What would it take to make Forts viable?

[zoom]

According to historical precedent, basically the anti-Mart.

[momuuu]

In a battle over the last handful of hunts and mines, a fort can sometimes secure those and force your opponent to go on mills and plantations while you dont have to yet. That usage of the fort is sometimes so good that I dont think putting it in your deck is much of a stretch. I had the fort in my decks for a long time actually but felt like it was just slightly too situational and took it out. Its often like a number 11-13 age 3 shipment to me though.

[Challenger_Marco]

They are accepted as 'trash'. No good player uses them for a simple reasons because a stationary power << a mobile power.

What nags me is that for civs that should seemingly make good use stationary defenses e.g Dutch(securing banks + 2nd/3rd hunt) and Portgueese(securing TP chokepoint / forwardTC / hunts), it is still not a good choice.

What would it take to makes Forts a viable shipement?
Would damage buffs help?
How about shipment and/or build time?

I like the defensive boomy type of play, and it sucks that a key shipment tailored for that style of play is useless.

If u are defensive player send x4 tower in age 3 ,U can secure a lot of hunts ,mines .When it comes to fort it's not always viable but u can also use it for map control and as a fb in team games.B it I guess x4 towers and fort with tower upgrades are good .If u place all 4 towers in your base and upgrade them in 1 vs 1 you oppo will be killed easily if u micro your tc + towers .Yeah forts and towers are good in tg especially doubt for x1.Btw what's damage of a tower?
I think 4 towers are ok coz they cost 1000w which is shipment in age 3.
Regarding this any ideas? And 4 towers in Nilla civs I mean.
Please tell hat u think about sending 4 towers.

[britishmusketeer]

If u are defensive player send x4 tower in age 3 Op u can secure a lot of hunts ,mines tc when it comes to fort it's not always viable but u can also use it for map control and fb.In team games worth I guess x4 towers and fort with tower upgrades opop .If u place all 4 towers in your base and upgrade them in 1 vs 1 you oppo will be killed easily if u micro your tc + towers .ATM no one played a tower style or fort style I think someone may do a good use of it.
I think 4 towers are Op coz they cost 1000w which is good in age 3.
Regarding this any ideas? And 4 towers in Nilla civs I mean.
Please tell hat u think about sending 4 towers.

4 towers is bad in 1v1 since even 4 towers together do very little damage in the fortress age and if you want map control you are better off sending 1kw and building tcs. In teamgames maps are much larger so outposts can be useful for protecting vills from raids later into the game however by that stage in the game you want to be sending eco/unit upgrades.

[pecelot]

They are accepted as 'trash'. No good player uses them for a simple reasons because a stationary power << a mobile power.

What nags me is that for civs that should seemingly make good use stationary defenses e.g Dutch(securing banks + 2nd/3rd hunt) and Portgueese(securing TP chokepoint / forwardTC / hunts), it is still not a good choice.

What would it take to makes Forts a viable shipement?
Would damage buffs help?
How about shipment and/or build time?

I like the defensive boomy type of play, and it sucks that a key shipment tailored for that style of play is useless.

Hey, we already have a brilliant 9-page-long discussion about that! You should definitely familiarise yourself with it!
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=6905

Honestly, viable forts would make the game worse. It'd play slower than it already does, requiring artillery in age 3 to realistically kill it if they were to become "viable." It's much more exciting to see crate/unit shipment spans in age 3.

well said
Just look at how castles work in AoC — without trebuchets it's virtually impossible to take them down, and in the Imperial Age it usually is all about them. That AoE3 works differently I like a lot.

Forts serve a unique niche as they are now as a not bad troll card; and that's okay. If we tried to make every card viable that'd just be ridiculous. Think: advanced market, team build houses faster, team cheaper market upgrades, and a whole host of other cards I am missing right now.

Starve?? COMPSTOMP??? (ps. my guide is still in the making [*])

[...] team cheaper market upgrades, [...]

what? is that a thing? uhmmmmm

Yes, it's a separate card, I recall the Dutch having it!

As others have said, I don't think forts are bad, just super defensive. It's really hard to take out a town when there's an army + town center fire + fort in your way. I'd like to see some of the elite players try and make boomy builds that require a fort and see if perception on them changes.

That said, here's my idea.

Make a weaker version of a fort available in the colonial age, via shipment or Explorer building it. Only 1 allowed, costs 400w, and is a nerfedversion of the current fort. But stronger than an outpost. (and in age 3 it upgrades to normal automatically.)

I think what this does it allows a player to use his 400w age up to plop down a fort to assert map control over contested resources early on (which is the point of a real life fort is it not?) and also makes turtling a legit strategy again.

It's not necessarily a hopeless idea per se, but as it was already pointed out, EP doesn't target buffing defensive play, hence I do think it's pretty hopeless, with that in mind

Yeah you're right doesn't seem so bad in that situation. But still I'd argue that ideally, an FI should be easily scouted and especially with a fort placed, the best counter wouldn't be trying to push the fort but to follow up with an FI of your own with map control and stagecoach tp line.

