AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
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- Skirmisher
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Mar 28, 2015
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Hi
A few years ago a saw at the agecommunity forum a thread were someone listed every cov and their counter civ( which you should use to beat the enemy civ )
Iroquoi > Osmans (just an example tho)
Osmans > xxxx
Xxxx > yyyy
And so on..
So i wasnt able to find it again so i ask you if some one could maybe tell us what we should pick against what.. For me and for other 'noobs'.. i think this would help some people who are new to get into the game
--> Is every MU influenced by the map?
A few years ago a saw at the agecommunity forum a thread were someone listed every cov and their counter civ( which you should use to beat the enemy civ )
Iroquoi > Osmans (just an example tho)
Osmans > xxxx
Xxxx > yyyy
And so on..
So i wasnt able to find it again so i ask you if some one could maybe tell us what we should pick against what.. For me and for other 'noobs'.. i think this would help some people who are new to get into the game
--> Is every MU influenced by the map?
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
It's kindda hard to define a counterciv, so I'm just gonna list the civs from strongest to weakest imo, and with a few exceptions, you can just go down the list to detremine which civ beats which civs.
1) Iro
2) Otto
3) Aztec
4) British
5) India
6) France
7) Japan
8) Germany
9) China
10) Spain
11) Dutch
12) Portugese
13) Sioux
14) Russia
Some exceptions:
a) Aztec looses to Germany
b) Japan vs China can be close
c) Spain vs French and Germany MIGHT be close (not sure)
d) Sioux can potentially win vs almost anyone if the other players makes certain mistakes or the map is bad.
The strength of some civs can vary drastically depending on map. Some of these civs are Brit, Sioux, India, Japan, Portugese.
1) Iro
2) Otto
3) Aztec
4) British
5) India
6) France
7) Japan
8) Germany
9) China
10) Spain
11) Dutch
12) Portugese
13) Sioux
14) Russia
Some exceptions:
a) Aztec looses to Germany
b) Japan vs China can be close
c) Spain vs French and Germany MIGHT be close (not sure)
d) Sioux can potentially win vs almost anyone if the other players makes certain mistakes or the map is bad.
The strength of some civs can vary drastically depending on map. Some of these civs are Brit, Sioux, India, Japan, Portugese.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Civs-Best counters (all based on civ charts on high PR levels) Ill exclude ottos and iros for counters for obvious reasons.
Brits-India----35% Win Rate against then....(weird since i heard india have trouble against brits but ok)
Dutch-Sioux----33% WR
France-China----37% WR (weird for me...can someone explain too me why france sux against china?)
Germans-Sioux----37% WR
Ottos-Sioux----43%WR
Ports-Japan----30% WR(makes sence since ports cant really preassure japs boom without fucking his own eco)
Russia-Germans----43%WR(makes sense since russia sux against cav)
Spain-India----34%WR(tbh, they suck vs everybody exept ducth for some reason)
Aztecs-India----44%WR
Iroques-Sioux----47%WR(someone has to explain me that...how sioux beat iros? LOL)
Sioux-Japan-----39WR%(make sense sioux survive by raiding and is almost impossible to raid a good japanese player)
China-Sioux----41WR%
India-China---52WR% this op civ have no counters in high level LOL, china is the one who comes the closest((exept iros)) for some reason)
Japan-India---43%
Brits-India----35% Win Rate against then....(weird since i heard india have trouble against brits but ok)
Dutch-Sioux----33% WR
France-China----37% WR (weird for me...can someone explain too me why france sux against china?)
Germans-Sioux----37% WR
Ottos-Sioux----43%WR
Ports-Japan----30% WR(makes sence since ports cant really preassure japs boom without fucking his own eco)
Russia-Germans----43%WR(makes sense since russia sux against cav)
Spain-India----34%WR(tbh, they suck vs everybody exept ducth for some reason)
Aztecs-India----44%WR
Iroques-Sioux----47%WR(someone has to explain me that...how sioux beat iros? LOL)
Sioux-Japan-----39WR%(make sense sioux survive by raiding and is almost impossible to raid a good japanese player)
China-Sioux----41WR%
India-China---52WR% this op civ have no counters in high level LOL, china is the one who comes the closest((exept iros)) for some reason)
Japan-India---43%
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
I wouldn't go by Matuiss's chart, some of the statistics are REALLY skewed, maybe because of bad maps on qs.
