Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Which is better to make?

Sepoy
47
64%
Zamburak
26
36%
 
Total votes: 73

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No Flag Jaeger
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Jaeger »

What do you guys think?

[u style="font-weight:bold'"]Sepoy advantages[/u]:
1) Very tanky
2) High base damage
3) Good vs any ranged infantry, including enemy musketeers and skirms/bows

[u style="font-weight:bold'"]Sepoy disadvantages[/u]:
1) Slow (compared to zamburak)
2) Makes you more food-dependent
3) Not as good vs cav

[span style="font-weight:bold'"]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zamburak advantages[/span]:
1) Very fast
2) Two upgrade cards in colonial
3) Do about as much damage to cavalry in raged attack as sepoy do in melee attack

[u style="font-weight:bold'"]Zamburak disadvantages[/u]:
1) Need a stable
2) Low hp
3) Bad vs ranged infantry


I've seen some players make sepoy, others only zamburaks. But if sepoy are better, I don't understand why all civs don't just make vet musk in age 3. You might say that making musk is viable only for India because sepoy are really strong compared to average musks, but British musks are strong too and British makes goons in age 3.


If it's typical skirm goon vs skirm musk, skirm musk should win because musk>'goons. However, once there's cav involved, the goon army becomes better because goons do as much damage in ranged mode as musks do in melee mode.

It sounds like I'm really in favor of zamburak, but after I saw Blackstar play india with sepoy I'm leaning towards the sepoy, I guess what you loose vs cav you make up for by having a better time against ranged infantry, but then I can't rationalize why nobody makes vet musks with for example with French unless you're just afraid of cannons.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Goodspeed »

Sepoy are very good stats for cost musks, zams are mediocre ranged cav. Obviously though, goons in colonial are great.
The units are viable in different situations but I would usually prefer sepoy. Their only downside is that they have to go in front to do anything and they die quickly to ranged fire. This also means they get much stronger in fortress, they have high damage output and India has a great meatshield of mahout+urumi in fortress, protecting sepoy from ranged fire.
Only time I would prefer zams is in prolonged colonial when the camel cards become a factor.
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Jaeger »

calmyourtits wrote:Sepoy are very good stats for cost musks, zams are mediocre ranged cav. Obviously though, goons in colonial are great.
The units are viable in different situations but I would usually prefer sepoy. Their only downside is that they have to go in front to do anything and they die quickly to ranged fire. This also means they get much stronger in fortress, they have high damage output and India has a great meatshield of mahout+urumi in fortress, protecting sepoy from ranged fire.
Only time I would prefer zams is in prolonged colonial when the camel cards become a factor.
But even in long colonial when you''re fighting vs mostly like lb musk, don''t you think sepoy are better as long as there''s not a lot of cav? Whenever I play long term vs British on high hunt map, my ghurka/zamb mass always gets destroyed by lb, but in these finals blackstar did really good with sepoy vs British.
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Goodspeed »

Mostly lb musk? You shouldn't be making a single sepoy or zam.. Just gurkha sowar will do.
Careful you don't draw the wrong conclusions looking at a couple of games. It's not composition that won BS these India/Brit games
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

The pure inf choice seemed more forced due to pressure and the map than a real free strategical decision. I dont think it was his plan ever when he started. 3-4 unit combo with raid ability will beat 2.

But i guess if ryan had gone in that the 150 mark (thats ariound 12 min or so u think) he was ahead with like double units. A fight forced near agra or into eco there i think wouldve given him the leas commandingly. He had army lead for a significant time but only sat on it.

Personally im a fan of sepoy, i guess mainly cuz im a fan of india semi and since u want gurkha and agra age to colo, zambs are just awkward to mix in
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Jaeger »

calmyourtits wrote:Mostly lb musk? You shouldn''t be making a single sepoy or zam.. Just gurkha sowar will do.
Careful you don''t draw the wrong conclusions looking at a couple of games. It''s not composition that won BS these India/Brit games
Well it''s not just that, h2o usually goes zamb, but recently I heard him comment that sepoy are really good vs British I think or something like that,and before that I obsed him play brit vs a major india and he was surprised at how hard it was for him to crack the ghurka sepoy.
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Well goons dont reallly compare to zambs that well. Goons are simply alot stronger. And alot of civs do go for age3 musketeers, think of japan ashi yumi, besides india sepoy urumi mahout ghurka there is also otto jan cannon abus mams and both french and brits go for vet musk cannon from time to time. Imo cuir musk cannon with 15 skir for example is the best way for fre to crack ports.

Advantages of goons over zams are though that they obv are more resillient, have shadowtech and are stronger at raiding. Also you get 10 pop at a time instead of 5 even though zambs train a bit faster. On top of that i find it awkward to mix in a stable when india semi because you also need a rax to upgrade ghurkas since you cant on agra. This is 400w and you cant really afford that wood or can you both facilities anyway. On top of that what makes zambs better than sepoy is the mobility vs raids, but they need the 2 cav cards to send them over the top, and you can only afford to send those in colonial. So it makes sens that you make them more often in age2 and usually if india can go and survive late colonial they win anyway
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by lemmings121 »

calmyourtits wrote:Mostly lb musk? You shouldn''t be making a single sepoy or zam.. Just gurkha sowar will do.
Careful you don''t draw the wrong conclusions looking at a couple of games. It''s not composition that won BS these India/Brit games
You sure about that?
thinking about the first game, what would bsop do with only gurka sowar against that mass of hus? :S
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Goodspeed »

You don't make gurkha sowar against a mass of huss...
Mostly lb musk?
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Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by lemmings121 »

well, true.
missread that.

