Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

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Poland pecelot
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Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

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Post by pecelot »

Today's tip may be particularly useful if you find yourself playing as the Germans or against the French. Its focus is on a certain clasification of explorer units β€” β€žSees Stealth".
When you go for a massive mercenary push with the Germans, which is not that uncommon strategy recently, make sure you group your Explorer with your army to prevent optional opponent's Spy ambush. Spies, as it's widely known, are a great counter to mercenaries, but their main weakness is an enemy's ability to kite. If you manage to get them in melee combat, they become very scary, but German mercenary army, mostly consisting of Jaegers and Black Riders, is ranged. Your opponent then may try to catch it by going stealth with his spies, with your explorer near your troops, though, it won't be possible, as he detects them nicely and early.
We all know how advantageous additional line of sight of a French Native Scout can become. Players often move them next to enemy's military buildings to quickly get a knowledge of opponent's upcoming reinforcements and army composition. There's one easy trick to prevent this. When the dust settles and you have some spare APM, you can move your explorer unit around your military building to try to find that cheeky Frenchie. Make sure you have some army to quickly kill him, as your enemy will instantly receive a notification of his Native Scout being spotted and will certainly try to run him away. It's a pretty useful action that will not cost you anything, as French players tend to heavily rely on him during the games.
If your explorer is currently unavailable, you can always use an Envoy or your own Native Scout, if you happen to have one, to do that, as they see stealth as well. The same goes with Spies and Ninjas. Watch out for treasures got by your enemy, as he can get a Native Scout himself β€” remember then to use this simple trick!


If you like the tip, like the post! Let me know whether you find it helpful so that I can improve my advice in the future!

EDIT (9th of October):
The summary with all units and buildings with a β€žSees stealth tag":
Spies, Ninjas, Envoys, Explorers/War Chiefs/Heroes, Native Scout, Shinobis; Town Centers, Agra Forts, European Forts.

Side note: although it may appear that most units that can go stealth can also see other units in such a stance, it's not always the case :!: Troops like Forest Prowlers, Tashunke Prowlers, Jaguar Prowlers, Coyote Runners and Navajo Riflemen do not have the aforementioned tag. The same applies to other buildings which you'd most likely suspect, so generally the ones that can fire. They do not detect stealth armies, don't be afraid then to come underneath a Blockhouse or a War Hut with your Native Scout!

β€žAnti-stealth range" β€” edit (5th of January, update: 14th of May):

Kaiserklein wrote:Btw it would be cool to know what the range of the "anti stealth" is. I think it's around 1/3 of the LOS of the building and probs a bit more (2/3 ?) for units


It depends on the building or the unit, although some common patterns may be found. A Town Center detects stealth units in around-24-tile radius, with 32 attack range; a Fort does it from 26 tiles away β€” equally to its attack range; an Explorer and Heroes with 18 base LOS and 16 range seems to do so within 16–18 range; the Agra Fort β€” around 6 tiles closer than its maximum range of 26; a Spy β€” about 20 tiles away with base LOS of 28; Shinobis and Native Scouts β€” the same as their base LOS: 18 and 22, respectively; Envoys β€” within more than 20-tile radius with their base LOS of 26.

Proof pictures β€” shows two units of the same type, with the distance in between them being equal to their line of sight, and a Spy being detected in the place he stands (hence: anti-stealth range):

[spoiler=Spies with 28 LOS]Image[/spoiler]

[spoiler=TCs with 32 attack range]Image[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Envoys with 26 LOS]Image[/spoiler]
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

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Post by BrookG »

The pun is real, man!! Monks finally are useful.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by Mimsy for President »

Adrian Monk is a real muthaphuckkin G.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

Updated the OP: apparently, I forgot about Envoys lol
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by Kaiserklein »

Good tip, I'd also add that some buildings see stealth as well. Most importantly, the town center does, but I also noticed the agra does. Not sure if there are other buildings that spot stealth (Some other wonders ? The euro fort ? Noble hut ? Or whatever) but I think it's an important thing because if you go too close to tc with your scout he will get spotted and rekt. Also note that towers don't spot stealth, unlike what a lot of people think.
Btw it would be cool to know what the range of the "anti stealth" is. I think it's around 1/3 of the LOS of the building and probs a bit more (2/3 ?) for units
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by noissance »

Forts see stealth as well, but not many use forts, lol.