1) Brits should have more than 50% win vs India
2) Dutch should have more wins vs sioux
3) France ANNIHILATES China
4) Germany should have more than 50% win
5) Otto destroys Sioux
6) This should really be 0%
7) Russia vs Germany should be wayy lower
8) Not sure about this
9) Seems ok
10) Sioux has no chance
11) Ditto
12) China should win a lot more than that I tihnk
13) Needs2b 100%
14) Way too high
1) Brits should have more than 50% win vs India
2) Dutch should have more wins vs sioux
3) France ANNIHILATES China
4) Germany should have more than 50% win
5) Otto destroys Sioux
6) This should really be 0%
7) Russia vs Germany should be wayy lower
8) Not sure about this
9) Seems ok
10) Sioux has no chance
11) Ditto
12) China should win a lot more than that I tihnk
13) Needs2b 100%
14) Way too high
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Well, the stats seemed a little strange to me too but what i did is take the high PR players civ charts from the simple elo ladder site and exclude the 2 op civs as counters.
You guys can check for yourselves :
http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/stats?t=age3ySP1v1
But it was updated last in late 2013, so i wouldnt count that as very reliable tho.
You guys can check for yourselves :
http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/stats?t=age3ySP1v1
But it was updated last in late 2013, so i wouldnt count that as very reliable tho.
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- Jaeger
- Posts: 3680
- Joined: Feb 21, 2015
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Aoe is not a science. Therefore all that has been said might be totally wrong.
Here is my opinion :
France vs China is even.
Otto doesn't necessarily beat sioux.
As you said, these stats aren't very reliable.
Here is my opinion :
France vs China is even.
Otto doesn't necessarily beat sioux.
As you said, these stats aren't very reliable.
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
[quote author="@matuiss2" timestamp="1428703006" source="/post/3769/thread"]Civs-Best counters (all based on civ charts on high PR levels) Ill exclude ottos and iros for counters for obvious reasons.
Brits-India----35% Win Rate against then....(weird since i heard india have trouble against brits but ok)
Dutch-Sioux----33% WR
France-China----37% WR (weird for me...can someone explain too me why france sux against china?)
Germans-Sioux----37% WR
Ottos-Sioux----43%WR
Ports-Japan----30% WR(makes sence since ports cant really preassure japs boom without fucking his own eco)
Russia-Germans----43%WR(makes sense since russia sux against cav)
Spain-India----34%WR(tbh, they suck vs everybody exept ducth for some reason)
Aztecs-India----44%WR
Iroques-Sioux----47%WR(someone has to explain me that...how sioux beat iros? LOL)
Sioux-Japan-----39WR%(make sense sioux survive by raiding and is almost impossible to raid a good japanese player)
China-Sioux----41WR%
India-China---52WR% this op civ have no counters in high level LOL, china is the one who comes the closest((exept iros)) for some reason)
Japan-India---43%
[/quote]
I assume you are quoting the stats from simple elo site in which case they're essentially flawed in two ways:
1. standard map pool is full of "bad" maps. Even "good" maps are not consistent enough with resource placement. In quicksearch you can't even resign and replay.
2. those stats include games from people from all ranks which means that subtle ways to deal with a certain civ are not often not used because the knowledge on lower ranks is limited.
In regard to the second point I can try explaining the MUs you quoted.
* Brits-India
India has a low eco rush (10/10) which appear to be good at lower levels and with bad maps. Brits on the other hands needs lot of hunts to be competitive. Also need defender skills that again lower ranked players often lack. India also have some other abusable mechanics that are certainly more noob friendly than the typical brit gameplay.
