Tip of the Day — trample mode
Tip of the Day — trample mode
I’m back with another tip, this time let’s have a brief look on trample mode usage.
TRAMPLE MODE
Presumably, everyone once encountered a statement that a trample mode is really bad. I imagine the route of changes in looking at this particular issue pretty much goes in that way for the vast majority of Age of Empires 3 players: first off, you don’t use this feature as you’re not aware of its existence; later on, you discover in the settings section that „Advanced formations” are a thing, and probably think: „Wow, it’s so great! I can deal additional splash damage! And my units look cool, too!”. After that, you’re probably told by some „AoE3 multiplayer pro” that you’re such a noob, that trample mode is terrible, and you know nothing about the game… Eventually, you humbly clear your mind, forgetting completely about this possibility of charging.
In conclusion, an average acknowledged reader of this tip has in mind that it is indeed awful. As our most favourite and beloved weekly host John Oliver would express his doubts: but is it, though?! I’m here today, unfortunately not on HBO (yet?), to prove you wrong!
First of all, let’s all familiarise with the trample mode itself. How does it even affect units, you ask? Well, it looks pretty simple at the first glance, but frankly, I have to admit that even I was somewhat surprised by some of the features, which are sometimes complicated. Here they are, listed below:
- trample mode is available only for hand cavalry with „hand cavalry” and „heavy cavalry” tags, exception: Flail Elephant (primary tag: „siege unit”);
- in trample mode units’ attack is significantly decreased, although sheer numbers differ a lot, mostly depending on ancestries:
-- European cavalry – Hussars, Uhlans, Cossacks, Oprichniks, Cuirassiers, Lancers, Spahi – receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- European mercenary cavalry – Elmetis, Mamelukes, Hackapells, Stradiots – also receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- Native cavalry — Axe Riders, Lakota Axe Riders, Dog Soldiers, Tashunke Prowlers, Cheyenne Riders – receives a —1/2 penalty, with the exception of Kanya Horsemen, who get 23 attack instead of 27, so —4 penalty, which is about 1/7 of 27, Sioux War Chief — no changes,
-- Asian cavalry: Naginata Riders — —1/4 penalty, Sowars — 11 attack instead of 20, which is about —0.45% decrease, Mahout Lancers and Indian monks — no changes, Jat Lancers – about —15% penalty, Meteor Hammers — —1/3 penalty, Iron Flails — —10% penalty, Steppe Riders — —1/2 penalty, Sufi War Elephants — no changes; all Daimyos — —1/3 penalty, Shogun Tokugawa — —1/4 penalty, Regent — +1/2 .
As you can see, it makes little sense and is rather illogical. I’m not sure what the developers’ intentions behind these numbers were, as most of the times they seem pretty random;
- in trample mode the speed of units is divided by two;
- in trample mode units gain 3 splash area to their base attack, with a few exceptions regarding cavalry already having splash damage, like Cuirassiers, whose attack area remains unchanged (2), Tashunke Prowlers, who gain additional 2 area (4 overall), Mahout Lancers and Indian monks, whom the trample mode doesn’t affect at all (they still have 2 splash), and Iron Flail: 1 base + 1 additional = 2 area.
Honestly, I didn’t think it would take so much effort to describe it! Now that we have it revised, though, we can take a moment to learn about the trample damage.
As the description of this particular formation puts it: „Units do extra trample damage while taking extra damage in the process”. It doesn’t sound clear, does it? Any numbers, percentages, fractions?! Ok, ok! The rule is simple, although I imagine unexpected a bit: the unit dealing trample damage takes half the dealt damage to other units. To put that in perspective: if a Hussar with 20 base damage + 3 splash area attacks 3 Strelets (focusing on the middle one), who take – let’s say – 10+20+10 damage, the Hussar then takes half the damage put on Strelets (so to speak), so 20, not to mention the damage taken from the shooting Strelets.
A popular belief among the community I’ve recently came across is that your units in the trample mode harm other troops of yours when in range of splash. It’s a myth, that doesn’t happen, the only unit taking extra damage is itself the unit attacking, no friendly-fire allowed!
Trivia time: units do not die because of the use of trample mode — they need to be killed by other troops. If a horseman has 1 HP and attacks in the trample mode, the health bar will remain unchanged.
As you can tell by the Hussar's healt bar, it has only 1 HP!
At this stage of this a-bit-too-long write-up, we’re all perfectly familiarised with the way the trample mode works. Even average players now can easily spot major disadvantages of this formation, some of which I’d like to point out here, too.
The most obvious drawback and simultaneously the most important one is the reduction of speed. 6.5+ movement speed is one of the biggest cavalry’s advantage, as it is very flexible, versatile, can be used to raid, is able to effortlessly come back to defend one’s base and at the same time has no problems whatsoever to reinforce the main push on the opponent quickly, not to mention the snaring effect. Moreover, in the heat of the battle, cavalry units can quickly flank enemy’s weak lines and cause havoc in them. But wait, you surely wonder at this very moment and say: „pecelot, you fool! You can easily micro your cavalry so that it switches to the trample mode only when it reaches opponent’s troops!”. You’re right, although it’s very micro intensive. You really should spend your APM on something else, plus your opponent may use their actions per minute to spread his army, so that your splash damage is ineffective. And even if they don’t commit to microing so hard, are your efforts really worth it?
