Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Netherlands momuuu
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by momuuu »

ovi12 wrote:
Jerom wrote:I just think the native scout can situationally ruin the game. Id prefer to see more 70f, 60xp, 60w, 80f, 70c treasures. Those do matter but theyre not huge.

Lol jerom why do u complain about age 1 laming when you are the biggest age 1 lamer i know? I remember all the games we played, even if you didnt get a nat treasure you would lame vills 100% of the time with just explorer and envoy, and if i didnt fb u would always lame vills in base just for me to garrison

Well, I wanna win more than I want you to enjoy our games XD
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by Jaeger »

hunter wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:
hunter wrote:Hmm, maybe yeah the read seems funny indeed not something wrong though. Period.

mate you are completely wrong and saying it as though everyones an idiot.

How am I completely wrong? I mean you can't avoided your agra being scouted but you can surely hide your vill until your agra is placed*

On most maps you want to place your agra somewhere on the line connecting you and your enemy's tc. If you don't its really bad, so its really easy to find. Even if you do place it and walk back your vill will still die before getting to TC, and even if it doesnt you will age 10 seconds later because your vill cant build it. Making your opponent age 10s later is insane for a 3 coyote treasure just by itself, and you have all the other benefits too
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by Kaiserklein »

hunter wrote:Afaik the guardians which TWC explorers convert already have negative multiplier vs vills and buildings and the multiplier is 0.1. As india vs french native scout you also got 2 explorer to defend your vill. How about develop a skill where in you scout properly and sneak a vill in rather than saying, "Hey look my vill I am going agra on your hunt come and kill my vill".

I never said they had to use rifleman vs vils... Just saying that there are some things that do not depend on skill, simply a better civ for age 1, or luck. The rifleman + sioux explo is just an unbeatable combo if microed properly, not skill... It's the same if you get a toma va india lol, sneak a vil ? Do you play this game ? Do you know how big an agra fort is lol, you think you can like, "sneak it" ? You're just going to lose your vil if the guy has a toma and if he has basic scouting skills, end of the discussion. Also you can't defend your vil with eles lol, because vs france you're really likely to already have lost 1 ele at least, or then they are low hp, because you get snared almost every game, and you can't do anything about it.

hunter wrote:Then its quite sad that you still don't realize there is pattern involved or you really never took effort to figure it out.

Or maybe it's sad that you imagine false things... I probs know gp much better than you. Aren't you the guy who said otto have less crates than other civs on some maps anyway ? Not really worth talking with you then :/

hunter wrote:Hmm, maybe yeah the read seems funny indeed not something wrong though. Period.

Man pls get a bit of humility, how can you be so sure of yourself lol, are you PR 40 ? inb4 "rank doesn't matter" sorry but it does, if you're a random lieut or sth (and you're probs lower seeing what you write) you just don't have a super good understanding of the game, so why be so full of yourself ?

pecelot wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:And what if i'm herding from far away and the guy comes with a huaminca ? Do you know how fast this thing actually kills a vil ? I'll calculate it for you : with explo + huaminca, it takes only 18 seconds to kill a vil. And the vil is snared...

It's quite a long time actually, even snared villagers will make it into the TC with the cover fire from it. And if you know your opponent has taken a nat treasure, you can have your explorer somewhere at the back if you have to herd a far hunt. Other than that, I get your point, and I imagine a Tomahawk is much more deadly together with melee explorer because of range damage (and vills' melee resist).

It's a very short time lol, 18 seconds while being snared means you reach approx the same distance as if you're not snared during 12 seconds, which means less than 1 screen... On some maps where hunts are really far you just have to lose the vil. Agreed, those don't really exist on esoc maps, but I was talking about general stuff.

Papist wrote:There are definitely patterns on GP. While the same treasures don;t always spawn, they do tend to spawn in the same place:

1. Beaver treasures and 40f treasure w/ one wolf guardian always spawn around your base
Yeah that's starting treasures, like on every map...
2. 80w, if it is present, always spawns in the upper right or middle left of the map
No
3. Unit-in-tree treasures (vils and natives) always spawn on the sides, usually just north or south of the horizontal ; cdb treasures always spawn just outside of the middle.
No
4. 2 coyote treasures (50w, 60f, 70xp) are always in the upper left and lower right, 2 more are in the middle
No
5. There is a 3 coyote treasure that spawns in the middle (tame coyote or 75c).
No
I'm sure there are more patterns that I'm not remembering. The only treasures that are completely random are the big xp treasures, the cougar treasure, the native scout, and 140f.

Have you ever played gp ? This is utter bullshit
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

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Post by _H2O »

Just the threat of getting minutemened forces Russia to pull 4 Vils and have explorer watching if they want a blockhouse under your tc. I think it's fair to try to prevent Russia from getting that strong of a contain.
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Poland pecelot
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by pecelot »

noissance wrote:Is walling OP treasures also a good idea? Ive seen people do this in treaty to deny explorer.

Also, are the following treasures any good:
1. Faster building construction / more building hp
2. 5 % food/gold discount
3. +5 max pop

Well, I don't think so, since guardians can block the structures, and more importantly you need to get there with your vill and waste some wood.