* Dutch-Sioux
Dutch sioux is to be fair an imba MU at any level on pretty much any map. Mostly because sioux can do the usual lame BR lamage and dutch have neither musks nor cheap spammable ranged inf. They might reach the fortress age but not unharmed. And even there skirm ruyter don't really beat a mass of BRs that is twice the size of the Dutch army.
* France-China
This MU kinda highlights the fact that French need lot of res to get rolling and once again standard maps are not great in that regard. China FF on the other hand get an insane amount of stuff for free (cards+consulate+2 wonders+age up units+monk and disciples, etc.). And the fact that they often have all 4 types of units at the same time doesn't help either, because it means French also need a balanced army all the time. On a fair map French win comfortably I think, on RE maps not so much.
* Germany-Sioux
Again no musks, also no tower age up and on top of that no goons. Some people like to have Germans vs Sioux tho. Personally I don't think it is a totally impossible MU. Germany have an answer to pretty much everything Sioux can pull off. Probably tho BR/AR is too much for them.
* Otto-Sioux
Long time imba MU according to the majority of players. Otto army is pretty non mobile, and they dont have a real counter to goon type units in age2. Even jans do worse than standard muskets on that regard. They don't have goons either. Still solid otto play with a timing can work vs Sioux.
* Ports-Japan
Well Ports are just weak overall and can't properly counter Japan which means Japan just easily reach the point where they win by default. Semi creative semi FF gives port some chances if the jap player isn't very aknowledged but otherwise is truly an impossible MU.
* Russia-German
As you said Russia is supposed to sux vs cav so what most German players do is to make 100% ulhans and chase any Russian unit trying to smash them before Russia can get a decent mass. Then again Russia don't really sux vs cav but their units are kinda vulnerable to that early on. Also Russia has troubles punishing semi FFs. That's in the popular belief atleast.
* Spain-India
Same thing as Ports vs Jap with in addition India countering the FF with sepoy rush, atleast at lower levels.
* Aztecs-India
Aztecs have trashy units early on, especially if microed poorly. What most low rank players do is to execute some poor rush which is indeed gonna fail vs India. The latter on the other hand as great units and a very easy sepoy rush which at low levels is usually enough to do the trick.
* Iro-Sioux
This is the emblem of quicksearch lamage. Iro lamers rush carelessly, and Sioux lamers punish that with BR, TC fire and unit cards, included the infamous 3 grizzly card. Then it is usual BR raiding fest just to remember everyone that hunt placement on RE maps is suxor more often than not.
* Sioux-Japan
Sioux love to raid. Japan is virtually unraidable. Sioux lamers make BR. Ashi and Yumi counter BR. Cav need open spaces to work well. Japan can abuse walls to the next level.
*China-Sioux
See Russia vs Germans. And along the same lines China doesn't really sux vs cav but people keep wasting their army being not careful enough. However, that is due to poor resources in many cases.
* India-China
Kinda interesting one. I'm not very familiar with this MU but at first glance I'd say it's not that bad. That is unless sepoy rush or semi FF do the trick once again for India.
*Japan-India
See Brits-India but to a lesser extent.
EDIT: just noticed you filtered the results for high PR (I assume PR30+). Still the point of people playing without much knowledge reamains.
Brits-India----35% Win Rate against then....(weird since i heard india have trouble against brits but ok)
Dutch-Sioux----33% WR
France-China----37% WR (weird for me...can someone explain too me why france sux against china?)
Germans-Sioux----37% WR
Ottos-Sioux----43%WR
Ports-Japan----30% WR(makes sence since ports cant really preassure japs boom without fucking his own eco)
Russia-Germans----43%WR(makes sense since russia sux against cav)
Spain-India----34%WR(tbh, they suck vs everybody exept ducth for some reason)
Aztecs-India----44%WR
Iroques-Sioux----47%WR(someone has to explain me that...how sioux beat iros? LOL)
Sioux-Japan-----39WR%(make sense sioux survive by raiding and is almost impossible to raid a good japanese player)
China-Sioux----41WR%
India-China---52WR% this op civ have no counters in high level LOL, china is the one who comes the closest((exept iros)) for some reason)
Japan-India---43%
[/quote]
I assume you are quoting the stats from simple elo site in which case they're essentially flawed in two ways:
1. standard map pool is full of "bad" maps. Even "good" maps are not consistent enough with resource placement. In quicksearch you can't even resign and replay.
