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Italy Garja
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27 Nov 2016, 17:57

Introduction
This build works well on EP where the meta is more boomy, rush is a bit less effective and starting resources are all safely placed around the TC.
The idea is to get a decent eco while still matching most common timings (using the generic euro civ as benchmark). Adaptations are needed to deal with problematic strats against some civs (e.g. Spain, French, etc.).
India already used to do fine vs colo civs (Brits, Jap, Aztecs, Russia) with the agra builds (rush or boomy) so this strat is not really necessary in those cases (actually can be quite bad vs Aztecs or Russia for example).

The main build order
The essential cards are the usual ones with India:
- 1st wood trickle
- 600 wood
- 300 export

2nd wood trickle is a possible variation instead of 300 export (otherwise it is a good 3rd card in colonial).

Age1
Age1 is common usual india stuff. I usually balance my macro watching the vills in queue. When I'm at about 500-600f (usually that coincides with the arrival of first card) and I have atleast 2v in queue I switch all vills to food. 3rd vill in queue is a safer approach. Probably the sweet spot is 500f 3v in queue, but I'm not sure. It comes natural with time anyway.

Dropping the wonder
Drop the karni wonder with 1 vill where it covers most of starting resources (pay attention to 2nd mine). Quickly add other 3 vills and switch food vills to wood (mind vill pathing if you can). [u]The goal is to age between 4.10 and 4.40. 4v is the standard for that. Can be 3v with very good start (dropping wonder at 2.45 or so) or even 5v with gold start and dropping the wonder at 3.20-3.30 (you will have 1 extra vill out anyway). Again these timings are based on euro civ benchmarks. If you have a read on the opponent you can add or remove vills.

Transition to colo
Keep constant vill production and drop a market (TP is another possibility but then the market has to be skipped, unless you want a super greedy build in which case you might just do the old agra build).
Research 1st food and gold up. Yes, no all-resources-up first. It's too slow and you're about to move most of your wood vills anyway.
By the time you research them both you should be in colo.
Another possibility is just to skip market and either build houses (you're going to rush hard in this case) or build a consulate (cons rush) or drop a TP (again works well with rush).

Shift-task 1 of the 4 vills building the wonder to gold (other 3 will autogather the crates, mind crate spawn if you remember).

Colonial
Here come the variations of the build:
1) drop a military building and start producing units asap
2) drop a military building and keep researching market techs
3) just research all market techs

1)
I usually do this when I plan to make something happens with units or I'm getting pressured. If you do this then move all wood vills but 6 in transition to food after first 2 market techs. TC rally point goes to gold and the 3 vills gathering crates will also go to gold.
I normally make a stable and with this macro I end up selling 100f for gold (actually first time it's not bad) so that I can complete the sowar batch. With good start you don't need to use the market. Mind making a house (you're at 19/20). 600w is used for consulate, another house or two and a rax (2x stable instead is interesting sometimes). 2nd batch of units can either be sowar, zambs or infantry from rax. Use 1 vill for consulate if you drop it before sending 300 export, otherwise w/e number of vills it takes to have it finished when 300export arrives.
Select French cons and send 500w 500g (don't forget to get 500g asap). Queue up the end of relationship together with 500g. You really don't need 4v from otto cons with this strat since they repay too slowly (and you have useless bonus compared to 5% more gathering). Also I don't want to wait for 3 huss since I prefer brit cons asap. Use 500w for 2nd rax and houses (also as buffer for vill production so that you can temporarily remove vills from wood if necessary).
Next card is 2nd wood trickle. With this you really don't need many vills on wood. Usually it is 6 for me (they substain vill production, while trickles take care of houses).
Next card for me is usually 700f. Yes I know it sounds shitty but works great together with 500g from cons. The point is if you can spam a bit more you also get exp faster for next card. 4 sowar or camel attack used to be the more standard options, and they're still viable.
At some point you want to push. I usually try to use first batches of cav (that's the whole point of dropping stable asap). Don't push too early tho. India production starts kicking in from 8 min or so with this build (kinda like Brits) and from there is steady production from 2-3 military buildings per cycle.
As you spare wood you complete the market techs (which by that point start to be worth it given the relevant vill count).

