russia vs ottomans

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russia vs ottomans

Post by glorious_ »

hey, so I was wondering how you can beat an ottoman ff with russia in 1v1. I've always been struggling when a ottoman player does ff vs russ. Ottomans has usually a decent jan mass and sends falcs first so it is kinda hard to micro them. Later he sends mamelucks which are op especially vs russ units.

Would be great if someone has some good advice.

Cheers
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russia vs ottomans

Post by lordcharlie131 »

This MU is a nightmare. When he ff, i would ff as well, of course he is faster and you will loose some houses, and market or blockhouse. But the time must be enough to survive. Then you need to have some strelets vs jans, Canons vs Canons and Mandschu/musk vs Mamelukes. Your micro have to be better than his, than you can win. After his push russian eco should win this.

sorry for horrobile english.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by blasdg »

Pretty tough actually imo.

I preferred doing an all-out rush during the old times, because many people forgot how much units you atually have as Russia. If you wanna try it, do the following thing:
300 Wood 1st card - gives you a blockhouse and with 50 wood that you gather or find, you have a second house for 35 pop. 14 vil-age up, prioritise food treasures over anything else to get to age 2 asap. 5 Vills on gold, 1 on wood, rest on food, 2 vills build blockhouse forward and hunt afterwards. Age with 500 food (no need for wood in this strategy).
As soon as you hit age 2, queue 3 batches of musketeers, ship 13 strelets. Attack as soon as strelets are out and kill houses asap. Use your explorer to scout, he MUST NOT run away with villagers. If he does, send 5 musketeers to kill them, also make sure to check his TC damage to see how many vills are garrisoned. Dont build villagers. Build musks as soon as you can, 5 cosak and 4 cosak are next (should come in very fast due to massive xp from building musks and killing houses). 5 cosak should be kept to kill vills or to kill the age-up Hussars.

Sounds very easy and pretty nooby (no vills 11) but trust me on this, this actually works if people dont see it coming. You have such a huge mass and come in so fast that many players, especially Ottoman players who heavily rely on 700 wood to get houses + rax + vet-up, dont have a chance to gather their shipment. If you can house him, there is no way he can push you back. 4 Hussar + MM do NOT beat you, he pretty much has to ship 5 Jans at the exact right time to have a chance to kill you.

This strat is legit and back in 2008, even the pros did it sometimes to surprise their opponent and get a clean and fast victory.



The other option is a FF, even though Russia is not the best civ at it. Cosak-semi FF is not too exciting cause his army will consist of Jans, so I prefer doing a TP-based strat, but tbh I dont have a good BO for that at the moment. Just came back to the game. I remember someone doing Kalmyk-FF (Russian church card, 9 Guard dragoons) with 2 cannons and strelets, sacrificing economy to beat it - but as always, it comes down to who kills the cannons of his opponent, if you trust in your micro, do it. Kalmyk really OWN mameluckes as well.



The last option is very cheesy - send 8 spy card and stay in age 2, massing strelets and musketeers. As soon as he hits age 3, count down 40 seconds (shipment time) and sneak in with invisible spys to kill the 2 cannons. When you succeed, attack immidiately. When you fail, surrender. At least you know that the game is gonna be pretty short...
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russia vs ottomans

Post by DerMaxinator »

You should also make some Cavalry Archers vs the Mams imo. Off course, they are expensive, but I think they do a good job, and if you also send the Mandchu then you can deal with mams pretty well.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by Rikikipu »

Imo it's one of the worst MU in this game. Otto destroys russia, there is no chance for russia to win this. Your only chance might be to rush hard and try to burn houses. But i'm surprised that ottoman guys you are facing, try to FF. Jan/abus against russia is unbeatable.
Look at this, i think it's clear enough : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAc851E6l68 (goodspeed VS mike21daisu)
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russia vs ottomans

Post by edeholland »

This is what happens when you try Russia against Ottoman.

https://youtu.be/WAc851E6l68?t=8m51s

I think the problem with Russia is that they cannot stop Ottoman from aging. Against most other fortress civs, like French, German and China, they can do damage before they are aged.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by glorious_ »

tried to handle this with semi ff and kalmyke but it's not the best I think.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by jono »