2. those stats include games from people from all ranks which means that subtle ways to deal with a certain civ are not often not used because the knowledge on lower ranks is limited.
In regard to the second point I can try explaining the MUs you quoted.
* Brits-India
India has a low eco rush (10/10) which appear to be good at lower levels and with bad maps. Brits on the other hands needs lot of hunts to be competitive. Also need defender skills that again lower ranked players often lack. India also have some other abusable mechanics that are certainly more noob friendly than the typical brit gameplay.
* Dutch-Sioux
Dutch sioux is to be fair an imba MU at any level on pretty much any map. Mostly because sioux can do the usual lame BR lamage and dutch have neither musks nor cheap spammable ranged inf. They might reach the fortress age but not unharmed. And even there skirm ruyter don't really beat a mass of BRs that is twice the size of the Dutch army.
* France-China
This MU kinda highlights the fact that French need lot of res to get rolling and once again standard maps are not great in that regard. China FF on the other hand get an insane amount of stuff for free (cards+consulate+2 wonders+age up units+monk and disciples, etc.). And the fact that they often have all 4 types of units at the same time doesn't help either, because it means French also need a balanced army all the time. On a fair map French win comfortably I think, on RE maps not so much.
* Germany-Sioux
Again no musks, also no tower age up and on top of that no goons. Some people like to have Germans vs Sioux tho. Personally I don't think it is a totally impossible MU. Germany have an answer to pretty much everything Sioux can pull off. Probably tho BR/AR is too much for them.
* Otto-Sioux
Long time imba MU according to the majority of players. Otto army is pretty non mobile, and they dont have a real counter to goon type units in age2. Even jans do worse than standard muskets on that regard. They don't have goons either. Still solid otto play with a timing can work vs Sioux.
* Ports-Japan
Well Ports are just weak overall and can't properly counter Japan which means Japan just easily reach the point where they win by default. Semi creative semi FF gives port some chances if the jap player isn't very aknowledged but otherwise is truly an impossible MU.
* Russia-German
As you said Russia is supposed to sux vs cav so what most German players do is to make 100% ulhans and chase any Russian unit trying to smash them before Russia can get a decent mass. Then again Russia don't really sux vs cav but their units are kinda vulnerable to that early on. Also Russia has troubles punishing semi FFs. That's in the popular belief atleast.
* Spain-India
Same thing as Ports vs Jap with in addition India countering the FF with sepoy rush, atleast at lower levels.
* Aztecs-India
Aztecs have trashy units early on, especially if microed poorly. What most low rank players do is to execute some poor rush which is indeed gonna fail vs India. The latter on the other hand as great units and a very easy sepoy rush which at low levels is usually enough to do the trick.
* Iro-Sioux
This is the emblem of quicksearch lamage. Iro lamers rush carelessly, and Sioux lamers punish that with BR, TC fire and unit cards, included the infamous 3 grizzly card. Then it is usual BR raiding fest just to remember everyone that hunt placement on RE maps is suxor more often than not.
* Sioux-Japan
Sioux love to raid. Japan is virtually unraidable. Sioux lamers make BR. Ashi and Yumi counter BR. Cav need open spaces to work well. Japan can abuse walls to the next level.
*China-Sioux
See Russia vs Germans. And along the same lines China doesn't really sux vs cav but people keep wasting their army being not careful enough. However, that is due to poor resources in many cases.
* India-China
Kinda interesting one. I'm not very familiar with this MU but at first glance I'd say it's not that bad. That is unless sepoy rush or semi FF do the trick once again for India.
*Japan-India
See Brits-India but to a lesser extent.
