Piroshiki FF spain

[Goodspeed]

thats actually a pretty interesting post yurashic

though doesnt that make spain an all-in civ? which is easy to counter

Spain is an all-in civ, they are weak but not so easy to counter.

I dont think Spain is necessarily an all in civ. Sure they have some MUs where they have to go all in, but there are plenty of high eco FFs or even semi-FFs where they can play for a mid fortress mass and keep map control which is often better. They do have a market, 5v shipment and 1000w* in fortress..

[deleted_user0]

1000w or food no gold, sadly.

[Jaeger]

1000w or food no gold, sadly.

Yeah, 1000f is really bad I made a thread where you can see here:

http://eso-community.net/thread/680/shi ... its-crates

[Goodspeed]

1000w or food no gold, sadly.

Right, w*.

[yurashic]

Spain is an all-in civ, they are weak but not so easy to counter.

I dont think Spain is necessarily an all in civ. Sure they have some MUs where they have to go all in, but there are plenty of high eco FFs or even semi-FFs where they can play for a mid fortress mass and keep map control which is often better. They do have a market, 5v shipment and 1000g in fortress..

You dont have a fast age up politician, so if you semi ff you will die to both colonial timings and early fortress timings.
Even with 5 vils and 4 vils your eco is mediocre.
You cant keep up with other civs in fortress age. All shipments you have except for cannons and 4 lancers are unupgraded age 2 units, while other civs can ship skirmishers or dragoons. Im not even talking about Japan or India.
You cant play colonial either, because your units in age 2 are nothing special and you dont have 400w politician.
So fast aggressive ff that abuses the main bonus of the civ is the way to go in my opinion.

[Goodspeed]

It can still be viable to semi-FF if you know you aren't going to get punished for it. It's not a disaster to make rod huss in transition. In cases like that it's often nice to send 1000w 2 falc, going art foundry and then timing which is scary to a lot of civs.
Just saying, they don't always have to all in.

[Garja]

Yes aggressive but no crap-designed ff.

[SoldieR]

When I get home tonight Ill post a piro rec in rec forum

Wheres that piro rec

Thanks for callin me out I completely forgot, Ill check my recs when I get home ~1 hr. Tag me again in 2 hrs if I dont

[bugattivitesse]

Wheres that piro rec

Thanks for callin me out I completely forgot, Ill check my recs when I get home ~1 hr. Tag me again in 2 hrs if I dont

Ill be looking forward to it!

[SoldieR]

its up!
http://eso-community.net/thread/691/piroshiki-rec-omg

[divine_moon]

guys i have another rec of a match that piro actually WON, using this .. :O

been trying it against a pal online, he plays russia, &' ALWAYS strelet +cossack rushes, this makes it a bit difficult, any tips?

i know piro ages 12 vills :eyecrazy: i prefer to age 14, make maybe 1 in transition &' move up the age. would rods be a better option against massed strelets + a few musks? musk vs the strelet+musk combo is useless, as the strelets own the musks.

await help sirs.. :coffee:

[bart331]

guys i have another rec of a match that piro actually WON, using this .. :O

been trying it against a pal online, he plays russia, &' ALWAYS strelet +cossack rushes, this makes it a bit difficult, any tips?

i know piro ages 12 vills :eyecrazy: i prefer to age 14, make maybe 1 in transition &' move up the age. would rods be a better option against massed strelets + a few musks? musk vs the strelet+musk combo is useless, as the strelets own the musks.

await help sirs.. :coffee:

How about lancers? They fuck russia up pretty badly.

Also if you really want detailed advice about a situation it is helpfull to post a record game in recorded game section. That way people can see if there is not a different major flaw in ur gameplay affecting the outcome.

[divine_moon]

guys i have another rec of a match that piro actually WON, using this .. :O

been trying it against a pal online, he plays russia, &' ALWAYS strelet +cossack rushes, this makes it a bit difficult, any tips?

i know piro ages 12 vills :eyecrazy: i prefer to age 14, make maybe 1 in transition &' move up the age. would rods be a better option against massed strelets + a few musks? musk vs the strelet+musk combo is useless, as the strelets own the musks.

await help sirs.. :coffee:

How about lancers? They fuck russia up pretty badly.

