Mini Sioux guide for ESOC Patch 1.1.1.0

[deuxballesman]

Jist remove the heavy cav tag and they become worth their cost ! Only situation where they are truly great is against musk/huss

[zoom]

Jist remove the heavy cav tag and they become worth their cost ! Only situation where they are truly great is against musk/huss

Actually I'm confident they become quite OP without that tag.

[yurashic]

Here are the main shipments you need in a game. And you can add a lot into them to reach the limit of 25:
You can use 15% hunting boost, 20% chopping boost in age 1.
You can send 7 clubs, 3 bears in age 2 to defend a rush (or to rush).
On tp maps you can use 3 tp travois to take the trading posts.
Some shipments (evening star, 10 pistoleros) are widely used to counter a musk rush. Though cetan bow are buffed now, you can still have them in your deck to give your opponent a surprise.
1000 food, 1000g shipment to buff axe riders, wakina rifles, rifle riders are good in age 3.
Warchief 10% attack aura, 18/16 wakina, 4 dog soldiers are available in age 4. (Is Sioux fi available? They have 1500f politican to call dog soldiers immediately, and they need 400w200g only to upgrade units. Dog soldier have auto upgrade. 18/16 wakina are great. Wish someone could test this.)

I wrote a thread about it some time ago.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2155&hilit=sioux+sioux+fi+sioux+fast+industrial

The idea is that you age up to fortress with the 1000 food option and gather 1200 gold and 1000 food to immediately age up to industrial with the fast age option. In industrial you send strong shipments and make upgraded bow riders. At some point you send 1600 food for the big button.

[deuxballesman]

Jist remove the heavy cav tag and they become worth their cost ! Only situation where they are truly great is against musk/huss

Actually I'm confident they become quite OP without that tag.

The low range still makes them vulnerable and they are expensive but ye it may make them quite op

[Papist]

4 RF is actually rather useless most of times. It is just like a 4 goon card minus the fact that they get countered by goons.

4 goons = 720 resources. 4 rifle riders = 880 resources. And sioux has worth eco than euro civs.
Rifle riders are used as musket killer. 1 rifle rider with cav combat > 3 skirmishers in killing muskets. If he doesn't train musk/ashigaru/dopple you just don't send this.

What matters is if 4 rifle riders is substantially better than 4 goons. I doubt it personally. The rifle rider shipment, especially the 5 RR one, are decent value for what you get. Costwise they are pretty great but RR are simply too expensive I believe. That is a detail in this awesome guide though.

Considering what they are supposed to do (counter cav), they are far inferior to dragoons, and will lose any and all age 3 fights really hard. I have personally never understood why people make them instead of elite bow riders in age 3 - BR are tankier and are superior to dragoons (since they have enough hp to blunt the effect of having no range resist, and the melee resist helps versus cuirs and uhlans in 3). RR have low hp and low attack even versus cav, and get raped by everything that isn't HI or artillery.

[fei123456]

Show hidden quotes

4 RF is actually rather useless most of times. It is just like a 4 goon card minus the fact that they get countered by goons.

4 goons = 720 resources. 4 rifle riders = 880 resources. And sioux has worth eco than euro civs.
Rifle riders are used as musket killer. 1 rifle rider with cav combat > 3 skirmishers in killing muskets. If he doesn't train musk/ashigaru/dopple you just don't send this.

What matters is if 4 rifle riders is substantially better than 4 goons. I doubt it personally. The rifle rider shipment, especially the 5 RR one, are decent value for what you get. Costwise they are pretty great but RR are simply too expensive I believe. That is a detail in this awesome guide though.

Considering what they are supposed to do (counter cav), they are far inferior to dragoons, and will lose any and all age 3 fights really hard. I have personally never understood why people make them instead of elite bow riders in age 3 - BR are tankier and are superior to dragoons (since they have enough hp to blunt the effect of having no range resist, and the melee resist helps versus cuirs and uhlans in 3). RR have low hp and low attack even versus cav, and get raped by everything that isn't HI or artillery.

rifle rider is not "anticav". it's "a skirmisher that is not afraid of cav". they're made to kill muskets, and 3* anti cav is just a bonus.

[Pickles]

Though I do agree that rifle riders are expensive with the Sioux terrible economy, if you are careful and don't just run them in blind rifle riders are awesome. 30 rifle riders > anything but dragoons. Once they are fully upgraded with cards and used properly they annihilate any infantry, heavy and light cavalry and they clean up artillery well. With 30 of them in age 5 I'll take on two or three armies of infantry and as long as you run before they catch you they will all die. If your opponent is going mass cav and lots of dragoons you will have trouble but throw in some BR and that will even the playing field a bit but when it comes down to it every unit has a counter. Even Cuirs lay down against mass dragoons.

The biggest problem with Sioux other than Eco is that there are no decent siege units until age 4, and even then they are hard to get. I usually play team games and of you can get to the thirty minute mark without being wiped (not always possible) you can have 30 RR to back up your team plus 18 Comanche HA card, and a devastating siege army of 30 dog soldiers, 18 Cheyenne card and your warchief. With 25 vill at the fire out doing siege dance (don't care hat anyone says you should always have a full fire pit, the combat and siege bonus more than make up for those 25 villagers not gathering.) The dog soldiers and Cheyenne kill any building except a fort or town center In one hit, forts sometimes walls and town centres are usually two. That is Utterly devastating and usually a game winner but actually getting there can be difficult, and once you get into high casualty fighting the poor Sioux Eco really starts to cripple you. I agree with a lot of people tht said with Sioux you either win completely or lose completely.

The single biggest thing with Sioux is not to pick any fight you can't win. Never fight soldiers when you can fight villagers. Be very aggressive, raid relentlessly, suppress their movements and development and once you've got the dog soldiers roll through and take away everything they love. Hopefully you have team mates that can wall around your base and protect your soft a squishy bits because if you get on the defensive you will lose.

[gibson]

No flame plz. This guy is obviously a beginner so be gentle

[deleted_user0]

I think Sioux are very much underrated on water. Much like Tempoo Reforms is overrated.

cuz of siegedance their canoes can pack a real punch. the problem though is that they lack upgrades and so are paperthin, and they will get outranged by the real watercivs... atleast the iro waterdance buff's hp as well.

[benj89]

their water is decent until like 9-10min after that its just bad. even if u manage to win water you can't even keep water control vs land since lack of range and can't win straight water fight neither vs most other civs once they got their ups. So yea, no underrated water
i'd say their strenght resides more on early push even tho u can't keep the sea for long more than some later push using siege dance which shouldn't happen since decent opponent will control the shores

[[Armag] diarouga]

Rifle riders do well vs warships.

[deleted_user0]

Rifle riders do well vs warships.

except they shouldnt even touch warships if you micro well. they lack range. you'd have to combine warhuts/tc on shore with rifleriders, but that is easily denied by monitors and would never get up when the oppo has strong water presence already.

[_venox_]

Couprider this guide is OP thanks a lot!