2)
Second build is same as previous one except you're more lax on unit production and squeeze market techs in between batches. Imperial burocracy can still be skipped for a while since you have 10%+5% boost from the wonder and the consulate anyway.
This option makes sense when you expect units from the opponent but you're not in any hurry to push (vs Brits for example). In this case 700f card is clearly not very good and 4v from otto cons might be a better option (since you have the market techs already). 700f still good when you're doing a 10 min timing or so with sepoy, gurka and sowar vs a semi FF civ like French that will have the 2 falcs out at that point. You really don't need camel attack yet vs that while max unit pop is the goal.

3)
Third option is good vs civs that are not going to pressure you anytime soon (e.g Dutch straight FFing or China FF). Can be turned in the 2nd option if you scout something concerning.
The idea here is to get all market ups asap (I still go for the order food, gold, food, gold, all, all) while usually FFing gathering all the 1200f 1000g resources from hunts and mines (and only adapting if necessary). Consulate still goes to French to match the timings (very tight in this case).
600w is used for cons, 2 houses, and vills (you barely need any vill on wood after imperial burocracy). 500w from French cons is used for rax+stable and a vill (again no vills on wood if everything is done correctly). 500g arrives when you're in transition already and will be used for units and vet ups.
Drop the wonder with 6 vills from gold and move a number of food vills to wood to keep vill production. Age up with tower of victory and use the 800w for another rax and unit ups.
Your eco is stellar and you have everything set up to spam skirm and camels non stop.
You should reach fortress around 8.40 while making units in transition.
Fortress cards can be anything from 8 skirms, 9 zambs, 1000w, and gurka/sepoy/sowar combat card. I don't like urumi card but it is an option.
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India Ashvin
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27 Nov 2016, 18:04

nice write up :flowers:
but why do you not prefer urumi?

EDIT:@Garja why you no answer me?
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France Diarouga
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27 Nov 2016, 18:15

Good build but TP in transition is better than market, even more when you want to semi ff.
Greece tedere12
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27 Nov 2016, 18:40

finally an india guide. I cant believe it tho, diarouga approves :P
#FreeTheCheese
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India rsy
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27 Nov 2016, 21:41

tedere12 wrote:finally an india guide. I cant believe it tho, diarouga approves :P

Maybe they finally dropped the hatchet. I really really hope they did
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India Ashvin
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27 Nov 2016, 21:46

rsy wrote:
tedere12 wrote:finally an india guide. I cant believe it tho, diarouga approves :P

Maybe they finally dropped the hatchet. I really really hope they did


Nope. I don't see it happening anytime even in the farthest future :roll:
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India drsingh
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27 Nov 2016, 22:04

Nice build.

A few questions.
Against which civs do u recommend 1st and 2nd variation.
In the 2nd one. Against french, did you mean 700f + 500g from french cons or 700f + 4 vill?
3rd variation - how about sending big trickle as 2nd card before 600w?
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Italy Garja
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27 Nov 2016, 22:31

drsingh wrote:Nice build.

A few questions.
Against which civs do u recommend 1st and 2nd variation.
In the 2nd one. Against french, did you mean 700f + 500g from french cons or 700f + 4 vill?
3rd variation - how about sending big trickle as 2nd card before 600w?


I tend to use this build vs semi FF civs or Brits. Vs Russia, Aztecs and Jap I use the Agra. 1st variation is very flexible. Basically you just make units like any euro civ but still have India unique bonuses for the long run.

I meant 700f+500g. Vs French I actually used to do something different starting with sepoy, then 2nd rax and adding stable only when French are already in age3 and send 2 falcs. I don't remember exactly the BO but it was probably something skipping the consulate and 300e and sending the trickel instead. The idea is basically to do a timing just after French age with mass infantry and force the 2 cannons, then with sowar push, kill the cannons and mantain map control. Your mass and eco should be actually be better if everything is done correctly.

