How to FI as Aztec

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Italy Garja
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Garja »

German are kinda akward because they don't really have a good late game unit. Actually skirm (royal guard) and ulhans with ups might be enough. They can also probably just play age3 as long as they keep pressure while booming. Aztecs could stay fortress as well tho and have a chance. Germans are just not very flexible.
Lot of other civs can just play macro beat this. Port for example even without outstanding units can just go for a very standard cassas+goons+organs (or w/e meatshield unit if necessary) and mass organs alone force Aztecs to produce something different from maces and skulls. Just be sure the war chief doesn't trade too well and then kill the firepit.
The point is to play macro tho. And maybe doing some damage while Aztecs are doing this thing just to buy more time (eco needs bit of time to pay off over stuff like infinite maces card).
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

The warchief will rape your organs, you're simply not goona kill a guy with 4000 HP and 55% RR.
You can make spies but then the azzy player won't take a frontal fight and at one point he will rape your organs trust me.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

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You kill it easy if you focus fire asap. And if firepit is busy reviving it all the time (100exp everytime btw) it's not producing skulls, nor giving you exp. And btw I don't think it gets 4000hp, more like 2000 or so.
But anyway the point is not what units work and what not. The point is that if you do things correctly you end up with 2x his eco so you can basically just throw units at his firepit and win with powerplay. Every trade done efficiently is just an extra.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by lordraphael »

showmatch garja vs rouga Civ X vs azzie FI. Bo 7
Personally I think the wc bug is just to OP as long you get to IV not completly crippled ( you can be utterly crippled and still win if opponent is not III ), you win
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Totally agree with raph.
And it does get 4000 hp (4200 iirc).
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by KINGofOsmane »

another 4:0...
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"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Garja »

lol
We can do aztec mirror to begin with. If normal play beats the FI it means that FI is not OP otherwise normal play would be even more.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by KINGofOsmane »

damn garja
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Lecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Mimsy for President »

Garja wrote:lol
We can do aztec mirror to begin with. If normal play beats the FI it means that FI is not OP otherwise normal play would be even more.
diarouga clearly said: "Vs azzy, RE iro, russia and otto it's just not possible."
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by momuuu »

Rule 1: Dont argue with Garja if you want to keep sanity.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Garja »

Mimsy for President wrote:
Garja wrote:lol
We can do aztec mirror to begin with. If normal play beats the FI it means that FI is not OP otherwise normal play would be even more.
diarouga clearly said: "Vs azzy, RE iro, russia and otto it's just not possible."

Well, first he says it's very strong and it wins games. Then he proceeds saying it doesn't work vs some civs. Then he says it works if you get to age IV without damage. Those are lot of conditions lol. 70% of strats work if you put so many "if".
Anyway it's sad you guys get impressed over strats like this. As I said, if that's the case for the Aztec FI, then lots of FI are also OP.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by deleted_user0 »

Mimsy for President wrote:I wonder if musk huss can stop this bs.



you can stop this in colonial, you can stop it in fortress, but once it hits IV you can't stop it with most civs offensively. Though I think I have an answer to this strat. The sad thing about it though, is that basically the only reason it works is because of the explorer bug. now it just takes so long to kill the xplorer and you can't really ignore him, so you are constantly busy with the xplorer. basically you need to come with armies from 3 sides so he can't be everywhere to defend. Spider xiande or aiz style would work good vs this.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

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Jerom wrote:Rule 1: Dont argue with Garja if you want to keep sanity.


good rule
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by deleted_user0 »

Garja wrote:This strat is like 2 years old tho, has nothing to do with the new meta. And actually is more successfull on RE due to the maps.
It shouldn't really work in a tourney game, but it's the typical strat that requires more effort than supposed to be countered.


its alot older lol. i remember i got rekt by this once when i was new to tad lol. so that was like 4 years ago. and it was some random captain that did it to me, so i doubt he invented it.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by lordraphael »

umeu wrote:
Garja wrote:This strat is like 2 years old tho, has nothing to do with the new meta. And actually is more successfull on RE due to the maps.
It shouldn't really work in a tourney game, but it's the typical strat that requires more effort than supposed to be countered.


its alot older lol. i remember i got rekt by this once when i was new to tad lol. so that was like 4 years ago. and it was some random captain that did it to me, so i doubt he invented it.

its even older:) I remember i got rekt by it when i was a lt on tad which was in late 2009 i believe. :P Fun fact: the guy who beat me with it still plays occasionally i think ( he was pr 28 back then iirc and still is sth around that level now, but i cant remember his name )
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by lordraphael »

Garja wrote:
Mimsy for President wrote:
Garja wrote:lol
We can do aztec mirror to begin with. If normal play beats the FI it means that FI is not OP otherwise normal play would be even more.
diarouga clearly said: "Vs azzy, RE iro, russia and otto it's just not possible."