But even against pure musk lb I would be afraid of having zero anticav
brits usualy can pop 5~10 suprise huss outa nowhere.. imo that composition of the second game is better them pure gurka... have mostly gurka, but some sepoy, just in case...
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by noissance »

I would like to revive this topic, since i have trouble countering british with india. They make so many hussars and goons instead of muskets (because of gurkah?) In this case, would zamburaks (without card) be better or...?
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Mitoe »

Zamburaks are very good with 1 or 2 upgrades. You should not be afraid to make them, nor should you blindly follow the common "sepoy are OP" belief—because they're not.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by fei123456 »

Zamburak are better when you play defensively. With zam/gurkha combo you can kite a lot, kill mass units while you don't lose too much. But sepoy are obviously better in aggro plays.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Asateo »

Aren't Sowars important vs brits? I always make them. Though not exclusively ofcourse.
A) against longbows
B) raiding (brit usually has vils all over the map building houses/gathering food)

Brit also stays in colonial long so the 2 camel cards become viable.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mitoe wrote:Zamburaks are very good with 1 or 2 upgrades. You should not be afraid to make them, nor should you blindly follow the common "sepoy are OP" belief—because they're not.


If sepoys arent op, then why did you lose to sumppuuu
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

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Post by princeofkabul »

umeu wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Zamburaks are very good with 1 or 2 upgrades. You should not be afraid to make them, nor should you blindly follow the common "sepoy are OP" belief—because they're not.


If sepoys arent op, then why did you lose to sumppuuu


Probably got outplayed by somppus' magnificent micro and mechanical skills overall.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Mitoe wrote:Zamburaks are very good with 1 or 2 upgrades. You should not be afraid to make them, nor should you blindly follow the common "sepoy are OP" belief—because they're not.

Yea sepoy legit
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Darwin_ »

Why would you make anything other than sepoy as india???
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

I can't find the Rajput option.

Advantages
1) fast
2) doesn't cost coin
3) snares easily
4) upgrade card in colonial
6) highest base damage vs cav
7) doesn't get countered by a couple skirms
8) good synergy with tiger claws
9) can counter mismicroed goons

Disadvantages
1) a bit worse against heavy infantry than Sepoys
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by lordraphael »

Hazza54321 wrote:
Mitoe wrote:Zamburaks are very good with 1 or 2 upgrades. You should not be afraid to make them, nor should you blindly follow the common "sepoy are OP" belief—because they're not.

Yea sepoy legit

i think sepoys are easily the worst heavy inf in the game.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by fei123456 »

lordraphael wrote:i think sepoys are easily the worst heavy inf in the game.
So you lost the french-india game cuz blackstar outplayed u so much? :hmm:
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by Asateo »

i think sepoys are easily the worst heavy inf in the game.


regular musk = 89VSf+41VSg =120VS

Sepoy 107VSf+50VSg=157VS

Sepoy = 30% more expensive then musk
but 26% more HP
15% more melee damage
8% more range damage
10% more siege damage

Ashi

95VSf+66vsg=161vs

Ashi=34% more expensive then musk
13% more HP
Little less melee damage vs cav and LI then musk
4% more range damage
5% more siege


So it's pretty even cost effectively, sepoy vs musk. Saying sepoy is by far the worst HI in the game is a bit exagerating. If any it's ashi.
Didn't do twc inf, but ashi is worser then sepoy and musk.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by momuuu »

Sepoy are good against tc fire.
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Re: Sepoy vs Zamburak?

Post by deleted_user0 »

Asateo wrote:
i think sepoys are easily the worst heavy inf in the game.


regular musk = 89VSf+41VSg =120VS

Sepoy 107VSf+50VSg=157VS

Sepoy = 30% more expensive then musk
but 26% more HP
15% more melee damage
8% more range damage
10% more siege damage

Ashi

95VSf+66vsg=161vs

Ashi=34% more expensive then musk
13% more HP
Little less melee damage vs cav and LI then musk
4% more range damage
5% more siege


So it's pretty even cost effectively, sepoy vs musk. Saying sepoy is by far the worst HI in the game is a bit exagerating. If any it's ashi.
Didn't do twc inf, but ashi is worser then sepoy and musk.


He was being sarcastic i think. The stats are quite interesting. But dont show the entire picture. Ashi stats are quite bad, until you realise how big 0.5 extra speed is in some situations. And theyre ofc meant to be upgraded a lot. Sepoy stats are kinda close to musks on first glance. Until you take overkill into account. It takes 1 more tc fire shot to kill a sepoy, with an overkill of 78. It takes 5 aennas to one shot a musk, it takes 7 for a sepoy.

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