Otto can get up much quicker than Russia and will have more fortress shipments. Straight FF won't work to counter it unless you can slow down his push - could be with some raiding to distract, some early pressure into FF to try to contain and snipe vills to slow down the age, the use of walls - something has to slow him down. Certainly not an easy MU, not sure how to counter this without slowing him down (ignoring scenarios where he could lose due to micro errors etc.)
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russia vs ottomans

Post by DerMaxinator »

You could also do an eco semi-ff behind walls, and then take the game to a late stage, where your eco is better and then win with that because of better upgrades and also more artillery.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by _H2O »

This matchup is very hard and very unfair. I would say you cannot win this matchup without a significant skill gap.

Best shot would be to make a blockhouse in base because of jan abus. I would build the block house with the age up wood to get more units out and then do 5 cossak, 700 wood, 700gold. This card order allows you to play age 2 or age 3 since the 700 wood can be used for market upgrades, stable, and vet techs. The 5 coss raid or help defend age 2. 700 gold then either helps you roll coss out or lets you age up.

When you get up 2 falcs first for sure. I would also focus on mostly strelets in early fort. Cav archers wont answer mames, but manchu could be a nice answer. I would also say muskets will do better vs mames becuase they can go in hand attack and because the ff usually just has jans which do well vs CA.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by deleted_user0 »

In water maps: Make walls, fish boom and try to defend ottoman at base with all your mass+mm+TC+BHs
In land maps: No way to win.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by deleted_user0 »

Vs otto ff try kalmuck ff. Send 2 cannons then 1000c or gather it and send manchu for the mams while spamming strelet when you can. It should still lose but i think its best chance vs ff. Or you can try all in rushing, if they dont tower and have bad res it can work
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russia vs ottomans

Post by musketjr »

edeholland wrote:This is what happens when you try Russia against Ottoman.

https://youtu.be/WAc851E6l68?t=8m51s

I think the problem with Russia is that they cannot stop Ottoman from aging. Against most other fortress civs, like French, German and China, they can do damage before they are aged.

that was hilarious
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russia vs ottomans

Post by Filippos »

blasdg wrote:Pretty tough actually imo.

I preferred doing an all-out rush during the old times, because many people forgot how much units you atually have as Russia. If you wanna try it, do the following thing:
300 Wood 1st card - gives you a blockhouse and with 50 wood that you gather or find, you have a second house for 35 pop. 14 vil-age up, prioritise food treasures over anything else to get to age 2 asap. 5 Vills on gold, 1 on wood, rest on food, 2 vills build blockhouse forward and hunt afterwards. Age with 500 food (no need for wood in this strategy).
As soon as you hit age 2, queue 3 batches of musketeers, ship 13 strelets. Attack as soon as strelets are out and kill houses asap. Use your explorer to scout, he MUST NOT run away with villagers. If he does, send 5 musketeers to kill them, also make sure to check his TC damage to see how many vills are garrisoned. Dont build villagers. Build musks as soon as you can, 5 cosak and 4 cosak are next (should come in very fast due to massive xp from building musks and killing houses). 5 cosak should be kept to kill vills or to kill the age-up Hussars.

Sounds very easy and pretty nooby (no vills 11) but trust me on this, this actually works if people dont see it coming. You have such a huge mass and come in so fast that many players, especially Ottoman players who heavily rely on 700 wood to get houses + rax + vet-up, dont have a chance to gather their shipment. If you can house him, there is no way he can push you back. 4 Hussar + MM do NOT beat you, he pretty much has to ship 5 Jans at the exact right time to have a chance to kill you.

This strat is legit and back in 2008, even the pros did it sometimes to surprise their opponent and get a clean and fast victory.



The other option is a FF, even though Russia is not the best civ at it. Cosak-semi FF is not too exciting cause his army will consist of Jans, so I prefer doing a TP-based strat, but tbh I dont have a good BO for that at the moment. Just came back to the game. I remember someone doing Kalmyk-FF (Russian church card, 9 Guard dragoons) with 2 cannons and strelets, sacrificing economy to beat it - but as always, it comes down to who kills the cannons of his opponent, if you trust in your micro, do it. Kalmyk really OWN mameluckes as well.