Another powerful hand cavalry characteristic, apart from the aforementioned goodspeed, is their high HP count. Heavy cavalry is supposed to tank while dealing good damage — with trample mode, unfortunately, it becomes rather impossible, as you harm yourself additionally. In my humble opinion, taking extra damage while doing more of reduced attack isn’t the way to go. Let’s move back to the Hussar vs 3 Strelets example. With each hit the Hussar deals 40 damage while taking 32 (20 from himself + 4 from each Strelet) — without the trample mode, his attack would equal to 30, while Strelets would be dealing only 12. Basically, when in trample mode in such a case, one exchanges 30 attack to 40 (33,(3)% increase) for 12 damage taken to 32 (166,(6)% increase). Players’ main goal is to keep their cavalry alive, as it is dangerous in combat — don’t suicide them then in such a manner!
One should not ingnore yet another factor — the damage spread. It’s more effective to pick the Strelets one-by-one than harming each one a bit for longer, as the sooner you get rid of one, the less overall damage you take. It’s like microing your cavalry in Hussars or Uhlans war, you know the drill.
But hey, isn’t it denying my previous statement that the trample mode is somewhat viable? It certainly is, I wanted to fully familiarise you with the formation, which generally isn’t considered bad for no reason, so that you can now think of situations, in which it may occur advantageous to give it a go. There’s undeniably one, on which initially I wanted to focus: fighting against low-HP Minutemen.
The thing with enemy Minutemen is that you want to get rid of them as soon as possible. If your opponent calls them, you usually back off for a bit, wait until their HP counts deteriorate, and then come back, as they are not as strong as they were before. But usually it’s not easy to pick them off, as your opponent can kite, run away from your main army etc. One trick I’d like to strongly recommend is to send one cavalry unit of yours if available, ride it at full speed to low-HP MM, quickly switch to the trample mode and attack the middle one. If alone, not grouped with other types of units, they are always positioned horizontally, in one line — therefore, if you attack the one surrounded by his fellow companions, you kill 5 of them with just one hit, quickly preventing them from shooting at you. You of course take extra damage, but since your own damage output equals to 5 (remember: they are 1-HP Minutemen), you’re only denied 2 or 3 HP, instead of another twenties from shooting MM. It’s not such a big deal in terms of micro either, you just have to commit 1 or 2 more seconds to properly switch between the normal melee mode and the trample mode (and vice-versa).
Obviously, Minutemen aren’t the only ones it becomes viable against. If you spot low-HP units of any kind, primarily ranged infantry (sometimes wrongly associated with light infantry), like Skirmishers, go for it! Quickly switch to the trample mode to deal with them in the blink of an eye!
Additionally, one should not forget about an aforementioned certain fact, which is a bit trivial-looking at first: units do not die because of the usage of the trample mode — if you happen to find yourself in a situation, in which you’re left with a low-HP hand cavalry unit, put in in the trample mode to enlarge the attack output, as the damage taken by the unit itself becomes irrelevant, since it’ll be killed most probably by a single volley of shots.
So there you go, I hope you learned something today. The first part of this post is rather trivial, as the trample mode doesn’t see much usage in any game type, what I want to remember more, though, is the tip about quickly dealing with low-HP Minutemen by using only one horse rider, which may become quite handy in a not-so-small number of games!
And of course, please „like” the post if you find it useful and helpful to let me know about the quality of my content. Feel free to share your thoughts, feelings, dreams and emotions about the logic of the trample mode!
TRAMPLE MODE
Presumably, everyone once encountered a statement that a trample mode is really bad. I imagine the route of changes in looking at this particular issue pretty much goes in that way for the vast majority of Age of Empires 3 players: first off, you don’t use this feature as you’re not aware of its existence; later on, you discover in the settings section that „Advanced formations” are a thing, and probably think: „Wow, it’s so great! I can deal additional splash damage! And my units look cool, too!”. After that, you’re probably told by some „AoE3 multiplayer pro” that you’re such a noob, that trample mode is terrible, and you know nothing about the game… Eventually, you humbly clear your mind, forgetting completely about this possibility of charging.
In conclusion, an average acknowledged reader of this tip has in mind that it is indeed awful. As our most favourite and beloved weekly host John Oliver would express his doubts: but is it, though?! I’m here today, unfortunately not on HBO (yet?), to prove you wrong!
First of all, let’s all familiarise with the trample mode itself. How does it even affect units, you ask? Well, it looks pretty simple at the first glance, but frankly, I have to admit that even I was somewhat surprised by some of the features, which are sometimes complicated. Here they are, listed below:
- trample mode is available only for hand cavalry with „hand cavalry” and „heavy cavalry” tags, exception: Flail Elephant (primary tag: „siege unit”);
- in trample mode units’ attack is significantly decreased, although sheer numbers differ a lot, mostly depending on ancestries:
-- European cavalry – Hussars, Uhlans, Cossacks, Oprichniks, Cuirassiers, Lancers, Spahi – receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- European mercenary cavalry – Elmetis, Mamelukes, Hackapells, Stradiots – also receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- Native cavalry — Axe Riders, Lakota Axe Riders, Dog Soldiers, Tashunke Prowlers, Cheyenne Riders – receives a —1/2 penalty, with the exception of Kanya Horsemen, who get 23 attack instead of 27, so —4 penalty, which is about 1/7 of 27, Sioux War Chief — no changes,
-- Asian cavalry: Naginata Riders — —1/4 penalty, Sowars — 11 attack instead of 20, which is about —0.45% decrease, Mahout Lancers and Indian monks — no changes, Jat Lancers – about —15% penalty, Meteor Hammers — —1/3 penalty, Iron Flails — —10% penalty, Steppe Riders — —1/2 penalty, Sufi War Elephants — no changes; all Daimyos — —1/3 penalty, Shogun Tokugawa — —1/4 penalty, Regent — +1/2 .