I think all of the treasures mentioned are somewhat useful in 1v1, but the first and the third one definitely excel in the long term, and are actually pretty significant, like having constantly 5 more units on the field than your opponent (that's one culverin and a soldier). 5% discount is very nice as well, let's say on the Industrial Age upgrade alone you save 100 food, and the more you research, the more you spare.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

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Post by CelticCrusader »

The MM pop works well against russia, I had it done to me . I wouldn't consider it lame though. Its actually a good decision because it ruined my build and I could not be as aggressive as I wanted. The word lame is probably used too much.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by abbadan »

Papist wrote:
LordCharlie_131 wrote:Sending MM to kill forward vills is the most annoying stuff in the game. MM arent supposed to be so aggressive and should have a negative multiplier vs vills. Veni says u should protect your Forward vills with your Scouts but against 5 minuteman its sometimes not enough.


If you are building your base so far forward that sending MM to stop it from going up is even an option, then you deserve to lose vils.


TRUE THAT! I play Russia a lot and it's one of the risks I take, a trade-off for a violent rush that I will send. That kind of play is do-or-die; either the rush cripples the enemy or it cripples the rusher.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by pecelot »

On the other hand, it's not like it's not avoidable. With a good awareness you should not lose more than one villager if you're being caught off guard, and usually regardless you can use your explorer to scout a potential MM pop and even snare.
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Canada Lunatic_Fringe
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by Lunatic_Fringe »

It doesn't make sense calling out minuteman if the opponent is sending a single villager to build his fb.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by pecelot »

Usually people send more vills forward, 2, 3 or even 4.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

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Post by tedere12 »

age 1 explorer dog is very op, it can kill forward vills easy
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Tonga sdsanft
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by sdsanft »

tedere12 wrote:age 1 explorer dog is very op, it can kill forward vills easy

I haven't tested it but I think port should send this vs atp or fb builds
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by deleted_user »

It's almost scary how good an age 1 nat treasure is in certain MUs vs certain builds. If you pick up a nat tres in brit mirror for instance and your opponent does not he simply can't fb, and you theoretically win the game off of that. Versus India you can easily kill a villager if it's an aggressive agra (one time I killed both of cheadar's agra vills when he 10/10'd) and a scout in stealth mode can idle india to 1000 food agra placement :p

Blocking agra becomes increasingly easier as a TWC civ that converts guardians. I recall a game vs an indian player where I played aztec and had 4 guardians + explorer to block his agra.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by milku3459 »

_H2O wrote:Just the threat of getting minutemened forces Russia to pull 4 Vils and have explorer watching if they want a blockhouse under your tc. I think it's fair to try to prevent Russia from getting that strong of a contain.



Of course H2O would say that ;)
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by deleted_user0 »

The melee tres guards are the beat btw cuz you can let your explorer shoot and them snare. They usually do more dmg than the explorer in melee and the explorer does more dmg at range.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by deleted_user »

Mele guards also have more siege, important in brit mirror vs tower.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by deleted_user0 »

deleted_user wrote:It's almost scary how good an age 1 nat treasure is in certain MUs vs certain builds. If you pick up a nat tres in brit mirror for instance and your opponent does not he simply can't fb, and you theoretically win the game off of that. Versus India you can easily kill a villager if it's an aggressive agra (one time I killed both of cheadar's agra vills when he 10/10'd) and a scout in stealth mode can idle india to 1000 food agra placement :p

Blocking agra becomes increasingly easier as a TWC civ that converts guardians. I recall a game vs an indian player where I played aztec and had 4 guardians + explorer to block his agra.


Samerhing with iro mirror, convert 2 outlaw riflemen and the travois cant leave base and u basically win cuz u can mapcontrol, unless they do it to you too ofc
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by pecelot »

deleted_user wrote:Mele guards also have more siege, important in brit mirror vs tower.

how do you convert guardians in brit mirrors
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by deleted_user »

nootka tres
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by pecelot »

they're not guardians, tho
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by Imperial Noob »

About treasure-rescued units "not being supposed" to be used in Discovery Age agression, to the point where they supposedly deserve a negative multiplier against vills...

wtf?

That is EXACTLY what they were designed to do, to maybe kill a villie or make a dozen of villies work for 10 sec more in age I, as a way of proving their worth in resources (for example when compared to a treasure full of wood guarded by the same number of guardians).
Small treasures are all about gain&entertainment in age I.


The question is, why are India explorers split versus France if it obviously results in them getting their cute elephant babies hurt? Explain to the noob, pls.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by forgrin »

Imperial Noob wrote:The question is, why are India explorers split versus France if it obviously results in them getting their cute elephant babies hurt? Explain to the noob, pls.


On RE with the scout snare the French scout + explorer can take on 2 elephants as easily as one, so you might as well get more scouting done as India. Seriously, those elephants do pretty much 0 damage (especially to explorers). A euro explorer can 1v2 both elephants from full HP in melee iirc.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” how to prevent a forward base

Post by Imperial Noob »

forgrin wrote:
Imperial Noob wrote:The question is, why are India explorers split versus France if it obviously results in them getting their cute elephant babies hurt? Explain to the noob, pls.


On RE with the scout snare the French scout + explorer can take on 2 elephants as easily as one, so you might as well get more scouting done as India. Seriously, those elephants do pretty much 0 damage (especially to explorers). A euro explorer can 1v2 both elephants from full HP in melee iirc.


:cry:

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