Port Sheep FI

[britishmusketeer]

Whats the herding gathering rate? It already takes a significant time to collect 1000f in crate, probably like 50 food or so in villager seconds, maybe more.

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 32509,0,10

[momuuu]

Whats the herding gathering rate? It already takes a significant time to collect 1000f in crate, probably like 50 food or so in villager seconds, maybe more.

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 32509,0,10

So in the time you collect 2100f you culdve gotten like 1400f from hunting? In which case it is worse than a 1000f shipment for sure.

[britishmusketeer]

Whats the herding gathering rate? It already takes a significant time to collect 1000f in crate, probably like 50 food or so in villager seconds, maybe more.

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 32509,0,10

So in the time you collect 2100f you culdve gotten like 1400f from hunting? In which case it is worse than a 1000f shipment for sure.

not to mention you lose like half the food from decay, huge amounts of vill bumping (sheep are small), obvious what you are doing if you are scouted ect.

[zoom]

Really? I thought the livestock gathering rate was at least twice the hunting rate, and possibly up to several times higher.

Very interesting!

[zoom]

Show hidden quotes

Whats the herding gathering rate? It already takes a significant time to collect 1000f in crate, probably like 50 food or so in villager seconds, maybe more.

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 32509,0,10

So in the time you collect 2100f you culdve gotten like 1400f from hunting? In which case it is worse than a 1000f shipment for sure.

not to mention you lose like half the food from decay, huge amounts of vill bumping (sheep are small), obvious what you are doing if you are scouted ect.

You lose nowhere near half the food from decay.

[britishmusketeer]

Just tested it. 5 vills gathering 7 sheep takes 3 mins and gets you 1614 food. 5*3*60=900VS. The livestock pen is 400VS. 1300/(0.84*1.3) = potential food gathered with those vills = 1190f. So overall with the sheep strategy you get 424food and conserve 1614 food. 1Kf takes 26 secs to gather = 26*5=130VS. 130/(0.84*1.3)=119food lost. So overall with 1kf you get 881food and conserve 1k. Therefore with the sheep you conserve the equivalent of 2 deer including decay but lose out on 457food.

[forgrin]

Just tested it. 5 vills gathering 7 sheep takes 3 mins and gets you 1614 food. 5*3*60=900VS. The livestock pen is 400VS. 1300/(0.84*1.3) = potential food gathered with those vills = 1190f. So overall with the sheep strategy you get 424food and conserve 1614 food. 1Kf takes 26 secs to gather = 26*5=130VS. 130/(0.84*1.3)=119food lost. So overall with 1kf you get 881food and conserve 1k. Therefore with the sheep you conserve the equivalent of 2 deer including decay but lose out on 457food.

Cool to look at it this way! I didn't realise the gather rate for herdables was so low by default. As I said in the OP it's moreso for RE maps (and RE Ports) where you'll likely starve if you try to FI on land.

[pecelot]

@britishmusketeer

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how come you get over 1600 food from 2100 food sheep? It doesn't take much effort to delete like 5 sheep at once and task a vill to each of them.

[britishmusketeer]

@britishmusketeer

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how come you get over 1600 food from 2100 food sheep? It doesn't take much effort to delete like 5 sheep at once and task a vill to each of them.

Not exactly sure what you are saying. The reason you get 1600 food from 2100 food sheep is because of decay.

[pecelot]

But losing 500 food from 7 sheep for me seems unrealistic, that's why I'm a bit confused as how that can happen.

[britishmusketeer]

But losing 500 food from 7 sheep for me seems unrealistic, that's why I'm a bit confused as how that can happen.

It takes 3 min to gather 7 sheep with 5 vills. You get a lot of decay in that time. You should test it.

[pecelot]

Yeah, you're most likely right, at the moment I can't test it myself, I'm just curious, because with proper vill distrubution you theoretically shouldn't lose that much food. I'll check it out later!

[britishmusketeer]

Yeah, you're most likely right, at the moment I can't test it myself, I'm just curious, because with proper vill distrubution you theoretically shouldn't lose that much food. I'll check it out later!

You can definitely make it more efficient that I did it. I didn't even move my sheep from the pen once they fattened. I'd be surprised if if makes a particularly big difference though.

