China builds

[fei123456]

why you think chinese age3 cav not strong? they can beat cuirass sometimes lol. and changdao is harberd with 5 spped. china costs less resources than german.

[fei123456]

data cheats. iron flail sucks. so does meteor hammer. but they are extremely strong when combined.

[deleted_user0]

Cossacks are one of the best cavarly in the game, because of pop and stats. Muche better than hussar for sure. Ulhans are also better than hussar per cost. Actually pretty much every cavarly in this game is better than hussar per cost.

Dont you think vet huss is better than lancer? I mean, lancer cant raid, lancer cant catch raids, and the only major benefit lancers have is that they do ok vs heavy infantry unlike hussars, but a lot of civs go fortress vs spain and not many make heavy infantry in fortress. Also, sure they do more damage vs skirms but if youre able to engage with cav it means goons are dead so either way huss or lancer you will do insane damage with your army shooting in the back too if goons are dead.

Nope doesnt mean that at all. Lancer are better in many circumstances, they have 30 rr which makes them better at engaging the common skir goon combo. They dish out alot more damage than the hussar meaning that typically, when the goons move back cuz of the mass rods, the lancers have a window to destroy skirs qhich they will be able to do within that small timeframe while huss cant. Lancers are automatically veteran, while spain often lacks wood so spending 200w 200c on veteran upgrade is something they cant afford when if matters, they rather want to get vet rods instead.

Also vs rushes lancer is obviously better because it can deal to some extent with heavy inf and mobs up light inf. To defend raids, spain can either make 5 goon or leave some rod/pike near vils

The best combo vs spain is actually musk cannon or musk skir heavy cav instead of skir goon or skir cannon.

[iNcog]

steppes and keshiks are really bad cav units

i would rate hussar as an OK unit, not mediocre but OK. it's a good unit for opening cav because it's kind of beefy

it's kind of like the musketeer, tbh. musks are good opening units but in fortress they become "mediocre". i'm talking vanilla musks for a civ like france or something, not consulate musks or ashigaru

[Garja]

Cossacks are one of the best cavarly in the game, because of pop and stats. Muche better than hussar for sure. Ulhans are also better than hussar per cost. Actually pretty much every cavarly in this game is better than hussar per cost.

Dont you think vet huss is better than lancer? I mean, lancer cant raid, lancer cant catch raids, and the only major benefit lancers have is that they do ok vs heavy infantry unlike hussars, but a lot of civs go fortress vs spain and not many make heavy infantry in fortress. Also, sure they do more damage vs skirms but if youre able to engage with cav it means goons are dead so either way huss or lancer you will do insane damage with your army shooting in the back too if goons are dead.

I rarely go for vet huss. When it is the case is against army that are cav heavy like german one. In general lancers do better their job of killing infantry. Also rods lancer is a real combo, rods/huss not so much.

[Papist]

Dont you think vet huss is better than lancer? I mean, lancer cant raid, lancer cant catch raids, and the only major benefit lancers have is that they do ok vs heavy infantry unlike hussars, but a lot of civs go fortress vs spain and not many make heavy infantry in fortress. Also, sure they do more damage vs skirms but if youre able to engage with cav it means goons are dead so either way huss or lancer you will do insane damage with your army shooting in the back too if goons are dead.

I rarely go for vet huss. When it is the case is against army that are cav heavy like german one. In general lancers do better their job of killing infantry. Also rods lancer is a real combo, rods/huss not so much.

Rod/huss is probably decent vs Sioux or German if you move in quickly.

[Garja]

sioux? lolz

[Jaeger]

sioux? lolz

I think rod huss in age 2 can rape germany if they don''t have 5 dopps in deck, if they do you can mix in 10 bows or 10 musk, I think 700w 5v 700g 600w for bows, otherwise 6 rods instead of 600w. Not sure how well this works I tried a couple times but my execution was shit.

The only problem with doing age 2 vs civs like germany is that I think they will just rush you and win.

[zoom]

data cheats. iron flail sucks. so does meteor hammer. but they are extremely strong when combined.

No, they''re rather weak when combined because Iron Flails are shitty-shitty-shit-shit while Meteor Hammers are acceptable (despite poor stats due to ranged attack).

[iNcog]

i think they actually do melee damage btw

just melee damage with a range

[fei123456]

data cheats. iron flail sucks. so does meteor hammer. but they are extremely strong when combined.

No, theyre rather weak when combined because Iron Flails are shitty-shitty-shit-shit while Meteor Hammers are acceptable (despite poor stats due to ranged attack).

meteor hammer deal melee damage with 5 range and they kill falconet with only 3 hits. (hussar 7) in some cases chinese cav can even beat cuirass due to pathing.

[_venox_]

We need to take the role of an unit into consideration: Hussars are tankier and do less damage compared to other cavalry units, so in colonial when they tank ranged shots they are quite strong, but in fortress where you either need fast cavalry or hard counters to skirmishers or artillery then hussars are off worse. But in my opinion it doesn't matter if a cavalry unit is worse or better, it still has it's purpose as a cavalry unit. Only when other unit types are better at the job than the hussar (e.g. a goon in melee for demonstrations sake) or there are better alternatives (huss vs lancer) then it's worth it to compare them. In the end it's about how much you get out of your resources.

[zoom]

i think they actually do melee damage btw

just melee damage with a range

I think so too' my wording is just poor. Thanks for notifying me.