As you can see, it makes little sense and is rather illogical. I’m not sure what the developers’ intentions behind these numbers were, as most of the times they seem pretty random;
- in trample mode the speed of units is divided by two;
- in trample mode units gain 3 splash area to their base attack, with a few exceptions regarding cavalry already having splash damage, like Cuirassiers, whose attack area remains unchanged (2), Tashunke Prowlers, who gain additional 2 area (4 overall), Mahout Lancers and Indian monks, whom the trample mode doesn’t affect at all (they still have 2 splash), and Iron Flail: 1 base + 1 additional = 2 area.
Honestly, I didn’t think it would take so much effort to describe it! Now that we have it revised, though, we can take a moment to learn about the trample damage.
As the description of this particular formation puts it: „Units do extra trample damage while taking extra damage in the process”. It doesn’t sound clear, does it? Any numbers, percentages, fractions?! Ok, ok! The rule is simple, although I imagine unexpected a bit: the unit dealing trample damage takes half the dealt damage to other units. To put that in perspective: if a Hussar with 20 base damage + 3 splash area attacks 3 Strelets (focusing on the middle one), who take – let’s say – 10+20+10 damage, the Hussar then takes half the damage put on Strelets (so to speak), so 20, not to mention the damage taken from the shooting Strelets.
A popular belief among the community I’ve recently came across is that your units in the trample mode harm other troops of yours when in range of splash. It’s a myth, that doesn’t happen, the only unit taking extra damage is itself the unit attacking, no friendly-fire allowed!
Trivia time: units do not die because of the use of trample mode — they need to be killed by other troops. If a horseman has 1 HP and attacks in the trample mode, the health bar will remain unchanged.
As you can tell by the Hussar's healt bar, it has only 1 HP!
At this stage of this a-bit-too-long write-up, we’re all perfectly familiarised with the way the trample mode works. Even average players now can easily spot major disadvantages of this formation, some of which I’d like to point out here, too.
The most obvious drawback and simultaneously the most important one is the reduction of speed. 6.5+ movement speed is one of the biggest cavalry’s advantage, as it is very flexible, versatile, can be used to raid, is able to effortlessly come back to defend one’s base and at the same time has no problems whatsoever to reinforce the main push on the opponent quickly, not to mention the snaring effect. Moreover, in the heat of the battle, cavalry units can quickly flank enemy’s weak lines and cause havoc in them. But wait, you surely wonder at this very moment and say: „pecelot, you fool! You can easily micro your cavalry so that it switches to the trample mode only when it reaches opponent’s troops!”. You’re right, although it’s very micro intensive. You really should spend your APM on something else, plus your opponent may use their actions per minute to spread his army, so that your splash damage is ineffective. And even if they don’t commit to microing so hard, are your efforts really worth it?
Another powerful hand cavalry characteristic, apart from the aforementioned goodspeed, is their high HP count. Heavy cavalry is supposed to tank while dealing good damage — with trample mode, unfortunately, it becomes rather impossible, as you harm yourself additionally. In my humble opinion, taking extra damage while doing more of reduced attack isn’t the way to go. Let’s move back to the Hussar vs 3 Strelets example. With each hit the Hussar deals 40 damage while taking 32 (20 from himself + 4 from each Strelet) — without the trample mode, his attack would equal to 30, while Strelets would be dealing only 12. Basically, when in trample mode in such a case, one exchanges 30 attack to 40 (33,(3)% increase) for 12 damage taken to 32 (166,(6)% increase). Players’ main goal is to keep their cavalry alive, as it is dangerous in combat — don’t suicide them then in such a manner!
One should not ingnore yet another factor — the damage spread. It’s more effective to pick the Strelets one-by-one than harming each one a bit for longer, as the sooner you get rid of one, the less overall damage you take. It’s like microing your cavalry in Hussars or Uhlans war, you know the drill.
But hey, isn’t it denying my previous statement that the trample mode is somewhat viable? It certainly is, I wanted to fully familiarise you with the formation, which generally isn’t considered bad for no reason, so that you can now think of situations, in which it may occur advantageous to give it a go. There’s undeniably one, on which initially I wanted to focus: fighting against low-HP Minutemen.
The thing with enemy Minutemen is that you want to get rid of them as soon as possible. If your opponent calls them, you usually back off for a bit, wait until their HP counts deteriorate, and then come back, as they are not as strong as they were before. But usually it’s not easy to pick them off, as your opponent can kite, run away from your main army etc. One trick I’d like to strongly recommend is to send one cavalry unit of yours if available, ride it at full speed to low-HP MM, quickly switch to the trample mode and attack the middle one. If alone, not grouped with other types of units, they are always positioned horizontally, in one line — therefore, if you attack the one surrounded by his fellow companions, you kill 5 of them with just one hit, quickly preventing them from shooting at you. You of course take extra damage, but since your own damage output equals to 5 (remember: they are 1-HP Minutemen), you’re only denied 2 or 3 HP, instead of another twenties from shooting MM. It’s not such a big deal in terms of micro either, you just have to commit 1 or 2 more seconds to properly switch between the normal melee mode and the trample mode (and vice-versa).