Well, first he says it's very strong and it wins games. Then he proceeds saying it doesn't work vs some civs. Then he says it works if you get to age IV without damage. Those are lot of conditions lol. 70% of strats work if you put so many "if".
Anyway it's sad you guys get impressed over strats like this. As I said, if that's the case for the Aztec FI, then lots of FI are also OP.

i never played it but i watched dias stream when he did it and I also watched boneng doing it sucessfully many times ( and honestly if boneng wins with it, its OP :P ) and I think its insanely good. Ofc you need to be clever and be a good player to get to IV but that shouldnt be to hard asssuming you know what youre doing.
Also RE Iro and otto is literally the lamest shit ever so its not really surprising, Most strats that deviate from " std " play dont work in mirrors so its not surprising either that it doesnt work in azzie mirrors .
Not entirely sure why it shouldnt work vs russia but i guess its probably because you cant use shit like mm and cav pops to kill their stre mass and so its hard to even get to IV without drowning in units. However i can imagine that once you have established a "balance of fright" you can savely get away with aging to III and IV consecutively in that mu.
Japs have been doing this strat for years (arguably they are usually pretty bad in crafting efficent builds, but they know perfectly how to abuse OP mechanics ) so if dia says its strong then I believe him because im sure that hes doing it way more efficent than jap guys while the abusable and OP shit that azzie has remains the same.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by momuuu »

Youre wrong because its an old strat raphael and because the maps have more hunts now.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

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Ye it's possible it's from 2011 or so in its abusable fashion. In 2009 people (actually just few guys I think) used to probably just turtle with 10wp and spam shipments in fortress or turtle till calling all the BBs (there was a popular Damint rec back then doing that).
Anyway it's op in the sense that it takes more effort to beat it than actually doing it, but still shouldn't work vs proper play.
Btw I also assume he improved the build (for example 3wp first instead of 5v 3wp that jap players do a lot) but looking at this post it could be improved even more (I do that actually). I generally do this strat on Texas were it is both safer and also more powerful because of limited resources. Also you can do this thing making 5 puma to kill shrines vs Japan.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by momuuu »

Rule 2: if you think you do something well remember garja has thought of it and done it better than you have before you were even born.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Garja »

You joke about it, but given that I've been around in this game more than the average guy it is just normal that I've seen more stuff. Also, dunno if that's really the case, but probably the majority of players ignore the fact that jap guys have like a library of 14k TAD recs on their site, so most of the abusable stuff is there already.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by lordraphael »

Jerom wrote:Youre wrong because its an old strat raphael and because the maps have more hunts now.

about what am i wrong that its an old strat ? I just said i faced it in 2009 which is quite old imo. Or thats its not working. Not sure what you mean with im wrong
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by momuuu »

Ive been around long enough to remember you being a major, yet diarouga knows more about the game than I do oh great garjalogix.

If youre such a genius, please tell me how every civ beats it and then just go beat diarouga with it, or boneng.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by momuuu »

lordraphael wrote:
Jerom wrote:Youre wrong because its an old strat raphael and because the maps have more hunts now.

about what am i wrong that its an old strat ? I just said i faced it in 2009 which is quite old imo. Or thats its not working. Not sure what you mean with im wrong

I was ridiculing garja.
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by zoom »

Garja wrote:
Mimsy for President wrote:
Garja wrote:lol
We can do aztec mirror to begin with. If normal play beats the FI it means that FI is not OP otherwise normal play would be even more.
diarouga clearly said: "Vs azzy, RE iro, russia and otto it's just not possible."
Well, first he says it's very strong and it wins games. Then he proceeds saying it doesn't work vs some civs. Then he says it works if you get to age IV without damage. Those are lot of conditions lol. 70% of strats work if you put so many "if".
Anyway it's sad you guys get impressed over strats like this. As I said, if that's the case for the Aztec FI, then lots of FI are also OP.
Diarouga never claimed that the strategy wins unconditionally in every scenario. If anything it's to his credit that he advises against using the strategy when it is weak. Besides, those seem like reasonable conditions to me, so what's your point?

You then proceed to suggest testing the viability of the strategy of the OP in a scenario where the OP explicitly states it is not viable. In other words, you plan on discrediting an entire concept by proving correct a single one of its self-stated exceptions. Please read the previous sentence carefully one more time, let it sink in and consider it thoroughly.


[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-mqPpGSgc&index=42&list=PLbQ-gSLYQEc6IWgKJNOMUONgtNXdwVcDC&t=8s[/video]

[spoiler=Key to the video]The AC-adapter of the ColecoVision is a metaphore for your idea of the test scenario[/spoiler]

Finally, what is sad about community members showing their appreciation for a guide on a meta-defying strategy?
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Re: How to FI as Aztec

Post by Garja »

Jerom wrote:Ive been around long enough to remember you being a major, yet diarouga knows more about the game than I do oh great garjalogix.

If youre such a genius, please tell me how every civ beats it and then just go beat diarouga with it, or boneng.

Ye that's 2009 I think, but I doubt you spent more than 1/5 of the time I spent on this game (and maybe it's better you didn't lol).
As for your challenge (which is kinda beyond my point anyway), I could do that. But this thing of proving stuff every time gets boring lol. If you don't believe me, atleast trust h2o who said the exact same thing.
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