Russia Matchups RE

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France Diarouga
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Diarouga »

yurashic wrote:
Diarouga wrote:Japan: easy
China: Russia favoured
India: Close but Russia loses
Aztec: On terrible maps you can win the match ups but on 90% of the maps, it's just aztec favoured
Sioux: Close, but again on TP maps it's Sioux favoured
Iro: menu=>resign
Dutch: Russia favoured, even more on no hunt maps
Spain: Very close
Otto: guess :P
France: Fre favoured ofc
Ger: ger favoured ofc
Brit: close on average RE maps
Port: Depends on the map


Agree with all, except for India and Britain.

I'd say these two civilizations are the strongest counters to Russia out of all. You just can't beat their better units with worse economy, plus Britain is faster and India has an Agra fort.

From my experience it's hard for brit, even on ESOC maps, so on no food map it's just easy.
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Diarouga »

ovi12 wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Spain: Very close


So what changed to make this unwinnable for Russia? People making more than 10 skirms instead of rods again?

I say very close because it's a controversial MU, some think it's hopeless for Russia, some think it's hopeless for spain, I'm not too sure. I can't see how it could be hopeless for spain though :P
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Jaeger »

Diarouga wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Spain: Very close


So what changed to make this unwinnable for Russia? People making more than 10 skirms instead of rods again?

I say very close because it's a controversial MU, some think it's hopeless for Russia, some think it's hopeless for spain, I'm not too sure. I can't see how it could be hopeless for spain though :P

Well from my experience (and watching streams) the only way Russia can win is if they surprise you with a lot of cossacks, which is what all Russia players try to do. And if you dont micro perfectly it works if you just rely on 20 pike. But if you make 5-10 skirms and rest rods theres no way youll lose. You can say that hell counter you then and make 0 cav and only musk. I even if you make rods i dont think youll lose, but worst case scenario you can also scout and make more skirms if needed.
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Garja »

Don't' use the first musks under Spain TC. It is useless. This honestly should be enough of a tip to win you the MU.

But if you want a more precise description of what to do is just do a timing build aimed at 8 min or so (700g 5 coss 4 coss or similar) and only use starting units to kill the TP while Spain is aging (btw wait for atleast 15 musks or MM+dogs might deny that). W/e combo Spain makes you just win with mass.
If 2 cannons and trash units just powerplay it with musks in staggered mode. Don't stagger 50 units in one group it is useless. Staggered mode only works with 25 or so units max. Flank cannons with cossacks. All they have to do really is just to divert some units so that less musks are being meleed. If they land a hit or two on cannons the better. Otherwise you can easily use your 50 musks to DPS the cannons down. Don't focus on cannons if he charges with trash units in front. 2 cannons kill 3 musks max per volley so you can easily don't give a fuck about it while your 50 musks kill 1-2 trash units per second.
After the battle just make 2 stables and keep spamming from multiple buildings while Spain runs out of shipments and produces 5 units at time. Mass cossacks with boyars beats pretty much any kind of units Spain usually makes in the first 15 min of the game. Mass goons would beat that but Spain has hard time spamming them.
If fancy lancer stuff just make more coss than usual.
If he's not going to push, you must adapt. Either try to age up or push yourself. It depends on what he's doing (FI, going eco FF, etc.).

This idea should also work well vs any semi FF. In that case you can adapt and age up. Your fortress is way better in the long term so you have nothing to fear. Namely, unlocking CA makes lancer useless.
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Jaeger »

Garja wrote:Don't' use the first musks under Spain TC. It is useless. This honestly should be enough of a tip to win you the MU.

But if you want a more precise description of what to do is just do a timing build aimed at 8 min or so (700g 5 coss 4 coss or similar) and only use starting units to kill the TP while Spain is aging (btw wait for atleast 15 musks or MM+dogs might deny that). W/e combo Spain makes you just win with mass.
If 2 cannons and trash units just powerplay it with musks in staggered mode. Don't stagger 50 units in one group it is useless. Staggered mode only works with 25 or so units max. Flank cannons with cossacks. All they have to do really is just to divert some units so that less musks are being meleed. If they land a hit or two on cannons the better. Otherwise you can easily use your 50 musks to DPS the cannons down. Don't focus on cannons if he charges with trash units in front. 2 cannons kill 3 musks max per volley so you can easily don't give a fuck about it while your 50 musks kill 1-2 trash units per second.
After the battle just make 2 stables and keep spamming from multiple buildings while Spain runs out of shipments and produces 5 units at time. Mass cossacks with boyars beats pretty much any kind of units Spain usually makes in the first 15 min of the game. Mass goons would beat that but Spain has hard time spamming them.
If fancy lancer stuff just make more coss than usual.
If he's not going to push, you must adapt. Either try to age up or push yourself. It depends on what he's doing (FI, going eco FF, etc.).

This idea should also work well vs any semi FF. In that case you can adapt and age up. Your fortress is way better in the long term so you have nothing to fear. Namely, unlocking CA makes lancer useless.

So if this won why would it win on RE? Because Spain's 15 skirms do a little more damage to cav?
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by Garja »

ovi12 wrote:So if this won why would it win on RE? Because Spain's 15 skirms do a little more damage to cav?

You mean on Nilla?
First of all it is not so simple even on nilla. Russia is easily 3rd civ on nilla, after Spain and Otto. Same build might work on shit maps on Nilla (e.g Yukon).
Secondly, Spain is significantly better on Nilla (better shipment bonus, better cards, better dogs, better treasures), decks have only 20 cards (so unit cards are more valuable) and all upgrades are worth 5% less (Russia advantage over Spain is largely due to eco and unit ups).
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by macacoalbino »

pecelot wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:They do have a slightly better eco early on. They click up with more vills and reach age 2 with slightly less vills, but with placer mines and a TP.

You make manors in transition, though! After 4 CDBs you basically lack eco shipments, whereas as Brits you have as many as 3 of those.

I guess the point is: How early is early? :hmm:
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Re: Russia Matchups RE

Post by fei123456 »

ovi12 wrote:
Diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I say very close because it's a controversial MU, some think it's hopeless for Russia, some think it's hopeless for spain, I'm not too sure. I can't see how it could be hopeless for spain though :P

Well from my experience (and watching streams) the only way Russia can win is if they surprise you with a lot of cossacks, which is what all Russia players try to do. And if you dont micro perfectly it works if you just rely on 20 pike. But if you make 5-10 skirms and rest rods theres no way youll lose. You can say that hell counter you then and make 0 cav and only musk. I even if you make rods i dont think youll lose, but worst case scenario you can also scout and make more skirms if needed.

advantages for russia:
spain can never put the tower out of his base. so if the map's big, it'll be a long journey for his cannons to arrive at your base.
as spain won't have any units before 7 mins, russia can raid with cossacks, kill tp with a few musks, and go steel trap 700w full eco at the same time.
so when spain march into you base (usually after 10:00), russia already have great eco, tons of cossack and musks. actually musks can kill cannons too.
atp may work for spain, but it's only viable on certain maps. and this will delay your age up, and if russia choose to all-in rush it'll be dangerous.

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