Obviously, Minutemen aren’t the only ones it becomes viable against. If you spot low-HP units of any kind, primarily ranged infantry (sometimes wrongly associated with light infantry), like Skirmishers, go for it! Quickly switch to the trample mode to deal with them in the blink of an eye!
Additionally, one should not forget about an aforementioned certain fact, which is a bit trivial-looking at first: units do not die because of the usage of the trample mode — if you happen to find yourself in a situation, in which you’re left with a low-HP hand cavalry unit, put in in the trample mode to enlarge the attack output, as the damage taken by the unit itself becomes irrelevant, since it’ll be killed most probably by a single volley of shots.
So there you go, I hope you learned something today. The first part of this post is rather trivial, as the trample mode doesn’t see much usage in any game type, what I want to remember more, though, is the tip about quickly dealing with low-HP Minutemen by using only one horse rider, which may become quite handy in a not-so-small number of games!
And of course, please „like” the post if you find it useful and helpful to let me know about the quality of my content. Feel free to share your thoughts, feelings, dreams and emotions about the logic of the trample mode!
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Wow, someone has got mad spare time.
- KINGofOsmane
- Pro Player
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
bait of the day lol
"Losing to Callen was the worst night of my life" Gibthedurrty 2019
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
"If hazza can get pr42 with team i can get pr50 with 1v1" Gibthedurrty 2018
Tete cs:go experienceLecastete wrote: Dude i hate this game. I am bad and i also dont have luck
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
To just sum this up: trample mode is useful if used against a batch of low HP units resulting in making it too much of a hazzle to be worth it.
Trample mode nullifies both of the factors that hand cav need the most: Speed and HP.
Only unit with which I find it worth it to trample mode are hakkapells. They are not used to tank, they can spread their massive attack in a far more efficient way and reduce the huge overkill.
In any case: Great Job and Well Done!
Trample mode nullifies both of the factors that hand cav need the most: Speed and HP.
Only unit with which I find it worth it to trample mode are hakkapells. They are not used to tank, they can spread their massive attack in a far more efficient way and reduce the huge overkill.
In any case: Great Job and Well Done!
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Nice summary, thanks @yemshi
Although to be fair, Hackapells die very quickly regardless of the mode, isn't it better to keep them alive for as long as possible to extend their lifetime, which means more DPS?
!yemshi wrote:notification
Although to be fair, Hackapells die very quickly regardless of the mode, isn't it better to keep them alive for as long as possible to extend their lifetime, which means more DPS?
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
That is a question I'd generally answer with yes but given the huge overkill they have, I'd even say no.
That does not mean that I would do it though. I'm not fast enough to switch between both formations, and not being able to draw your units back makes me really think twice about my answer.
That does not mean that I would do it though. I'm not fast enough to switch between both formations, and not being able to draw your units back makes me really think twice about my answer.
- P i k i l i c
- Howdah
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Wow this could not be better explained, the other unit I learnt trample mode was useful with when browsing ESOC was the Jat Lancer, but they are even less used than hackapells anyway
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
@pecelot
you OPpecelot wrote:notification
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
P i k i l i c wrote:Wow this could not be better explained, the other unit I learnt trample mode was useful with when browsing ESOC was the Jat Lancer, but they are even less used than hackapells anyway
Thanks, indeed, Jat Lancers receive a relatively small penalty, only about 15% of their attack is taken when in trample mode, so it actually may be worth a try should you have them mixed in your army...
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
You can train them only with the Indian Saloon Card or you need to age to IV (still as India that is) and send them via a homecity shipment.
Problem is that you have three problems if you have reached that stage of the game:
1)You usually age to IV if the game turns into a longterm game.
2) Urumis are just better
3) They cost 1000 coin for 6 lancers, which is quite a bit if you FI. And they still get countered by dragoons.
An Urumi popup out of the TC kills ANY unit that gets hit (500f, 7 Urumi is way cheaper as well).
Problem is that you have three problems if you have reached that stage of the game:
1)You usually age to IV if the game turns into a longterm game.
2) Urumis are just better
3) They cost 1000 coin for 6 lancers, which is quite a bit if you FI. And they still get countered by dragoons.
An Urumi popup out of the TC kills ANY unit that gets hit (500f, 7 Urumi is way cheaper as well).
- P i k i l i c
- Howdah
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
yemshi wrote:You can train them only with the Indian Saloon Card or you need to age to IV (still as India that is) and send them via a homecity shipment.
Problem is that you have three problems if you have reached that stage of the game:
1)You usually age to IV if the game turns into a longterm game.
2) Urumis are just better
3) They cost 1000 coin for 6 lancers, which is quite a bit if you FI. And they still get countered by dragoons.
An Urumi popup out of the TC kills ANY unit that gets hit (500f, 7 Urumi is way cheaper as well).
That is true, as I said, the main issue is you dont use them
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Exactly, the point was that Jat Lancers' trample mode is effective, not that they are so as well.
