Russia Matchups RE

[pecelot]

No reason to go skirm/huss when you have cuirs btw

I meant in age 2

If kited correctly muskets, even ruskets, should win against dopp/uhlan.

I don't really think so, if I have to be entirely honest...

With equal investment from both sides, ruskets of course win against dop/uhlan

Here, on the other hand, I meant more something that Garja wrote about above.

KingRichardIIII a russia player on eso, he ages up with 500f ships 300w first for houses and spams musketeers while shipping cossacks and having constant vill production

Not really, from what I've seen, and I can clam I've seen quite a lot from him.
Also: http://aoe3.jpcommunity.com/rating2/pla ... ichardiiii

I have tested this build, it is possible to have constant vill production with too little bh idle time and no idle time at all early on

Sure, it can be developed, just saying what that particular player tends to do...

[farran34]

Japan: easy
China: Russia favoured
India: Close but Russia loses
Aztec: On terrible maps you can win the match ups but on 90% of the maps, it's just aztec favoured
Sioux: Close, but again on TP maps it's Sioux favoured
Iro: menu=>resign
Dutch: Russia favoured, even more on no hunt maps
Spain: Very close
Otto: guess
France: Fre favoured ofc
Ger: ger favoured ofc
Brit: close on average RE maps
Port: Depends on the map

Do you think russia vs. china is favored on a map like Mongolia with a lot of herdables, or just on normal RE maps?
Also what does russia do vs sioux to make it close, rush? I rarely ever have played this mu but the only times I ever win vs a solid player as russia vs sioux are when I wall + sea lame.

[Diarouga]

Japan: easy
China: Russia favoured
India: Close but Russia loses
Aztec: On terrible maps you can win the match ups but on 90% of the maps, it's just aztec favoured
Sioux: Close, but again on TP maps it's Sioux favoured
Iro: menu=>resign
Dutch: Russia favoured, even more on no hunt maps
Spain: Very close
Otto: guess
France: Fre favoured ofc
Ger: ger favoured ofc
Brit: close on average RE maps
Port: Depends on the map

Do you think russia vs. china is favored on a map like Mongolia with a lot of herdables, or just on normal RE maps?
Also what does russia do vs sioux to make it close, rush? I rarely ever have played this mu but the only times I ever win vs a solid player as russia vs sioux are when I wall + sea lame.

On a map like Mongolia China wins, but in general it's a good MU for Russia.
Rushing sioux sucks, just take some tps, build bh to secure your hunts and go for a musk semi, then in age 3 you just do a musk/strel/CA composition and wait untill he wastes his army. But be sure to wall the map a bit so he can't abuse his mobilty and don't fight on open spaces. Usually if you have your army between 2 bh, it's pretty hard for him to break you because of pathing issues and reinforcement.

[Garja]

Brits and Ports are rather easy for Russia on RE imo

[deleted_user]

How is KingRichards build good when I beat it going full swiss pike/uhlan

It's surprisingly underrated for his skill level. Players don't know how to deal with such an all in rush like that. Someone said he has constant vill production which is just false. He cuts vills if he won't get a batch of musks out which means it's not super uncommon for him to only make 1 batch in age 2 in an 11 min game.

But of course you're a major, kingrichard's rush is like throwing pebbles at a concrete wall vs you.

[farran34]

Japan: easy
China: Russia favoured
India: Close but Russia loses
Aztec: On terrible maps you can win the match ups but on 90% of the maps, it's just aztec favoured
Sioux: Close, but again on TP maps it's Sioux favoured
Iro: menu=>resign
Dutch: Russia favoured, even more on no hunt maps
Spain: Very close
Otto: guess
France: Fre favoured ofc
Ger: ger favoured ofc
Brit: close on average RE maps
Port: Depends on the map

Do you think russia vs. china is favored on a map like Mongolia with a lot of herdables, or just on normal RE maps?
Also what does russia do vs sioux to make it close, rush? I rarely ever have played this mu but the only times I ever win vs a solid player as russia vs sioux are when I wall + sea lame.