EDIT: just noticed you filtered the results for high PR (I assume PR30+). Still the point of people playing without much knowledge reamains.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Sepoy rush or semi ff indees beat china. Have to be sepoy based semi tho. I tried ghurka once and the cav ships fkd me over. I dont think china has many chances here with ff. 10/10 here can take down a village before first card even has arrived. Just keep killing villages and gg.
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
how would sepoy handle fighting a castle + TC fire? Not that China would build a castle in age 2 but... it seems like they have terrible options to beat pure musket. Maybe ship grenadiers from the french consulate? It''s not the best shipment but could be strong with minute men and vills garrisoned. It''s also probably their best choice for consulate shipments at age 2.umeu wrote:Sepoy rush or semi ff indees beat china. Have to be sepoy based semi tho. I tried ghurka once and the cav ships fkd me over. I dont think china has many chances here with ff. 10/10 here can take down a village before first card even has arrived. Just keep killing villages and gg.
If not that then maybe ship 8 Chu and/or mandarin duck squad? China has a lot of flexibility for their build orders, and only seem dependent on just a couple of cards in any deck since their XP gains are terrible. IMO because of this, China wants to get into fights. They''re only rushed to send the resource cards if they feel it''s critical to FF.
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Port vs japan isn t totally unfair.
In a water map, port wins it.
In a water map, port wins it.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Port doesnt win cuz jap navy is better with shiprange card.
Also china just ages really slow which makes them vulnerable to rushes. If they 700c first then their 2nd ship doesnt come till 6.30 which means sepoys have 1,30 to kill alot of shit. If china sends 8 choku first they hold the rush rather easy if they have the proper sim city, but unless they have sent 9 pike too 4 sowar with eles will mop up the chokus and the arqs upon age. I prefer the semi tho, can still 12 sepoy, just no rush only pressure. Kill a village maybe or force mm. Just get out of there at 7.30 just before arqs pop and dont lose eles (need them to kill arqs if they go fast pressure) and dont lise more than 5 sepoy. It has worked fine so far but only few good china players are left so dunno about optimal play
Also china just ages really slow which makes them vulnerable to rushes. If they 700c first then their 2nd ship doesnt come till 6.30 which means sepoys have 1,30 to kill alot of shit. If china sends 8 choku first they hold the rush rather easy if they have the proper sim city, but unless they have sent 9 pike too 4 sowar with eles will mop up the chokus and the arqs upon age. I prefer the semi tho, can still 12 sepoy, just no rush only pressure. Kill a village maybe or force mm. Just get out of there at 7.30 just before arqs pop and dont lose eles (need them to kill arqs if they go fast pressure) and dont lise more than 5 sepoy. It has worked fine so far but only few good china players are left so dunno about optimal play
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
I would add that if you look at GS's guide there is a table that shows the matchups. This table is pretty accurate. also PR 30 even now is not good enough to figure out who wins a matchup at high level. Back then it was even worse of an indicator.
- [Armag] diarouga
- Ninja
- Posts: 12710
- Joined: Feb 26, 2015
- ESO: diarouga
- Location: France
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
If the port is good, the jap can''t take the water. If the japs sends dock 1st, he just looses it vs a 3-4 cara rush and if he plays with kami, he won''t have the time to make ships or even buils a dock.umeu wrote:Port doesnt win cuz jap navy is better with shiprange card.