- howlingwolfpaw
- Jaeger
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
thanks for explaining the "taking extra damage" part.... now it seems trample is even worse than I imagined.... what was the designers thinking in adding this feature? its almost like its in reverse to take away speed for a trample unit... the idea was a heavy cav charge to run over and break up enemy formations. this also added extra damage from the attackers because lances at speed could actually penetrate plate armor (not easily but offered enough damage to kill), which is why heavy cav charges were so feared. (mainly speaking medieval times but the principles are the same for stength added to a saber attack at speed)
- Akechi_Mitsuhide
- Dragoon
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Trample mode is just viable in really rare situations. That makes it almost not viable at all.
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
@howlingwolfpaw
What I would invent in this case, though, would be to change the design of the trample mode to resemble a charge mode, most likely from other games. I'd reduce the resist of units in such a formation (or even make it a „negative resist", so that they would take even more damage) while either enlarging their attack or adding splash area.
@Akechi
, I guess the thinking process behing the current outlook of this feature was that the designers thought it was too overpowered and nerfed it to the ground. It indeed sounds scary — additional splash damage for cavalry, which already possess the snaring ability? Perhaps they didn't know back then about main strengths of hand cavalry — which I highly doubt, judging by the Knight example from AoC — so they weakened these particular characteristics... I'm not quite sure about anything here, as I wrote in the opening post, it generally seems somewhat random, looking at these penalties, for instance.howlingwolfpaw wrote:notification
What I would invent in this case, though, would be to change the design of the trample mode to resemble a charge mode, most likely from other games. I'd reduce the resist of units in such a formation (or even make it a „negative resist", so that they would take even more damage) while either enlarging their attack or adding splash area.
@Akechi
Mitsuhide , true, that's why I described the issue, as one particular case seems to favour trample mode, and overall it turns out it can be advantageous. Very situational, but advantageous.Akechi wrote:notification
- Ucanwinnewcivsanmaps
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
pecelot wrote:I’m back with another tip, this time let’s have a brief look on trample mode usage.
TRAMPLE MODE
Presumably, everyone once encountered a statement that a trample mode is really bad. I imagine the route of changes in looking at this particular issue pretty much goes in that way for the vast majority of Age of Empires 3 players: first off, you don’t use this feature as you’re not aware of its existence; later on, you discover in the settings section that „Advanced formations” are a thing, and probably think: „Wow, it’s so great! I can deal additional splash damage! And my units look cool, too!”. After that, you’re probably told by some „AoE3 multiplayer pro” that you’re such a noob, that trample mode is terrible, and you know nothing about the game… Eventually, you humbly clear your mind, forgetting completely about this possibility of charging.
In conclusion, an average acknowledged reader of this tip has in mind that it is indeed awful. As our most favourite and beloved weekly host John Oliver would express his doubts: but is it, though?! I’m here today, unfortunately not on HBO (yet?), to prove you wrong!
First of all, let’s all familiarise with the trample mode itself. How does it even affect units, you ask? Well, it looks pretty simple at the first glance, but frankly, I have to admit that even I was somewhat surprised by some of the features, which are sometimes complicated. Here they are, listed below:
- trample mode is available only for hand cavalry with „hand cavalry” and „heavy cavalry” tags, exception: Flail Elephant (primary tag: „siege unit”);
- in trample mode units’ attack is significantly decreased, although sheer numbers differ a lot, mostly depending on ancestries:
-- European cavalry – Hussars, Uhlans, Cossacks, Oprichniks, Cuirassiers, Lancers, Spahi – receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- European mercenary cavalry – Elmetis, Mamelukes, Hackapells, Stradiots – also receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- Native cavalry — Axe Riders, Lakota Axe Riders, Dog Soldiers, Tashunke Prowlers, Cheyenne Riders – receives a —1/2 penalty, with the exception of Kanya Horsemen, who get 23 attack instead of 27, so —4 penalty, which is about 1/7 of 27,
-- Asian cavalry: Naginata Riders — —1/4 penalty, Sowars — 11 attack instead of 20, which is about —0.45% decrease, Mahout Lancers and Indian monks — no changes whatsoever, Jat Lancers – about —15% penalty, Meteor Hammers — —1/3 penalty, Iron Flails — —10% penalty, Steppe Riders — —1/2 penalty, Sufi War Elephants — no changes; all Daimyos — —1/3 penalty, Shogun Tokugawa — —1/4 penalty, Regent — +1/2 :O,
As you can see, it makes little sense and is rather illogical. I’m not sure what the developers’ intentions behind these numbers were, as most of the times they seem pretty random;
- in trample mode the speed of units is divided by two;
- in trample mode units gain 3 splash area to their base attack, with a few exceptions regarding cavalry already having splash damage, like Cuirassiers, whose attack area remains unchanged (2), Tashunke Prowlers, who gain additional 2 area (4 overall), Mahout Lancers and Indian monks, whom the trample mode doesn’t affect at all (they still have 2 splash), and Iron Flail: 1 base + 1 additional = 2 area.
Honestly, I didn’t think it would take so much effort to describe it! Now that we have it revised, though, we can take a moment to learn about the trample damage.