Also if you really want detailed advice about a situation it is helpfull to post a record game in recorded game section. That way people can see if there is not a different major flaw in ur gameplay affecting the outcome.

yea i did try the lancers in the next game, they did cause quite a problem for him :bravo:

Shall put in recs next time sorry

The main problem i find with this strat is that i age with such a rekt eco, that it becomes difficult to balance it out, the other guy may remain an age behind but with 10/12 more vills &' a significantly larger mass (facepalm)

Much like the piro rec soldier posted, piro was literally fighting off his shipments when soldier pressed him.

Thinking of going up with 4 hussar against russia, + modify my build to make a stable instead of rax, to pump out 5 lancers in age2-3 transit (thats when the rushes hit).... still toying with the idea :7upspot:

[Jaeger]

How about lancers? They fuck russia up pretty badly.

Also if you really want detailed advice about a situation it is helpfull to post a record game in recorded game section. That way people can see if there is not a different major flaw in ur gameplay affecting the outcome.

yea i did try the lancers in the next game, they did cause quite a problem for him :bravo:

Shall put in recs next time sorry

The main problem i find with this strat is that i age with such a rekt eco, that it becomes difficult to balance it out, the other guy may remain an age behind but with 10/12 more vills &' a significantly larger mass (facepalm)

Much like the piro rec soldier posted, piro was literally fighting off his shipments when soldier pressed him.

Thinking of going up with 4 hussar against russia, + modify my build to make a stable instead of rax, to pump out 5 lancers in age2-3 transit (thats when the rushes hit).... still toying with the idea :7upspot:

If you age with 4 huss and ship/make lancers vs a rush, you might wanna ship 6 rods in transition to kill off the cossacks if you dont kill them with TC fire already, but you should ship just in case he makes stable early.

[_venox_]

It's about having the right amount of units at the right time' if you go for more units you will lack more units later on, and if you go for fewer units you will have more units later on. having 10 more muskets out early will cost you about 20-25 muskets later on in terms of resources, but if those 10 muskets earlier are better than the 25 muskets later then you should go for that. Also because other civs scale better later on it's mostly better to go for more units earlier on as spain but sacrificing your already worse scaling later on.

[Garja]

You guys seems to ignore the fact that havin more units early don't win games in 99% of cases.

[Jaeger]

You guys seems to ignore the fact that havin more units early don''t win games in 99% of cases.

If you get rushed you might need to ship units in transition, but yeah I like shipping 5v and always early market (never really more than 5s idle time even on 300f 100w if u find some small treasures) usually and vs civs that mass age 2 I like to do timing push with 20 pike+2 falcs+15-20 skirm+5 musk+4 lancers+dogs, people think you loose if you dont attack immediately with spain, but a lot of people underestimates the power of that push, it''s funny to mow down 50 musk trying to shoot down the cannons while they take shots from them, from 20 skirms 5 musk, and damage form 4 lancers and cover mode pikes.

[benj89]

waiting for 3 age3 shipment before push is way to long tho.
and someone who "mass age2" most likely won't let you do it anyway

[Jaeger]

waiting for 3 age3 shipment before push is way to long tho.
and someone who "mass age2" most likely won''t let you do it anyway

Well you can defend with falcs in base/pick off units or so, but with that build I try not to commit until the 4 lancers come. Usually I age with 8 pike, ship falcs>'12 pike>'4 lancers, and with 5v u can easily make constant 5 skirms. If they mass age 2 and attack, that''s probably your best shot at winning. I should mention I always tower in base when I go for this (which is most of the time). It''s also nice when they waste a lot of resources by going for your cannons with cav, since no amount of cav will get past 20 pike if you micro them well, cav are only useful after your cannons are dead or if you mismicro and loose the cannons to cav.

