Samwise12 French Build

User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:2x musks for example? Bow pike in mirror? Russia all in rush? Iro all in rush?
Simply the fact that you don't have a rax asap is enough for a player that knows when buildings are up.

No you don't lose to a double musk. 5 huss+mm will hold rape 10 musk np. And then you have time to build the raxes (and you can just build a rax if he doesn't push).
A bow/pike rush might beat that, true, but unless you're garja, you'll remember that you have a native scout. So seeing no vills on gold, no tp a 2 raxes, you'll guess it's a bow rush :hmm: (again, that is assuming you have a decent game knowledge and the ability to adapt).
You hold a russian rush with 4v/700w without any problems, that's what we all used to do.
And well, the iro rush is imba anyway, but 4v 1st is better because it allows you to punish a greedy play, and vs the rush, you just need to raid and hold with the vills, some musks won't change the done.

If you have some issues vs these rushes, another tip I can give you is to start with a rax.
Players who don't have great defensive skills often find a musk start easier.

Conclusion: If you have hard time vs no eco rushes,
1) Scout more. Use your native scout and your explorer, check if they build a market, a TP, if they have vills on gold etc. With experience it will become easy.

2) Try to find a friend who's at your level and ask him to rush you, then, try to hold and you'll improve your mechanics. I'd recommend you to ask KingRichard and ibero83, they're good training partners.

I hope this helped, if you don't become good in 2 weeks it's normal, keep practicing and you'll improve!
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Garja »

Who the fuck is going to waste 10 musks to mm. You come with 2nd batch and then not having a rax start to be bad.
You don't hold an all in Russia rush with that build. You lost to me even doing that lol.

Conclusion: you need a rax or even two against any rush that beat 5 huss + mm.
And btw I'm not saying you should drop stable+rax from the 400w. But 700w first is just mandatory vs aggressive play.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Who the fuck is going to waste 10 musks to mm. You come with 2nd batch and then not having a rax start to be bad.
You don't hold an all in Russia rush with that build. You lost to me even doing that lol.

Conclusion: you need a rax or even two against any rush that beat 5 huss + mm.

Vills will hold 20 musks, and you'll raid him in the mean time.
I went 700w 1st, stagecoach and built a stable with 700w vs you xD, it has nothing to do with this lmao.

Conclusion: When you cav start vs musk, you need a good multitasking to be able to raid with your cav while killing his musks with vills. Be careful though ,back your low hp vills and put them in your tc, or you'll lose them.
User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by _venox_ »

How about 700w first and then 4 villagers just for the flexibility to drop infrastructure if needed (rax, tp, houses, etc..)? Too many conclusions . :/
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

_venox_ wrote:How about 700w first and then 4 villagers just for the flexibility to drop infrastructure if needed (rax, tp, houses, etc..)? Too many conclusions . :/

4v first is just better, you have more eco and it's safe.
User avatar
Great Britain Method_man714
Lancer
Posts: 586
Joined: Mar 12, 2015
ESO: Therotivator

Re: Samwise12 French Build

  • Quote

Post by Method_man714 »

Surely if you go 700w first and you get hard rushed you will never be able to get more than 5 huss/musks out because of the idle vill time, and sending 4v will help you hold off the rush with great coats ect.
hazzarov: can u fk off callen
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by gibson »

Method_man714 wrote:Surely if you go 700w first and you get hard rushed you will never be able to get more than 5 huss/musks out because of the idle vill time, and sending 4v will help you hold off the rush with great coats ect.
this is wrong in every possible way
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Hazza54321 »

method is a wise blind man
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

gibson wrote:
Method_man714 wrote:Surely if you go 700w first and you get hard rushed you will never be able to get more than 5 huss/musks out because of the idle vill time, and sending 4v will help you hold off the rush with great coats ect.
this is wrong in every possible way

No it is not lol.
If you get rushed by russia for example, you'll get 3 huss with 700w first, because you have to waste VS gathering 700w and you won't have the 4vills gathering. While with 4v first you'll get 4 huss.
Also as mm pointed out, you will use 4 extra vills to defend. Even vs a rush it's just better. But well, it's impossible to have a serious discussion about balance with caria.
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by gibson »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
gibson wrote:
Method_man714 wrote:Surely if you go 700w first and you get hard rushed you will never be able to get more than 5 huss/musks out because of the idle vill time, and sending 4v will help you hold off the rush with great coats ect.
this is wrong in every possible way

No it is not lol.
If you get rushed by russia for example, you'll get 3 huss with 700w first, because you have to waste VS gathering 700w and you won't have the 4vills gathering. While with 4v first you'll get 4 huss.
Also as mm pointed out, you will use 4 extra vills to defend. Even vs a rush it's just better. But well, it's impossible to have a serious discussion about balance with caria.
i was just trolling Sam lol
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Garja »

The point is not the first batch of units. Even dutch can easily defend that. The point is the follow up.
Image Image Image
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by deleted_user0 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
gibson wrote:
Method_man714 wrote:Surely if you go 700w first and you get hard rushed you will never be able to get more than 5 huss/musks out because of the idle vill time, and sending 4v will help you hold off the rush with great coats ect.
this is wrong in every possible way

