure helps boost XP plus the hunt upgrades makes the farm act like an advanced market. The XP in building both farms almost gets you enough to send another shipment right afterward (hello 700 wood). I think it''s better than having laid down a TP and spending your own wood for that. It''s like a TP + 1 trade travois rotation that gives you hunt upgrades.

Also, I learned not too long ago that CDBs have a range resist of 20% I think? Would a bow rider based gameplan be good vs French considering this? Seems like a cetan/axe rider combo would be more effective in dealing with French. I knew settler wagons have ranged resist, but BR vs Uhlan is too good to refuse. Sioux vs French/German I don''t know if I''ve ever seen.

Garja · Post by **Garja** » 08 May 2015, 14:09

2 farms isn't a viable option in 1v1. It also takes a precious spot in the age2 grid.

Yes BR are not that great vs French. Still gives you some control over the game. Axe semi makes more sense indeed. And it has been the standard for ages in fact.

Yes, 1000g cards are good, they extend your already pretty long rack of unit shipments. I use wakina+hp and axe AR+hp ones.

divine_moon · Post by **divine_moon** » 08 May 2015, 14:20

cowhax wrote:
h2o wrote:Suiox have an exp problem in general.

Thats one reason I like sending the 2 farms in age 2 as my 2nd or 3rd shipment. Building costly infrastructure helps boost XP plus the hunt upgrades makes the farm act like an advanced market. The XP in building both farms almost gets you enough to send another shipment right afterward (hello 700 wood). I think its better than having laid down a TP and spending your own wood for that. Its like a TP + 1 trade travois rotation that gives you hunt upgrades.

Also, I learned not too long ago that CDBs have a range resist of 20% I think? Would a bow rider based gameplan be good vs French considering this? Seems like a cetan/axe rider combo would be more effective in dealing with French. I knew settler wagons have ranged resist, but BR vs Uhlan is too good to refuse. Sioux vs French/German I dont know if Ive ever seen.

very keep to know your build against the french &' brits, theyre the ones i struggle the most with ...
Like u said the damn CDBs have RR, which makes them incredibly hard to kill &' with the market upgrades theyre pretty indestructible :O

Otto V Sioux are quite fun matchups at my level tbh

deleted_user0 · Post by **deleted_user0** » 08 May 2015, 15:45

40% rr on cdb

cowhax · Post by **cowhax** » 08 May 2015, 19:38

garja wrote:2 farms isn''t a viable option in 1v1. It also takes a precious spot in the age2 grid.

Yes BR are not that great vs French. Still gives you some control over the game. Axe semi makes more sense indeed. And it has been the standard for ages in fact.

Yes, 1000g cards are good, they extend your already pretty long rack of unit shipments. I use wakina+hp and axe AR+hp ones.

I don''t know what''s so improbable about 2 farms in 1v1. It pays back some of the XP used to ship and grants you beefy hunt upgrades, therefore allowing you to task villagers on something else besides hunt if you want. And even the farm big button is good if/when you can afford it. Is it just the nature of the War Chief civs to be more rush than other civs are allowed to be? Like it''s not standard, but too often does it seem like there''s only 1 reliable build order for any of the civs, and I just haven''t been convinced yet. Maybe that could be a cool video series to showcase bad build orders.. kind of like Mythbusters.

@umeu thanks for the correction. 40% is insane.

Papist · Post by **Papist** » 08 May 2015, 21:32

If you get to the point where you have to send farms, you have already lost. You should have won the game or at least have total hunt control by that point.

ESOC

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