Well, for one, you don't have to go for a naked FI, you can adjust, stabilise in the Fortress Age, battle some small skirmishes, then send a fort and age up or abuse your economical advantage. Think Ports/Dutch

forts mlight be viable if they coud be built with settlers after having send a fortwagon. ( build limit 1 obviously )

I like this idea. But of course building time+cost should be quite high.

http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Fort ... mpires_III)
600w, 500c

If u are defensive player send x4 tower in age 3 ,U can secure a lot of hunts ,mines .When it comes to fort it's not always viable but u can also use it for map control and as a fb in team games.B it I guess x4 towers and fort with tower upgrades are good .If u place all 4 towers in your base and upgrade them in 1 vs 1 you oppo will be killed easily if u micro your tc + towers .Yeah forts and towers are good in tg especially doubt for x1.Btw what's damage of a tower?
I think 4 towers are ok coz they cost 1000w which is shipment in age 3.
Regarding this any ideas? And 4 towers in Nilla civs I mean.
Please tell hat u think about sending 4 towers.

I think only the Dutch have that shipment, right? Also, it's of course TAD we're all talking about on this site. :)

[Diarouga]

They are accepted as 'trash'. No good player uses them for a simple reasons because a stationary power << a mobile power.

What nags me is that for civs that should seemingly make good use stationary defenses e.g Dutch(securing banks + 2nd/3rd hunt) and Portgueese(securing TP chokepoint / forwardTC / hunts), it is still not a good choice.

What would it take to makes Forts a viable shipement?
Would damage buffs help?
How about shipment and/or build time?

I like the defensive boomy type of play, and it sucks that a key shipment tailored for that style of play is useless.

If u are defensive player send x4 tower in age 3 ,U can secure a lot of hunts ,mines .When it comes to fort it's not always viable but u can also use it for map control and as a fb in team games.B it I guess x4 towers and fort with tower upgrades are good .If u place all 4 towers in your base and upgrade them in 1 vs 1 you oppo will be killed easily if u micro your tc + towers .Yeah forts and towers are good in tg especially doubt for x1.Btw what's damage of a tower?
I think 4 towers are ok coz they cost 1000w which is shipment in age 3.
Regarding this any ideas? And 4 towers in Nilla civs I mean.
Please tell hat u think about sending 4 towers.

4 tower are fucking easy to kill, 10 musks are enough.
Against a fort however, if you have a skirm/goon army, you just can't break it, maybe with 50 units, and even then, it's not worth.

[deleted_user]

Wow that's an incredible amount of effort to quote so many separate posts in one reply. No wonder you're mod. Damn, well said pezzy

[pecelot]

4 tower are fucking easy to kill, 10 musks are enough.

Although I generally agree, I think it's technically incorrect

@sircallen

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marry me after you get tired of yehrom pls

[Diarouga]

4 tower are fucking easy to kill, 10 musks are enough.

Although I generally agree, I think it's technically incorrect

@sircallen

notification

marry me after you get tired of yehrom pls

I typed too fast, 10 muskets are enough to kill one.

[deleted_user]

Is it enough to kill one with enemy explorer and 5 dogs?

<nightmares of 2 hp towers vs Spain>

[Diarouga]

Is it enough to kill one with enemy explorer and 5 dogs?

<nightmares of 2 hp towers vs Spain>

Hum probably, but it's not relevant since it's not about spain but about tower vs fort.

[pecelot]

I guess you could pick dogs one-by-one, kite the explorer away from the tower, come back and destroy it!

[momuuu]

4 tower are fucking easy to kill, 10 musks are enough.

Although I generally agree, I think it's technically incorrect

@sircallen

notification

marry me after you get tired of yehrom pls

No plx no steal.

But yeah, good post pezzy.

[Jaeger]

4 tower are fucking easy to kill, 10 musks are enough.

Although I generally agree, I think it's technically incorrect

@sircallen

notification

marry me after you get tired of yehrom pls

Well 10 strelets can kill 4 towers, but only if microed correctly @Hazza54321

notification

pls teach us

[fei123456]

forts are actually "unbeatable" in age 3. however they are too vulnerable when building.

[noissance]

Big LOS and Range buff (make them able to snipe mortars even)

[Lukas_L99]

Big LOS and Range buff (make them able to snipe mortars even)

Yeah I mean why don't we let them just shoot over the whole map, give them like a monitor ability or something

[noissance]

Perfect. Give it a 0.2x artillery though.

Either that or enable them to garrison military units and do more damage like in air 2.

[pecelot]

You can always petard this mutha-phukka

[Zhanson10]

i would agree with taking off a third of the forts hitpoints but halving the build time

[bugattivitesse]

I disagree with OP. I think, like others have said here, that Forts can be very helpful in the right situation. In defending against a FF for example, following someone up, and then shipping a fort is much better for defending than shipping 2 falcs or 5 goons or whatever. A fort will completely stall their attack, you can build more vils and overtake their eco. Then you can ship the cannons and build more units, making their FF/Semi obsolete. A fort can be key in giving yourself enough time to run down their FF.

[howlingwolfpaw]

I always thought it odd a fort only has 1 shot. I would like to see it with a few types of ammunition, like 1 faconete(maybe 2 less range), then like 5-10 weaker musket fires within 12 range. and maybe 2 skirm like fires. so it is a litteral fortress of protection.