On a map like Mongolia China wins, but in general it's a good MU for Russia.
Rushing sioux sucks, just take some tps, build bh to secure your hunts and go for a musk semi, then in age 3 you just do a musk/strel/CA composition and wait untill he wastes his army. But be sure to wall the map a bit so he can't abuse his mobilty and don't fight on open spaces. Usually if you have your army between 2 bh, it's pretty hard for him to break you because of pathing issues and reinforcement.

Ok thanks

[yurashic]

Japan: easy
China: Russia favoured
India: Close but Russia loses
Aztec: On terrible maps you can win the match ups but on 90% of the maps, it's just aztec favoured
Sioux: Close, but again on TP maps it's Sioux favoured
Iro: menu=>resign
Dutch: Russia favoured, even more on no hunt maps
Spain: Very close
Otto: guess
France: Fre favoured ofc
Ger: ger favoured ofc
Brit: close on average RE maps
Port: Depends on the map

Agree with all, except for India and Britain.

I'd say these two civilizations are the strongest counters to Russia out of all. You just can't beat their better units with worse economy, plus Britain is faster and India has an Agra fort.

[tedere12]

I can't see why you think Britain is better than France vs Russia.

[LordCharlie_131]

I would also say brits beats russia, but the more worse the players/map it becomes more russia favoured.

[yurashic]

I can't see why you think Britain is better than France vs Russia.

Britain is more suitable for colonial play. France is a hard counter too. :)

[LordCharlie_131]

I can't see why you think Britain is better than France vs Russia.

One point is, because brits colo is better then france colo and they dont need to go to fortress and france colo < russia colo.

[Jaeger]

Spain: Very close

So what changed to make this unwinnable for Russia? People making more than 10 skirms instead of rods again?

[tedere12]

I guess you are mentioning a long colonial game where musk upgrades are utilized since longbow is not the best unit vs russia. At that moment the game should be over since there are so many other crate/unit shipments you can ship before the musk upgrades. And france has a better early age 2 eco and strong villagers so I guess that makes france a more suitable civ to play versus russia. I still believe that british beat russia on most maps but I can't see why you guys think its a hard counter. I mean their composition is not the best versus the russian one

[yurashic]

Spain: Very close

So what changed to make this unwinnable for Russia? People making more than 10 skirms instead of rods again?

It is already more in favour of Spain on RE, improved lancer shipments and good maps on the fan patch make it even harder.

[yurashic]

I guess you are mentioning a long colonial game where musk upgrades are utilized since longbow is not the best unit vs russia. At that moment the game should be over since there are so many other crate/unit shipments you can ship before the musk upgrades. And france has a better early age 2 eco and strong villagers so I guess that makes france a more suitable civ to play versus russia. I still believe that british beat russia on most maps but I can't see why you guys think its a hard counter. I mean their composition is not the best versus the russian one

Go hussar start and trap his 5 musketeers and 5 cossacks under your tower, add musketeers, send cavalry hitpoints and musketeer attack.

You could also try the Aklak build where you build 2 military buildings and send 700 gold as your first card. It was discussed in a recent thread.

[pecelot]

It's not like the French can't do an Aklak rush. Actually, they have 400w politician, which suits them more nicely for such a strategy.
It's not true IMO that the French have a better early economy than the British with all the manor houses, wood and vills shipments.
Generally I think you should try to defend the initial Russian pushes, make some manors, mass enough military, mainly musks and huss, send 1 or 2 upgrades and push if you're forced to by the lack of hunts. You can have a very powerful late age 2 with all the aforementioned houses and 4 (!) viable unit upgrades.