The last option is very cheesy - send 8 spy card and stay in age 2, massing strelets and musketeers. As soon as he hits age 3, count down 40 seconds (shipment time) and sneak in with invisible spys to kill the 2 cannons. When you succeed, attack immidiately. When you fail, surrender. At least you know that the game is gonna be pretty short...

nice post, thanks
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russia vs ottomans

Post by deleted_user0 »

Do spies kill spahi? Lol if so spy strelet with some cossack vs cannons might actually work lol. Xcept u need thousand spies i suppose kill a mam
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russia vs ottomans

Post by deleted_user0 »

umeu wrote:Do spies kill spahi? Lol if so spy strelet with some cossack vs cannons might actually work lol. Xcept u need thousand spies i suppose kill a mam
Spahi isn''t mercenary, right?
Spy hit 200 on mame but hitpoints are quite poor. meh.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by cowhax »

Is pure musk-huss not an option vs Otto? maybe supplemented by strelet. I feel like in a lot of MUs, strelet are a terrible unit choice. They get plowed by cav, and are very specialized to be a heavy infantry counter. They're only somewhat good for raiding. I think they're best produced as a reaction to what the other player's unit composition is. Musketeers you could at least put into hand combat to deal with abus if you don't have cav available, or the abus is too balled up with the jans. In fortress you'd probably be better off not producing any strelet and just make a few oprichinks to be your anti-artillery. It'd cost around the same population, but oprichinks are way more durable.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by divine_moon »

umeu wrote:Do spies kill spahi? Lol if so spy strelet with some cossack vs cannons might actually work lol. Xcept u need thousand spies i suppose kill a mam
Against Spahi I have no clue what to use.. :P possibly, Musk in melee + Cav Archers behind (the damn spahi have sooo many HP (facepalm) )
but i do believe spies would kill Mamelukes, ''cuz mams are termed as "mercenaries", which spies have a bonus against right?
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russia vs ottomans

Post by _venox_ »

maybe do suworov ff and send falcs 1000c manchu
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russia vs ottomans

Post by iNcog »

it's easy just don't play against otto
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russia vs ottomans

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Post by Papist »

If the Ottoman guy is any good, he will wipe the floor with Russia. But if you insist of trying this MU, go for an FF, make cossacks and raid to slow him down (delaying his gathering of the crates will give you more time). After you are aged up, make musks and rip his base down. Follow this up with 2 cannons and catch his units as they come out (he will likely send either mams or 2 cannons of his own in the meantime, but if you have a sufficient mass it shouldn't matter.

If he ages and comes at your base, try to kill his cannons with cav or tc fire while your army stays back. When his cannons are dead, come in with your musks and finish him off, making sure to focus down the mams first. If you can last until his economy falls behind, you will survive.

of course, what is more likely is that he comes into your base at 10 minutes and kills you handily. Just sayin'.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by princeofkabul »

papist wrote:If the Ottoman guy is any good, he will wipe the floor with Russia. But if you insist of trying this MU, go for an FF, make cossacks and raid to slow him down (delaying his gathering of the crates will give you more time). After you are aged up, make musks and rip his base down. Follow this up with 2 cannons and catch his units as they come out (he will likely send either mams or 2 cannons of his own in the meantime, but if you have a sufficient mass it shouldn''t matter.

If he ages and comes at your base, try to kill his cannons with cav or tc fire while your army stays back. When his cannons are dead, come in with your musks and finish him off, making sure to focus down the mams first. If you can last until his economy falls behind, you will survive.

of course, what is more likely is that he comes into your base at 10 minutes and kills you handily. Just sayin''.

Targetting mams with musk is something you don''t want to do. Vrt jans just are too big damage dealers behind them :p
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russia vs ottomans

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

That's a very hard MU for russia but Heroes_ won in the last pkclan tournament 2 times vs Phish and 1 time vs roche426.
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russia vs ottomans

Post by benj89 »

never mention phish in a serious conversation, never ever that's written in the aoe bible
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