No it is not lol.
If you get rushed by russia for example, you'll get 3 huss with 700w first, because you have to waste VS gathering 700w and you won't have the 4vills gathering. While with 4v first you'll get 4 huss.
Also as mm pointed out, you will use 4 extra vills to defend. Even vs a rush it's just better. But well, it's impossible to have a serious discussion about balance with caria.


lol dafuq, you should be able to get 5 huss with 700w np. because you should already have the res for that 5 huss when your 700w comes. same is true for 4v actually. dunno why you come with 3 huss 4 huss
User avatar
No Flag Jaeger
Jaeger
Posts: 4492
Joined: Feb 28, 2015

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Jaeger »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

No it is not lol.
If you get rushed by russia for example, you'll get 3 huss with 700w first, because you have to waste VS gathering 700w and you won't have the 4vills gathering. While with 4v first you'll get 4 huss.
Also as mm pointed out, you will use 4 extra vills to defend. Even vs a rush it's just better. But well, it's impossible to have a serious discussion about balance with caria.


lol dafuq, you should be able to get 5 huss with 700w np. because you should already have the res for that 5 huss when your 700w comes. same is true for 4v actually. dunno why you come with 3 huss 4 huss


Well you will definitely not have res for 5 huss 5 musk, because 5 coss will idle you (I guess maybe barely not if you build the rax first with 2 vills) , and a few musk+ a few huss is probably worse than just more huss. Also you need to save res for mm so you can't always make the 5th huss
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
No Flag deleted_user0
Ninja
Posts: 13004
Joined: Apr 28, 2020

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by deleted_user0 »

well i never said 5 of both did i? but you should be able to get 5 huss or 5 musk 2-3 huss. I usually start musk anyway, cuz they will be out faster and if you have 10 musk you are fine vs anything he throws at you. Then you can raid with 3 cav easy
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

No it is not lol.
If you get rushed by russia for example, you'll get 3 huss with 700w first, because you have to waste VS gathering 700w and you won't have the 4vills gathering. While with 4v first you'll get 4 huss.
Also as mm pointed out, you will use 4 extra vills to defend. Even vs a rush it's just better. But well, it's impossible to have a serious discussion about balance with caria.


lol dafuq, you should be able to get 5 huss with 700w np. because you should already have the res for that 5 huss when your 700w comes. same is true for 4v actually. dunno why you come with 3 huss 4 huss

Even if you don t get rushed you get 4huss with 700w first lol.
Or you're talking about no tp strats, in which case it sucks dicks.
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

umeu wrote:well i never said 5 of both did i? but you should be able to get 5 huss or 5 musk 2-3 huss. I usually start musk anyway, cuz they will be out faster and if you have 10 musk you are fine vs anything he throws at you. Then you can raid with 3 cav easy

Oh you were talking about Sam's build.
Tp builds are better.
Netherlands momuuu
Ninja
Posts: 14237
Joined: Jun 7, 2015
ESO: Jerom_

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by momuuu »

The topic is about samwise build right?
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by gibson »

Jerom wrote:The topic is about samwise build right?
Now come on you don't expect him to actually read the title of the thread do you?
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Jerom wrote:The topic is about samwise build right?

Garja talked about 4v/700w, which is of course a tp build.
I thought he was talking about tp into 700w/4v.
Anyway, 4v/700w is better than the sam build in every aspect.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by pecelot »

Even when you wanna be aggressive on non-TP maps? And please don't tell me that I shouldn't play France there, I know your magnificent opinions on this matter.
User avatar
Switzerland _venox_
Howdah
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mar 27, 2015
ESO: _Venox_
Location: Switzerland

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by _venox_ »

On non-tp maps I advice the french grenadier ff. :))
Don't let the things you can't change dictate your life.
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by yemshi »

Which completely sucks on no-TP maps.
You can't 12/10 with 700c ready, you need to send church card when you are barely aged up and don't have 3 cuirs ready.
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Garja »

700w 4v > 4v 700w regardless of what building or units you're going to produce. 4v 700w makes zero sense. If you stay colonial and need 700w you just send it first.
Same thing for 700w 3sw.
Image Image Image
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:700w 4v > 4v 700w regardless of what building or units you're going to produce. 4v 700w makes zero sense. If you stay colonial and need 700w you just send it first.
Same thing for 700w 3sw.

No, you just have no clue about the game.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Samwise12 French Build

Post by Kaiserklein »

Garja wrote:700w 4v > 4v 700w regardless of what building or units you're going to produce. 4v 700w makes zero sense. If you stay colonial and need 700w you just send it first.
Same thing for 700w 3sw.

700w 3sw makes sense, because without early TP germany needs to chop an extra 200w during transition if you want to get the best uhlan batches possible without getting housed (with early TP you only need 100w because 700w comes early enough after 3 sw). With 700w you don't need to chop that extra wood. It also lets you get steel traps earlier. And ofc you can have both rax + stable earlier too.
But for france, you chop 125w regardless of the build and get steel traps asap. So 700w first is much less relevant. The only good thing is you will have rax + stable earlier, but I'm not sure you really need that in most match ups, especially since you have a nat scout so you're supposed to know what units your opponent will train.
700w first can be nice for a stagecoach boom though, but I don't think you were talking about that.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV