Russia vs Aztec?

[Garja]

strelets are most cost effective vs other RI units

[Jaeger]

"But what my calculation does is that it confirms strelets are more cost-effective, which means that if the enemy is massing mace, you can mass strelet and win, you don''t need to mass cossack"
Possibly 33 strls beat 20 mace, my point is that your calculation doesn''t prove it neither confirms anything

If 33 strelets cost as much as 20 mace and 33 strelets win, how is that not proof that strelets are more cost effective in a mace vs strelet ranged infantry war?

[benj89]

lol you do this on purpose right?
If anything, it was proven experimentally, by garja (who sadly tried to do this with a scena, and who is still convinced that strls>mace but w/e)
Your calculation was onsed based on the cost, re-read your post --> and the cost only doesn't confirms anything.
Your cost calculation (which was, I repeat only based on the cost) + the experiment of garja could be part of the truth, but since garja cannot precisely stimulate it with a scena, it isn't.
It's like an approximation in mathematic, it tends to be toward the truth, but it doesn't reach it

[Garja]

Strelets are better for cost than maces, they're better for cost than any RI.
Ofc with micro other units gain value because they get free hits. But in the long run you can't always micro vs strelets and that's why they're so good. That and 35% ups + AA techs.

[benj89]

they are less good for cost than maces you don't consider AA techs and %ups.
-->' without those, mace>'strls in a straight fight if you want to take every factor possible into account.
the only way strelets >' mace (still if you don't consider card up) is vs HI, but not in pure LI fight. (well, this is considering a "perfect" micro on both sides, and no wasted shots, which won't happen much early anyway)
vs cav mace>'strls, and LI fight mace>'strls.
I considered 2007 stats, did it changed since then? I cannot have access to the game atm.
This doesn't change the fact that you can't compare units based on their cost and some experimental test anyway, it won't give you a serious result, just an approximation. and when it's about mace vs strls which are very close, you cannot based comparison on approximation

[deleted_user0]

I haven't really played much versus good aztec players (are there even anyone else but garja who plays aztecs activetely??)
Versus Prince's aztecs I have played many even games and the civs seem pretty even. In low hunts maps aztecs are slightly better cause they are faster and can hut forward. Also water is stronger. In late game I would prefer russia cause strelets are OP with strelet combat+AA and its very food based unit. Aztec has big buttons though.

Garja should play more vs my/veni/ramex/lain_world Russia and maybe we would learn more. BS_op and H2o are too much ahead with general skills.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I haven''t really played much versus good aztec players (are there even anyone else but garja who plays aztecs activetely??)
Versus Prince''s aztecs I have played many even games and the civs seem pretty even. In low hunts maps aztecs are slightly better cause they are faster and can hut forward. Also water is stronger. In late game I would prefer russia cause strelets are OP with strelet combat+AA and its very food based unit. Aztec has big buttons though.

Garja should play more vs my/veni/ramex/lain_world Russia and maybe we would learn more. BS_op and H2o are too much ahead with general skills.

I don''t play these civs but I guess aztec should win it.

[Garja]

It's not just the test (which btw is the most reliable thing u can have for straight up fights) but in general strelets are just more cost effective

For the record, never had problems vs Russia. Aztecs are better tho Russia is kinda 2nd tier civ so they're kinda close overall.

[benj89]

haha they aren't (the only way they are is if you consider than you basically make LI to counter HI which make sense, this way yes they are, but vs LI and cav they aren't, so in general, no they aren't ).
but garja is always right!!

[princeofkabul]

Indeed me and somppu have played russia-azz mu and somppu learn to play it quite correct. Making defensive town and mass cossack. Before this he used to do 10m. Musk 5 coss/ or 10 musk 13 stre and tried to straight up fight vs my units early on. This was a disaster and im convinced russia should not ever play the mu Like that. Tho the defensive style requires decent hunts which doesn't always happend in RE maps.

[Jaeger]

I haven''t really played much versus good aztec players (are there even anyone else but garja who plays aztecs activetely??)
Versus Prince''s aztecs I have played many even games and the civs seem pretty even. In low hunts maps aztecs are slightly better cause they are faster and can hut forward. Also water is stronger. In late game I would prefer russia cause strelets are OP with strelet combat+AA and its very food based unit. Aztec has big buttons though.

Garja should play more vs my/veni/ramex/lain_world Russia and maybe we would learn more. BS_op and H2o are too much ahead with general skills.

You started cossack vs aztec? I tried this MU a few times and I had most success when I started strelets, and did 700f 5 coss.

[deleted_user0]

I havent really played much versus good aztec players (are there even anyone else but garja who plays aztecs activetely??)
Versus Princes aztecs I have played many even games and the civs seem pretty even. In low hunts maps aztecs are slightly better cause they are faster and can hut forward. Also water is stronger. In late game I would prefer russia cause strelets are OP with strelet combat+AA and its very food based unit. Aztec has big buttons though.

Garja should play more vs my/veni/ramex/lain_world Russia and maybe we would learn more. BS_op and H2o are too much ahead with general skills.

You started cossack vs aztec? I tried this MU a few times and I had most success when I started strelets, and did 700f 5 coss.

If aztec is playing aggressive, start 10 strelet+ship 5 cossack. If not, start 700w-700g and mix mostly strelet-cossack army. Some musk can be also useful.

[Jaeger]

You started cossack vs aztec? I tried this MU a few times and I had most success when I started strelets, and did 700f 5 coss.

If aztec is playing aggressive, start 10 strelet+ship 5 cossack. If not, start 700w-700g and mix mostly strelet-cossack army. Some musk can be also useful.

How do you know if aztec is playing agressive tho, they forward wh no matter what and you have to decide between 5 coss/700w before you see if they ship vills/mace/WP after their 700w. Because of this risk I was doing 700f first, its kindda in between.

Also do you have any tips for russia macro, somtimes the wood just gets out of control

[fei123456]

Bottom line of that post,?


"My calculation is useful because it helps you get a feel of if/when you should engage the aztec in a ranged infantry war."

This means that if you estimate you have more than about 1.6 times more strelets than he has mace, you should definitely engage in ranged war.
What did you think of the other stuff I wrote?

its not THAT useful, because mace have attackdance behind them, which you dont know how many vils wll be activated on it, and mace have more range.?

i think in that mu what u want to do is more like get 2 upgrades on cossacks and spam from 2 stables hile you have like 30 strelets to clean up all pikes. dont even bother with more than 10 musk

not like that......mass coyotes with combat card (or even war dance) can beat cossacks with boyar. so some musks are still a must.