As the description of this particular formation puts it: „Units do extra trample damage while taking extra damage in the process”. It doesn’t sound clear, does it? Any numbers, percentages, fractions?! Ok, ok! The rule is simple, although I imagine unexpected a bit: the unit dealing trample damage takes half the dealt damage to other units. To put that in perspective: if a Hussar with 20 base damage + 3 splash area attacks 3 Strelets (focusing on the middle one), who take – let’s say – 10+20+10 damage, the Hussar then takes half the damage put on Strelets (so to speak), so 20, not to mention the damage taken from the shooting Strelets.
A popular belief among the community I’ve recently came across is that your units in the trample mode harm other troops of yours when in range of splash. It’s a myth, that doesn’t happen, the only unit taking extra damage is itself the unit attacking, no friendly-fire allowed!
Trivia time: units do not die because of the use of trample mode — they need to be killed by other troops. If a horseman has 1 HP and attacks in the trample mode, the health bar will remain unchanged.
As you can tell by the Hussar's healt bar, it has only 1 HP!
At this stage of this a-bit-too-long write-up, we’re all perfectly familiarised with the way the trample mode works. Even average players now can easily spot major disadvantages of this formation, some of which I’d like to point out here, too.
The most obvious drawback and simultaneously the most important one is the reduction of speed. 6.5+ movement speed is one of the biggest cavalry’s advantage, as it is very flexible, versatile, can be used to raid, is able to effortlessly come back to defend one’s base and at the same time has no problems whatsoever to reinforce the main push on the opponent quickly, not to mention the snaring effect. Moreover, in the heat of the battle, cavalry units can quickly flank enemy’s weak lines and cause havoc in them. But wait, you surely wonder at this very moment and say: „pecelot, you fool! You can easily micro your cavalry so that it switches to the trample mode only when it reaches opponent’s troops!”. You’re right, although it’s very micro intensive. You really should spend your APM on something else, plus your opponent may use their actions per minute to spread his army, so that your splash damage is ineffective. And even if they don’t commit to microing so hard, are your efforts really worth it?
Another powerful hand cavalry characteristic, apart from the aforementioned goodspeed, is their high HP count. Heavy cavalry is supposed to tank while dealing good damage — with trample mode, unfortunately, it becomes rather impossible, as you harm yourself additionally. In my humble opinion, taking extra damage while doing more of reduced attack isn’t the way to go. Let’s move back to the Hussar vs 3 Strelets example. With each hit the Hussar deals 40 damage while taking 32 (20 from himself + 4 from each Strelet) — without the trample mode, his attack would equal to 30, while Strelets would be dealing only 12. Basically, when in trample mode in such a case, one exchanges 30 attack to 40 (33,(3)% increase) for 12 damage taken to 32 (166,(6)% increase). Players’ main goal is to keep their cavalry alive, as it is dangerous in combat — don’t suicide them then in such a manner!
One should not ingnore yet another factor — the damage spread. It’s more effective to pick the Strelets one-by-one than harming each one a bit for longer, as the sooner you get rid of one, the less overall damage you take. It’s like microing your cavalry in Hussars or Uhlans war, you know the drill.
But hey, isn’t it denying my previous statement that the trample mode is somewhat viable? It certainly is, I wanted to fully familiarise you with the formation, which generally isn’t considered bad for no reason, so that you can now think of situations, in which it may occur advantageous to give it a go. There’s undeniably one, on which initially I wanted to focus: fighting against low-HP Minutemen.
The thing with enemy Minutemen is that you want to get rid of them as soon as possible. If your opponent calls them, you usually back off for a bit, wait until their HP counts deteriorate, and then come back, as they are not as strong as they were before. But usually it’s not easy to pick them off, as your opponent can kite, run away from your main army etc. One trick I’d like to strongly recommend is to send one cavalry unit of yours if available, ride it at full speed to low-HP MM, quickly switch to the trample mode and attack the middle one. If alone, not grouped with other types of units, they are always positioned horizontally, in one line — therefore, if you attack the one surrounded by his fellow companions, you kill 5 of them with just one hit, quickly preventing them from shooting at you. You of course take extra damage, but since your own damage output equals to 5 (remember: they are 1-HP Minutemen), you’re only denied 2 or 3 HP, instead of another twenties from shooting MM. It’s not such a big deal in terms of micro either, you just have to commit 1 or 2 more seconds to properly switch between the normal melee mode and the trample mode (and vice-versa).
Obviously, Minutemen aren’t the only ones it becomes viable against. If you spot low-HP units of any kind, primarily ranged infantry (sometimes wrongly associated with light infantry), like Skirmishers, go for it! Quickly switch to the trample mode to deal with them in the blink of an eye!
Additionally, one should not forget about an aforementioned certain fact, which is a bit trivial-looking at first: units do not die because of the usage of the trample mode — if you happen to find yourself in a situation, in which you’re left with a low-HP hand cavalry unit, put in in the trample mode to enlarge the attack output, as the damage taken by the unit itself becomes irrelevant, since it’ll be killed most probably by a single volley of shots.
So there you go, I hope you learned something today. The first part of this post is rather trivial, as the trample mode doesn’t see much usage in any game type, what I want to remember more, though, is the tip about quickly dealing with low-HP Minutemen by using only one horse rider, which may become quite handy in a not-so-small number of games!