[divine_moon]

waiting for 3 age3 shipment before push is way to long tho.
and someone who "mass age2" most likely wont let you do it anyway

Well you can defend with falcs in base/pick off units or so, but with that build I try not to commit until the 4 lancers come. Usually I age with 8 pike, ship falcs>'12 pike>'4 lancers, and with 5v u can easily make constant 5 skirms. If they mass age 2 and attack, thats probably your best shot at winning. I should mention I always tower in base when I go for this (which is most of the time). Its also nice when they waste a lot of resources by going for your cannons with cav, since no amount of cav will get past 20 pike if you micro them well, cav are only useful after your cannons are dead or if you mismicro and loose the cannons to cav.

got outmassed evertime i played, russian with their strelet+musk +cossacks, or french with their 2rax musk spam, im guessing thisll work if the other guy ffs too...?

[Jaeger]

Well you can defend with falcs in base/pick off units or so, but with that build I try not to commit until the 4 lancers come. Usually I age with 8 pike, ship falcs>'12 pike>'4 lancers, and with 5v u can easily make constant 5 skirms. If they mass age 2 and attack, thats probably your best shot at winning. I should mention I always tower in base when I go for this (which is most of the time). Its also nice when they waste a lot of resources by going for your cannons with cav, since no amount of cav will get past 20 pike if you micro them well, cav are only useful after your cannons are dead or if you mismicro and loose the cannons to cav.

got outmassed evertime i played, russian with their strelet+musk +cossacks, or french with their 2rax musk spam, im guessing thisll work if the other guy ffs too...?

well the thing is you always get outmassed because your only military building is a rax, but you have better units' you have falconets, skirmishers, and lancers. You have to micro it very well. But yeah, spain is not that good after all so it still looses . Vs ff you have to do something more agressive, otherwise they just get cannons too and have everything you have only they have dragoons instead of pikemen and better eco If you want to see me do my strat we could play a game one time and I can show you.

[divine_moon]

got outmassed evertime i played, russian with their strelet+musk +cossacks, or french with their 2rax musk spam, im guessing thisll work if the other guy ffs too...?

well the thing is you always get outmassed because your only military building is a rax, but you have better units' you have falconets, skirmishers, and lancers. You have to micro it very well. But yeah, spain is not that good after all so it still looses . Vs ff you have to do something more agressive, otherwise they just get cannons too and have everything you have only they have dragoons instead of pikemen and better eco If you want to see me do my strat we could play a game one time and I can show you.

yea sure, id love to play a game against u.. :7upspot:only im not very hi rated so :mean: if ure ok with that im cool ...
trying desperately to use spain &' ports... :clint:

UP civs can be interesting to deal with :bravo:

[Jaeger]

well the thing is you always get outmassed because your only military building is a rax, but you have better units' you have falconets, skirmishers, and lancers. You have to micro it very well. But yeah, spain is not that good after all so it still looses . Vs ff you have to do something more agressive, otherwise they just get cannons too and have everything you have only they have dragoons instead of pikemen and better eco If you want to see me do my strat we could play a game one time and I can show you.

yea sure, id love to play a game against u.. :7upspot:only im not very hi rated so :mean: if ure ok with that im cool ...
trying desperately to use spain &' ports... :clint:

UP civs can be interesting to deal with :bravo:

Yeah thats fine my eso name is Ovi12 we can play now if you want.

[divine_moon]

in 10 minutes? i just got home...

[_venox_]

What about 3v 700c 700w 5v rods in transition and in fort sending 1k wood 1k food to fuel double rax rod/skirm, getting second food and coin from the 700w? Or not even going for a second rax and just a stable for rod/lancer? Only lancer if your enemy isn't likely to do a musk colo or musk semi, since musk + falcs beat rod/lancer and by the time your falcs arrive after 1k food it's quite late. I know 1k food is really bad but it fuels your 2 military buildings so you get out full batches, instead of sending army and getting out half batches. Or is the usual build after 1k wood just 8 rods 4 lancers 2 falcs??