Also china just ages really slow which makes them vulnerable to rushes. If they 700c first then their 2nd ship doesnt come till 6.30 which means sepoys have 1,30 to kill alot of shit. If china sends 8 choku first they hold the rush rather easy if they have the proper sim city, but unless they have sent 9 pike too 4 sowar with eles will mop up the chokus and the arqs upon age. I prefer the semi tho, can still 12 sepoy, just no rush only pressure. Kill a village maybe or force mm. Just get out of there at 7.30 just before arqs pop and dont lose eles (need them to kill arqs if they go fast pressure) and dont lise more than 5 sepoy. It has worked fine so far but only few good china players are left so dunno about optimal play
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- Jaeger
- Posts: 3680
- Joined: Feb 21, 2015
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
[/quote]If the port is good, the jap can't take the water. If the japs sends dock 1st, he just looses it vs a 3-4 cara rush and if he plays with kami, he won't have the time to make ships or even buils a dock.[/quote]
unless jap is kynesie aka POSEIDON
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DxomaWx.jpg?1" alt=" "]
unless jap is kynesie aka POSEIDON
[img]http://i.imgur.com/DxomaWx.jpg?1" alt=" "]
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Hm you think Spain beats port? How? If they have hunts in their base, ship CM and build everything behind their TC's there is like NOTHING you can do. If you take down a TC with just cannons you will loose at least 1 cannon to CM TC fire i think and if you go in close with pike you could get trapped hard by CM. Only way is to boom behind cannon defense I guess but idk.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
calmyourtits wrote:[img]http://i.imgur.com/xEERIEp.png"]
Rest of the guide: http://eso-community.net/thread/140/tad-guide-3
My idea exactly. This chart does not lie as it represents all games at all skill levels.
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
ovi12 wrote:Hm you think Spain beats port? How? If they have hunts in their base, ship CM and build everything behind their TC''s there is like NOTHING you can do. If you take down a TC with just cannons you will loose at least 1 cannon to CM TC fire i think and if you go in close with pike you could get trapped hard by CM. Only way is to boom behind cannon defense I guess but idk.
Spain- Ports is a close MU regardless of colonial play, FF, water or w/e.
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
[quote source="/post/3843/thread" timestamp="1428769451" author="@ovi12"]Hm you think Spain beats port? How? If they have hunts in their base, ship CM and build everything behind their TC's there is like NOTHING you can do. If you take down a TC with just cannons you will loose at least 1 cannon to CM TC fire i think and if you go in close with pike you could get trapped hard by CM. Only way is to boom behind cannon defense I guess but idk.[/quote]
It is a secret. I don't like talking about Spain too much because they are my favorite.. but the answer is pretty obvious. Garja is right in saying the match would be close.
Also I wanted to talk about a few of the civs MU's highlighted in blue. Blue on the chart says the match would be close either way, so I wanted to talk about a few of the MU's I am familiar with.
Aztec vs Germany: I always take this match even when outranked because I like the fact that Germany lacks musketeers for this MU. The only reason Germany has beaten me is if I accidentally get my main force ambushed by Dopplesoldners or if they get into a good position to use mercenaries against you. Otherwise from my experience this MU favors Aztec.
Britain vs India: Manor boom evens this out. Hide your villagers and you should come out ahead pretty easily. Britain is one of the few civilizations that can just sit back and survive against India and still come out ahead.
Spain vs Germany: I like this MU a lot. I use musketeers and rods until I can get cannons. Spain can defend uhlan raids without any units at all practically if you use your explorer and his dogs and Spain has plenty of military shipments to pop out on a cavalry raid when your opponent thinks they got your villagers cornered.
Spain vs China: I will share my secret for this MU. I build towers over the hunts and mines that China will be aiming to build villages on. This way you will choke their resources and buy yourself enough time to mass some hussars to assist your musketeers. As you gain shipments add pikemen and rodeleros and fight your way forward until you can get lancers and cannons. Once these two units show up it is time to visit their hometown.
I am no expert, but I am interested in the closer MU's and am curious to see what people think about them. The things I struggle with the most are beating Britain, winning with Russia, and defeating Iroquois so I am not surprised to see the charts reflect the latter.
On another note, I notice a lot of complaints about map balance and I hear what people are saying, but I always thought that the nature of the maps could give some leeway to the civilizations that would normally be at a disadvantage. I never minded playing India with Spain on Saquenay for instance, with exception of Iroquois some times walking a villager out to kill your opponents hunts and build over them proves to be very effective.
So keep an open mind, unless you are talking about a mirror game I see no reason why maps should be perfectly "balanced". Unless it is to pad players ELO and I am sorry to say despite people's reasoning this game is not chess. Knowledge of maps and civilizations is an advantage and you always have the choice to resign before the game is rated. If it is such a big deal to players allowing a one time resign would be an interesting idea if a player feels too disadvantaged. Say you do that and the next map you are happy but your opponent plays this option on you. You just may be able to strategically avoid fighting on grounds you do not feel comfortable or even use it to prevent your opponent from using a map he has a distinct advantage on.