And of course, please „like” the post if you find it useful and helpful to let me know about the quality of my content. Feel free to share your thoughts, feelings, dreams and emotions about the logic of the trample mode!
good post but john oliver is a lib cuck who wanted britain to stay in the eu and he thinks hes so funny and smart and people care about his cool show so much
- P i k i l i c
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
@Ucanwinnewcivsanmaps
try not to quote the whole post pleaseUcanwinnewcivsanmaps wrote:notification
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
@Ucanwinnewcivsanmaps
, yeah, certainly, I strongly disagree with him most of the time, although to be fair, he is often really hilarious and I just enjoy watching the show XDUcanwinnewcivsanmaps wrote:notification
- Ucanwinnewcivsanmaps
- Skirmisher
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
pecelot wrote:I’m back with another tip, this time let’s have a brief look on trample mode usage.
TRAMPLE MODE
Presumably, everyone once encountered a statement that a trample mode is really bad. I imagine the route of changes in looking at this particular issue pretty much goes in that way for the vast majority of Age of Empires 3 players: first off, you don’t use this feature as you’re not aware of its existence; later on, you discover in the settings section that „Advanced formations” are a thing, and probably think: „Wow, it’s so great! I can deal additional splash damage! And my units look cool, too!”. After that, you’re probably told by some „AoE3 multiplayer pro” that you’re such a noob, that trample mode is terrible, and you know nothing about the game… Eventually, you humbly clear your mind, forgetting completely about this possibility of charging.
In conclusion, an average acknowledged reader of this tip has in mind that it is indeed awful. As our most favourite and beloved weekly host John Oliver would express his doubts: but is it, though?! I’m here today, unfortunately not on HBO (yet?), to prove you wrong!
First of all, let’s all familiarise with the trample mode itself. How does it even affect units, you ask? Well, it looks pretty simple at the first glance, but frankly, I have to admit that even I was somewhat surprised by some of the features, which are sometimes complicated. Here they are, listed below:
- trample mode is available only for hand cavalry with „hand cavalry” and „heavy cavalry” tags, exception: Flail Elephant (primary tag: „siege unit”);
- in trample mode units’ attack is significantly decreased, although sheer numbers differ a lot, mostly depending on ancestries:
-- European cavalry – Hussars, Uhlans, Cossacks, Oprichniks, Cuirassiers, Lancers, Spahi – receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- European mercenary cavalry – Elmetis, Mamelukes, Hackapells, Stradiots – also receives a —1/3 penalty,
-- Native cavalry — Axe Riders, Lakota Axe Riders, Dog Soldiers, Tashunke Prowlers, Cheyenne Riders – receives a —1/2 penalty, with the exception of Kanya Horsemen, who get 23 attack instead of 27, so —4 penalty, which is about 1/7 of 27,
-- Asian cavalry: Naginata Riders — —1/4 penalty, Sowars — 11 attack instead of 20, which is about —0.45% decrease, Mahout Lancers and Indian monks — no changes whatsoever, Jat Lancers – about —15% penalty, Meteor Hammers — —1/3 penalty, Iron Flails — —10% penalty, Steppe Riders — —1/2 penalty, Sufi War Elephants — no changes; all Daimyos — —1/3 penalty, Shogun Tokugawa — —1/4 penalty, Regent — +1/2 :O,
As you can see, it makes little sense and is rather illogical. I’m not sure what the developers’ intentions behind these numbers were, as most of the times they seem pretty random;
- in trample mode the speed of units is divided by two;
- in trample mode units gain 3 splash area to their base attack, with a few exceptions regarding cavalry already having splash damage, like Cuirassiers, whose attack area remains unchanged (2), Tashunke Prowlers, who gain additional 2 area (4 overall), Mahout Lancers and Indian monks, whom the trample mode doesn’t affect at all (they still have 2 splash), and Iron Flail: 1 base + 1 additional = 2 area.
Honestly, I didn’t think it would take so much effort to describe it! Now that we have it revised, though, we can take a moment to learn about the trample damage.
As the description of this particular formation puts it: „Units do extra trample damage while taking extra damage in the process”. It doesn’t sound clear, does it? Any numbers, percentages, fractions?! Ok, ok! The rule is simple, although I imagine unexpected a bit: the unit dealing trample damage takes half the dealt damage to other units. To put that in perspective: if a Hussar with 20 base damage + 3 splash area attacks 3 Strelets (focusing on the middle one), who take – let’s say – 10+20+10 damage, the Hussar then takes half the damage put on Strelets (so to speak), so 20, not to mention the damage taken from the shooting Strelets.
A popular belief among the community I’ve recently came across is that your units in the trample mode harm other troops of yours when in range of splash. It’s a myth, that doesn’t happen, the only unit taking extra damage is itself the unit attacking, no friendly-fire allowed!
Trivia time: units do not die because of the use of trample mode — they need to be killed by other troops. If a horseman has 1 HP and attacks in the trample mode, the health bar will remain unchanged.
As you can tell by the Hussar's healt bar, it has only 1 HP!
At this stage of this a-bit-too-long write-up, we’re all perfectly familiarised with the way the trample mode works. Even average players now can easily spot major disadvantages of this formation, some of which I’d like to point out here, too.