[forgrin]

@britishmusketeer

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@pecelot

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5 vills on the sheep are far too few. Test it with 15ish, that's more like how many you'd use.

[britishmusketeer]

@britishmusketeer

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@pecelot

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5 vills on the sheep are far too few. Test it with 15ish, that's more like how many you'd use.

It is indeed true that if you used 15 vills you would have less decay, but the inefficiency of moving 15 vills to the sheep, having them bump into each other and path horribly, and then go back to resources would cost you more res than you gain from less decay. Probably the optimal is 7 vills, one for each sheep.

[pecelot]

that'd be bumpy lol
and you'd probably lose a lot of VS walking there from your normal hunts

[Jaeger]

@britishmusketeer

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@pecelot

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5 vills on the sheep are far too few. Test it with 15ish, that's more like how many you'd use.

It is indeed true that if you used 15 vills you would have less decay, but the inefficiency of moving 15 vills to the sheep, having them bump into each other and path horribly, and then go back to resources would cost you more res than you gain from less decay. Probably the optimal is 7 vills, one for each sheep.

Why would you send any vills to the sheep lol when you can send the sheep to the vills?

[Jaeger]

I think maybe on cascade range for example its worth it to build pen and get the faster fattening upgrade, and train sheep while your opponent is making mills. Or as brit send one of those crazy treaty cards

[zoom]

Just tested it. 5 vills gathering 7 sheep takes 3 mins and gets you 1614 food. 5*3*60=900VS. The livestock pen is 400VS. 1300/(0.84*1.3) = potential food gathered with those vills = 1190f. So overall with the sheep strategy you get 424food and conserve 1614 food. 1Kf takes 26 secs to gather = 26*5=130VS. 130/(0.84*1.3)=119food lost. So overall with 1kf you get 881food and conserve 1k. Therefore with the sheep you conserve the equivalent of 2 deer including decay but lose out on 457food.

Since I'm swe_tarded, please tell me the following: what proportion of the total food in sheep was lost from decay in your tests?

[Garja]

Even if you get let's say 1900f out of 2100f sheeps, it is still 900f you get at a lower rate and that costs you 200w+building time. Also generally the pen takes place of market so it's even more res that you lose in comparison.
In general it has its drawbacks. If we talk about pure efficiency in an ideal game (basically no rush) then obviously 7 sheeps > 1000f, otherwise in practical terms is about the same.

[Jaeger]

Even if you get let's say 1900f out of 2100f sheeps, it is still 900f you get at a lower rate and that costs you 200w+building time. Also generally the pen takes place of market so it's even more res that you lose in comparison.
In general it has its drawbacks. If we talk about pure efficiency in an ideal game (basically no rush) then obviously 7 sheeps > 1000f, otherwise in practical terms is about the same.

Well either you gather 1000f from crates really fast and 900f at normal rate, or you gather the whole 1900f much faster than the normal rate. Ofc you have to build pen too (but walking time probably doesn't affect it too much since you have walking time for crates as well, whereas the sheep you can move directly to your vills). Maybe going with crates gives you more VS, but the main point of the sheep is that you have more food than is normally available on the map. If there are no hunts, you will maybe get more VS from 1000f crate+time, but that time will be spent gathering wood or gold if you're out of food

[britishmusketeer]

Just tested it. 5 vills gathering 7 sheep takes 3 mins and gets you 1614 food. 5*3*60=900VS. The livestock pen is 400VS. 1300/(0.84*1.3) = potential food gathered with those vills = 1190f. So overall with the sheep strategy you get 424food and conserve 1614 food. 1Kf takes 26 secs to gather = 26*5=130VS. 130/(0.84*1.3)=119food lost. So overall with 1kf you get 881food and conserve 1k. Therefore with the sheep you conserve the equivalent of 2 deer including decay but lose out on 457food.

Since I'm swe_tarded, please tell me the following: what proportion of the total food in sheep was lost from decay in your tests?

23%

[zoom]

Tank you!

[Zhanson10]

I like this strat. I think I'd age with 400 wood instead

[deleted_user]

What's the fastest semi-alright-BO port FI time? 10 min? 11?