P.S. water maps are avoided like the plague.. but honestly what would Iroquois really be capable of on a purist water map. I may be wrong but I have run into some pretty interesting losses playing on the water.
Would a BB rush even be viable? Iroquois have their own struggles just check treaty. If you look at the game as a whole it is my opinion that there is a ton of balance. Someone always comes out on top but the rules are also a major factor. If it was any different I would have moved on years ago.
It is a secret. I don't like talking about Spain too much because they are my favorite.. but the answer is pretty obvious. Garja is right in saying the match would be close.
Also I wanted to talk about a few of the civs MU's highlighted in blue. Blue on the chart says the match would be close either way, so I wanted to talk about a few of the MU's I am familiar with.
Aztec vs Germany: I always take this match even when outranked because I like the fact that Germany lacks musketeers for this MU. The only reason Germany has beaten me is if I accidentally get my main force ambushed by Dopplesoldners or if they get into a good position to use mercenaries against you. Otherwise from my experience this MU favors Aztec.
Britain vs India: Manor boom evens this out. Hide your villagers and you should come out ahead pretty easily. Britain is one of the few civilizations that can just sit back and survive against India and still come out ahead.
Spain vs Germany: I like this MU a lot. I use musketeers and rods until I can get cannons. Spain can defend uhlan raids without any units at all practically if you use your explorer and his dogs and Spain has plenty of military shipments to pop out on a cavalry raid when your opponent thinks they got your villagers cornered.
Spain vs China: I will share my secret for this MU. I build towers over the hunts and mines that China will be aiming to build villages on. This way you will choke their resources and buy yourself enough time to mass some hussars to assist your musketeers. As you gain shipments add pikemen and rodeleros and fight your way forward until you can get lancers and cannons. Once these two units show up it is time to visit their hometown.
I am no expert, but I am interested in the closer MU's and am curious to see what people think about them. The things I struggle with the most are beating Britain, winning with Russia, and defeating Iroquois so I am not surprised to see the charts reflect the latter.
On another note, I notice a lot of complaints about map balance and I hear what people are saying, but I always thought that the nature of the maps could give some leeway to the civilizations that would normally be at a disadvantage. I never minded playing India with Spain on Saquenay for instance, with exception of Iroquois some times walking a villager out to kill your opponents hunts and build over them proves to be very effective.
So keep an open mind, unless you are talking about a mirror game I see no reason why maps should be perfectly "balanced". Unless it is to pad players ELO and I am sorry to say despite people's reasoning this game is not chess. Knowledge of maps and civilizations is an advantage and you always have the choice to resign before the game is rated. If it is such a big deal to players allowing a one time resign would be an interesting idea if a player feels too disadvantaged. Say you do that and the next map you are happy but your opponent plays this option on you. You just may be able to strategically avoid fighting on grounds you do not feel comfortable or even use it to prevent your opponent from using a map he has a distinct advantage on.
P.S. water maps are avoided like the plague.. but honestly what would Iroquois really be capable of on a purist water map. I may be wrong but I have run into some pretty interesting losses playing on the water.
Would a BB rush even be viable? Iroquois have their own struggles just check treaty. If you look at the game as a whole it is my opinion that there is a ton of balance. Someone always comes out on top but the rules are also a major factor. If it was any different I would have moved on years ago.
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- Dragoon
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Mar 28, 2015
AoE MatchUps CounterCiv
Funnily i did beat a few ottoman guys with sioux, not the best ofc...shaolinstar wrote:Aoe is not a science. Therefore all that has been said might be totally wrong.
Here is my opinion :
France vs China is even.
Otto doesn''t necessarily beat sioux.
As you said, these stats aren''t very reliable.
i guess if u catch their vills off guard &' kill ''em otto''s have a problem making their "expensive" units...
Maybe i was lucky with my raids? but once raided nicely, ottos seem to struggle B-|
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