The most obvious drawback and simultaneously the most important one is the reduction of speed. 6.5+ movement speed is one of the biggest cavalry’s advantage, as it is very flexible, versatile, can be used to raid, is able to effortlessly come back to defend one’s base and at the same time has no problems whatsoever to reinforce the main push on the opponent quickly, not to mention the snaring effect. Moreover, in the heat of the battle, cavalry units can quickly flank enemy’s weak lines and cause havoc in them. But wait, you surely wonder at this very moment and say: „pecelot, you fool! You can easily micro your cavalry so that it switches to the trample mode only when it reaches opponent’s troops!”. You’re right, although it’s very micro intensive. You really should spend your APM on something else, plus your opponent may use their actions per minute to spread his army, so that your splash damage is ineffective. And even if they don’t commit to microing so hard, are your efforts really worth it?
Another powerful hand cavalry characteristic, apart from the aforementioned goodspeed, is their high HP count. Heavy cavalry is supposed to tank while dealing good damage — with trample mode, unfortunately, it becomes rather impossible, as you harm yourself additionally. In my humble opinion, taking extra damage while doing more of reduced attack isn’t the way to go. Let’s move back to the Hussar vs 3 Strelets example. With each hit the Hussar deals 40 damage while taking 32 (20 from himself + 4 from each Strelet) — without the trample mode, his attack would equal to 30, while Strelets would be dealing only 12. Basically, when in trample mode in such a case, one exchanges 30 attack to 40 (33,(3)% increase) for 12 damage taken to 32 (166,(6)% increase). Players’ main goal is to keep their cavalry alive, as it is dangerous in combat — don’t suicide them then in such a manner!
One should not ingnore yet another factor — the damage spread. It’s more effective to pick the Strelets one-by-one than harming each one a bit for longer, as the sooner you get rid of one, the less overall damage you take. It’s like microing your cavalry in Hussars or Uhlans war, you know the drill.
But hey, isn’t it denying my previous statement that the trample mode is somewhat viable? It certainly is, I wanted to fully familiarise you with the formation, which generally isn’t considered bad for no reason, so that you can now think of situations, in which it may occur advantageous to give it a go. There’s undeniably one, on which initially I wanted to focus: fighting against low-HP Minutemen.
The thing with enemy Minutemen is that you want to get rid of them as soon as possible. If your opponent calls them, you usually back off for a bit, wait until their HP counts deteriorate, and then come back, as they are not as strong as they were before. But usually it’s not easy to pick them off, as your opponent can kite, run away from your main army etc. One trick I’d like to strongly recommend is to send one cavalry unit of yours if available, ride it at full speed to low-HP MM, quickly switch to the trample mode and attack the middle one. If alone, not grouped with other types of units, they are always positioned horizontally, in one line — therefore, if you attack the one surrounded by his fellow companions, you kill 5 of them with just one hit, quickly preventing them from shooting at you. You of course take extra damage, but since your own damage output equals to 5 (remember: they are 1-HP Minutemen), you’re only denied 2 or 3 HP, instead of another twenties from shooting MM. It’s not such a big deal in terms of micro either, you just have to commit 1 or 2 more seconds to properly switch between the normal melee mode and the trample mode (and vice-versa).
Obviously, Minutemen aren’t the only ones it becomes viable against. If you spot low-HP units of any kind, primarily ranged infantry (sometimes wrongly associated with light infantry), like Skirmishers, go for it! Quickly switch to the trample mode to deal with them in the blink of an eye!
Additionally, one should not forget about an aforementioned certain fact, which is a bit trivial-looking at first: units do not die because of the usage of the trample mode — if you happen to find yourself in a situation, in which you’re left with a low-HP hand cavalry unit, put in in the trample mode to enlarge the attack output, as the damage taken by the unit itself becomes irrelevant, since it’ll be killed most probably by a single volley of shots.
So there you go, I hope you learned something today. The first part of this post is rather trivial, as the trample mode doesn’t see much usage in any game type, what I want to remember more, though, is the tip about quickly dealing with low-HP Minutemen by using only one horse rider, which may become quite handy in a not-so-small number of games!
And of course, please „like” the post if you find it useful and helpful to let me know about the quality of my content. Feel free to share your thoughts, feelings, dreams and emotions about the logic of the trample mode!
WHAT P i k i l i c?
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Ucanwinnewcivsanmaps wrote:
WHAT P i k i l i c?
Savage as fuck!
- Mr_Bramboy
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
The last time someone tried to use trample mode to kill my minutemen I killed 3 huss by kiting. I would not recommend at all. Trample mode should never be used.
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
and for killing vills?
Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
You'd demage 3-4 vills, wouldn't kill them, would get kited and lose all units for maybe one vill.
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Re: Tip of the Day — trample mode
Tbh except against low hp mm you shouldn't ever use trample mode. The animation is awful, it's super slow. Any skirm/musk will be faster than your cav and able to kite it, and someone with good micro will split his units. So basically when you want to go trample mode you first have to click on trample mode (we all know it takes a bit of time to change the stance of a unit), then hope you are close enough to attack because otherwise you will get kited super hard, then watch the terrible animation, then watch a bad attack and your hp going lower. It's just very very slow and there's no way it is efficient against anything except those mm. Could work vs other super low hp units but realistically you never meet a group of units with <20 hp like that. And even then you don't have a lot to gain (just a few less shots from those units) while you can lose a lot, since it's pretty risky to put your cav in super slow mode like this, if you fail/the guy microes decently he will get much more free shots than what you can gain.
But apart from that, the OP explains well the effects of that stance.
But apart from that, the OP explains well the effects of that stance.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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