[macacoalbino]

They do have a slightly better eco early on. They click up with more vills and reach age 2 with slightly less vills, but with placer mines and a TP.
Idk if this also counts but their houses provide full 10pop (instead of 9 for brits because of the vill spawn) while costing 35w less and less VS to build- i guess it makes them a bit more efficient to spam army than brits in the first few minutes in colonial...(sry if i said something wrong I'm about to go to sleep and didnt put too much thought into this post)

[momuuu]

The house argument is kinda weird because youre saying brit houses suck because they give free vills basically :p

[farran34]

I guess you are mentioning a long colonial game where musk upgrades are utilized since longbow is not the best unit vs russia. At that moment the game should be over since there are so many other crate/unit shipments you can ship before the musk upgrades. And france has a better early age 2 eco and strong villagers so I guess that makes france a more suitable civ to play versus russia. I still believe that british beat russia on most maps but I can't see why you guys think its a hard counter. I mean their composition is not the best versus the russian one

Go hussar start and trap his 5 musketeers and 5 cossacks under your tower, add musketeers, send cavalry hitpoints and musketeer attack.

You could also try the Aklak build where you build 2 military buildings and send 700 gold as your first card. It was discussed in a recent thread.

A good russia player wont let his 5 musk 5 coss get trapped though

[Lukas_L99]

I guess you are mentioning a long colonial game where musk upgrades are utilized since longbow is not the best unit vs russia. At that moment the game should be over since there are so many other crate/unit shipments you can ship before the musk upgrades. And france has a better early age 2 eco and strong villagers so I guess that makes france a more suitable civ to play versus russia. I still believe that british beat russia on most maps but I can't see why you guys think its a hard counter. I mean their composition is not the best versus the russian one

Go hussar start and trap his 5 musketeers and 5 cossacks under your tower, add musketeers, send cavalry hitpoints and musketeer attack.

You could also try the Aklak build where you build 2 military buildings and send 700 gold as your first card. It was discussed in a recent thread.

A good russia player wont let his 5 musk 5 coss get trapped though

Well but then he can't keep you off res well enough+you can raid him and finally outgather him or beat him with a superior army

[Jaeger]

The house argument is kinda weird because youre saying brit houses suck because they give free vills basically :p

Yes wtf I build houses for 10 pop not 9, I execute the vills that dare to come out

@666_X

notification

[farran34]

Well but then he can't keep you off res well enough+you can raid him and finally outgather him or beat him with a superior army

On EP, if you get an age up without any idle (not very hard with a small food treasure), you can definitely disrupt villagers without getting caught. Maybe you can't on RE if you have a bit of idle and brit makes stable asap after aging, but you still shouldn't get musk + cossack caught unless you are being careless. I was just commenting on that a good Russian player should never get his cossack + musk caught if he is playing smart and paying attention, as that just means he over extended. On RE I think British is probably favored with good hunts, but on EP (from my experience) it seems Russia favored.

The way I view the mu is that if Russia can scout well and adapt, they should have the advantage on ep since they just adjust their BO according to what the British player does. If it looks like British is going for a late timing and going eco, you can go more eco yourself or semi-ff for cannon where you should be in a good situation either way as you have map control. If it is obvious that the British player is cutting corners to go for a fast timing, you can do the same and if you hold the push convincingly you definitely have the upper hand. The small buff to Russia on EP often makes the difference for me in holding the timings, since you are a bit faster and smoother while you slightly slow them down with being in their base a bit quicker, but perhaps it is just a mental factor.

[Lukas_L99]

On EP Russia probably wins, I was talking about RE

[farran34]

On EP Russia probably wins, I was talking about RE

On RE your probably right. From my experience the 5 huss come out early enough that you cant really do much damage with the 5 musk 5 coss push other than make him pull a few vills off food for a few seconds. The cossacks will keep him in base for a bit though, which is why in general imo 5 coss is needed even if you dont do much damage with it. On RE you should still never lose your musk and cossack if you are playing smart, just means you cant push in very far if brit aged up fast.

[pecelot]

They do have a slightly better eco early on. They click up with more vills and reach age 2 with slightly less vills, but with placer mines and a TP.

You make manors in transition, though! After 4 CDBs you basically lack eco shipments, whereas as Brits you have as many as 3 of those.