[zoom]

No, theyre rather weak when combined because Iron Flails are shitty-shitty-shit-shit while Meteor Hammers are acceptable (despite poor stats due to ranged attack).

meteor hammer deal melee damage with 5 range and they kill falconet with only 3 hits. (hussar 7) in some cases chinese cav can even beat cuirass due to pathing.

That they do, and thank fuck for it because you dont even want to know how bad theyd be if they didnt!

I suppose if your 10 Cuirassiers are trapped in a huge choke and only one can advance at any given moment in time while the Chinese player has seven Iron Flails lined up on the other end with seven Meteor Hammers somehow reaching the frontal Cuirassier then maybe Chinese cavalry would stand a chance... in any other scenario: No, no, and no. Hussars decisively defeat Forbidden Army cavalry' Cuirassiers crush it so hard it makes you stop laughing at how bad Iron Flails are.

[_venox_]

troll is basic

[zoom]

We need to take the role of an unit into consideration: Hussars are tankier and do less damage compared to other cavalry units, so in colonial when they tank ranged shots they are quite strong, but in fortress where you either need fast cavalry or hard counters to skirmishers or artillery then hussars are off worse. But in my opinion it doesn''t matter if a cavalry unit is worse or better, it still has it''s purpose as a cavalry unit. Only when other unit types are better at the job than the hussar (e.g. a goon in melee for demonstrations sake) or there are better alternatives (huss vs lancer) then it''s worth it to compare them. In the end it''s about how much you get out of your resources.

As has been claimed, supported and repeated several times ITT by myself already (please refer to E.G http://eso-community.net/post/15592 ): Neither the Iron Flail nor the Meteor Hammer is tankier than a Hussar per cost, nor is the Iron Flail better against ranged infantry per cost' only slower. What''s more, Hussars aren''t worse off simply because they aren''t as hard a counter as certain other cavalry units. Their superior strength against other units doesn''t suddenly diminish simply because there are better RI and LC available.

I agree entirely with your latter point, although I''m not at all discussing whether the Chinese are inherently underpowered because of their weaker cavalry' I''m merely discussing whether their cavalry is weak.

[zoom]

troll is basic

If this is supposedly in reply to one of my posts, I have no idea what you are talking about, because I haven''t even attempted to troll anyone at all ITT...

[Garja]

We need to take the role of an unit into consideration: Hussars are tankier and do less damage compared to other cavalry units, so in colonial when they tank ranged shots they are quite strong, but in fortress where you either need fast cavalry or hard counters to skirmishers or artillery then hussars are off worse. But in my opinion it doesnt matter if a cavalry unit is worse or better, it still has its purpose as a cavalry unit. Only when other unit types are better at the job than the hussar (e.g. a goon in melee for demonstrations sake) or there are better alternatives (huss vs lancer) then its worth it to compare them. In the end its about how much you get out of your resources.

As has been claimed, supported and repeated several times ITT by myself already (please refer to E.G http://eso-community.net/post/15592): Neither the Iron Flail nor the Meteor Hammer is tankier than a Hussar per cost, nor is the Iron Flail better against ranged infantry per cost' only slower. Whats more, Hussars arent worse off simply because they arent as hard a counter as certain other cavalry units. Their superior strength against other units doesnt suddenly diminish simply because there are better RI and LC available.

I agree entirely with your latter point, although Im not at all discussing whether the Chinese are inherently underpowered because of their weaker cavalry' Im merely discussing whether their cavalry is weak.

They are tankier than huss, especially after the rr card upgrade. You do realize that with 41% they just dont die to ranged units?

[zoom]

Explain to me how they are tankier than Hussars, because I've already plenifully explained how the exact opposite is true. Further tell me whether you are taking into account an additional 30% combat boost for Hussars when you're throwing in home-city shipments for the side you are arguing against (MIND = BLOWN).

[deleted_user0]

Well they resist 2x more dmg than a hussar. Vs a 20 ranged attk a hussar will take only 16 dmg, the chinese cav only 12.

But to determine if thry actually tank more gotta see how many shots it takes a veteran skir to kill both before and after ups, and same for goons

[zoom]

Well they resist 2x more dmg than a hussar. Vs a 20 ranged attk a hussar will take only 16 dmg, the chinese cav only 12.

But to determine if thry actually tank more gotta see how many shots it takes a veteran skir to kill both before and after ups, and same for goons

Firstly, they resist 1.5 times as much as (not more than' that would be 0.5 times) a Hussar.

Secondly, no you don''t. Please refer to: http://eso-community.net/post/15592

[_venox_]

One has more damage and the other more hitpoints, hp later on is worth less because the range of units in general is higher in fortress and comparing units that don't even cost the same is just troll to me

[zoom]

One has more damage and the other more hitpoints, hp later on is worth less because the range of units in general is higher in fortress and comparing units that don''t even cost the same is just troll to me

Please refer to: http://eso-community.net/post/15592

[_venox_]

the statistics of that post aren't even true and if you say that being available 1 age earlier you also have to take into account that you have to upgrade the hussars first. Also the 1 age doesn't matter since china will always ff...

[zoom]

I'd genuinely love to know what statistics aren't true. Furthermore, I do. Lastly, whether a civilization tends to FF or not is irrelevant to the comparison of three particular units' one is still available one age earlier than the others.