600w is necessary to match those timings. The big trickle might work as well but you're definitely a bit slower since you need more vills on wood early on.
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Canada forgrin
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27 Nov 2016, 22:33

@Garja I tried playing out vs cpu versions 1 & 2 so far. The build is really nice! Seems to need XP tho, it went much smoother when I played on livestock maps. Got a small note on 1 & 2: If you're facing cav semi FF from france/german you can do first batch zamb and follow with sowar, and squeeze a market up during the sowar batch, at least it seems so from my test. Allows you to deflect raids better since 5 huss > 5 sowar but 5 zamb > 5 huss.
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28 Nov 2016, 06:28

if you ally with french, why don't you go GFA-300 export? you can have 500w500g500f quite fast.
It's already a war, and I have nothing to lose.
----diarouga
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China fei123456
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28 Nov 2016, 06:42

karni mata is actually 2 vills only (with market upgrades, but it's still not desirable). however, without the great defence of agra fort, india will become quite vulnerable to many age 2 pressures. i've seen many records that karni india lose to dutch fb rush, chinese fb rush lol.
karni mata boom build may be slightly better than agra if you're facing a non-pressure civ(china ff, dutch ff, port ff etc). however, dutch and port fully boom>>karni mata boom.
It's already a war, and I have nothing to lose.
----diarouga
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Germany yemshi
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28 Nov 2016, 06:53

drsingh wrote:Nice build
3rd variation - how about sending big trickle as 2nd card before 600w?


@WickedCossack
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

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Italy Garja
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28 Nov 2016, 09:34

 
Couprider wrote:if you ally with french, why don't you go GFA-300 export? you can have 500w500g500f quite fast.

Because it doesnt fit the build and it is a waste of a shipment just for 500f.
What I sometimes do is to rush with otto cons then send trickle and GFA to get vills (by that time you have exactly 180 export). Then I switch to French and get 500w soon after. You get OP follow up from quite heavy rush.
Couprider wrote:karni mata is actually 2 vills only (with market upgrades, but it's still not desirable). however, without the great defence of agra fort, india will become quite vulnerable to many age 2 pressures. i've seen many records that karni india lose to dutch fb rush, chinese fb rush lol.
karni mata boom build may be slightly better than agra if you're facing a non-pressure civ(china ff, dutch ff, port ff etc). however, dutch and port fully boom>>karni mata boom. 

You are not going to be in any trouble because you age at 4.30 and have stable + rax just like any civ. Also good unit cards and stuff from consulate.
There is no way you should lose to Dutch skirm pike if you play well. Same against China. You have one of the most comfortable RI+cav spam with india,  rushes only play in your hands.
As for booms your eco is stellar with market ups + 15% and all your age3 cards are superb. Of course you don't exactly out eco Ports with 80f or Dutch with 5 banks, but no civ really does at the moment.
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Finland princeofkabul
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28 Nov 2016, 10:34

Why did you not mention karni 10/10 I think you have played it before..?
Anyway, solid write up.
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Italy Garja
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28 Nov 2016, 10:35

Octanium wrote:nice write up :flowers:
but why do you not prefer urumi?

EDIT:@Garja why you no answer me?

They cost food and requore lot of pop.
More importantly with this build you are supposed to match the army count of the opponent rather than relying on a hero unit pop out.
Basically the sooner you get a good mass of gurka the sooner you can hold some map control to place your vills behind that. And since you will soon run out of mines that's actually quite relevant.
Early on urumi get sniped off by poking skirms and so do vills if you can't shoot back with your own units.
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Italy Garja
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28 Nov 2016, 10:52

princeofkabul wrote:Why did you not mention karni 10/10 I think you have played it before..?
Anyway, solid write up.

Ye 10/10 was the previous version of this, but apparently with 4v on wonder you still get good age up time and can squeeze in a bit more eco.
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France iNcog
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28 Nov 2016, 12:06

added to the wall <_<

i'm so slow when it comes to adding stuff to the wall and i know that i've missed a bunch of other threads too

i suck
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