Also, great pun!
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by _venox_ »

I thought the Spanish war dogs also were able to see hidden units.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by iNcog »

interesting one
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by Laurence Drake »

Good thread pecelot, you have the endorsement of the ESOC Council! Congratulations!
Top quality poster.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

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I am a truly independent candidate, ESOC Council is rigged along with Crooked Laurence!
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

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Post by pecelot »

Kaiserklein wrote:Good tip, I'd also add that some buildings see stealth as well. Most importantly, the town center does, but I also noticed the agra does. Not sure if there are other buildings that spot stealth (Some other wonders ? The euro fort ? Noble hut ? Or whatever) but I think it's an important thing because if you go too close to tc with your scout he will get spotted and rekt. Also note that towers don't spot stealth, unlike what a lot of people think.
Btw it would be cool to know what the range of the "anti stealth" is. I think it's around 1/3 of the LOS of the building and probs a bit more (2/3 ?) for units

I finally checked that, at least the first part. A brief round in the editor gave clear answers.
A collection of units that are classified as β€žSees stealth":
Spies, Ninjas, Envoys, Explorers/War Chiefs/Heroes, Native Scout, Shinobis (!); Town Centers, Agra Forts, European Forts.
Side note: although it may appear that most units that can go stealth can also see other units in such a stance, it's not always the case :!: Troops like Forest Prowlers, Tashunke Prowlers and Navajo Riflemen do not have the aforementioned tag. The same applies to other buildings which you'd most likely suspect, so generally the ones that can fire. They do not detect stealth armies, don't be afraid then to come underneath a Blockhouse or a War Hut with your Native Scout!

About the β€žanti-stealth range" β€” I'm not sure, honestly. I'd probably need another player to check that out with me, which may be really tricky at the moment as my connection is pretty shitty now for AoE (FTJ :cry:). From what I've seen during my recent tests, it appears that when a stealth unit walks into an anti-stealth buildings LOS, it becomes uncovered. Again, I'm not sure about that yet.

I'll edit the OP in a minute :smile:
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by noissance »

What if buildings are stealthed? I remember a scenario where towers could be stealthed, and could move as fast as a villager.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

I'm not mentioning any modifications, please keep that away.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by noissance »

It wasn't a mod it was on a scenario game.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

It's the same in this case.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by sebnan12 »

jaguar prowl knights aswell as the iro skirmishers (dont know english name aswell as the sioux unit which can go stealth(cav) do all see stealth units.. u shud add the @pecelot
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by sebnan12 »

atleast jaguar knights i tested by myself
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by fei123456 »

sebnan12 wrote:jaguar prowl knights aswell as the iro skirmishers (dont know english name aswell as the sioux unit which can go stealth(cav) do all see stealth units.. u shud add the @pecelot

forest prowler/couprider(or tashunke prowler)
tashunke=horse. tashunke witko="crazy horse".

i dont think spy is a great threat to mercenaries. a spy costs 125g but has poooooor basic hp/damage, while mercs are monsters in age 3. also you can only spam spies from one church.
send "assassin" or "agent" will make spies stronger, but is it better than cav combat/refrigeration?
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by Mimsy for President »

And coyote runners with Silent Strike card.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by P i k i l i c »

sebnan12 wrote:jaguar prowl knights aswell as the iro skirmishers (dont know english name aswell as the sioux unit which can go stealth(cav) do all see stealth units.. u shud add the @pecelot

pecelot wrote:Side note: although it may appear that most units that can go stealth can also see other units in such a stance, it's not always the case :!: Troops like Forest Prowlers, Tashunke Prowlers and Navajo Riflemen do not have the aforementioned tag.
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:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

Thanks, pikilic!

Couprider wrote:also you can only spam spies from one church.

They are produced rather quickly.
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by sebnan12 »

P i k i l i c wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:jaguar prowl knights aswell as the iro skirmishers (dont know english name aswell as the sioux unit which can go stealth(cav) do all see stealth units.. u shud add the @pecelot

pecelot wrote:Side note: although it may appear that most units that can go stealth can also see other units in such a stance, it's not always the case :!: Troops like Forest Prowlers, Tashunke Prowlers and Navajo Riflemen do not have the aforementioned tag.

i saw that but did u try it in game aswell? cauz i know jaguars see stealth
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by P i k i l i c »

sebnan12 wrote:i saw that but did u try it in game aswell? cauz i know jaguars see stealth

pecelot said nothing about them, but he said about FPs and Tashunke, and your post was also about these 2. But yes, jaguars Prowlers do see stealth
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:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

I must have forgotten about them, possibly to due my lack of experience with the Aztecs. I checked that quickly and it's not a big deal, as they fit into the category I described in the OP β€” although they can go stealth, they have no β€žSees stealth" tag. :!:
edit: I updated the OP :)
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Re: Tip of the Day β€” Detective Monk

Post by pecelot »

Kaiserklein wrote:Btw it would be cool to know what the range of the "anti stealth" is. I think it's around 1/3 of the LOS of the building and probs a bit more (2/3 ?) for units

Sorry for double-posting, but I finally checked that. It's pretty illogical and depends purely on the building/unit. For example, a Town Center detects stealth units within the range of about half of its line of sight; a Fort, which weirdly enough has the same LOS as an attack range, does it from 26 tiles away; an Explorer with 18 LOS and 16 range seems to do so within 16 range; the Agra Fort β€” something like 3/4 its LOS; a Spy β€” about the same as the Agra Fort. :? :? :?

I don't really know what conclusions you may draw from this. Of course you should always have some distance between your stealth unit and the enemy one that can detect such troops. Generally the β€žanti-stealth" range is about the same as the LOS of the unit, though I guess you can come a bit closer to a TC. With a Native Scout with the LOS of 22 you can come close enough to see an edge of a TC, for instance.

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