India vs Dutch

[roiarthurbis]

I'm having trouble playing vs india as dutch. Even when india plays super passive their eco just surpasses dutch's entirely. There's really nothing i can do except end the game at 10 mins, however with an agra fort in their base it's no so easy. Any tips? This is also not even making units and age 2 and not losing a single ville until age 3.

[sirmusket]

Ik man, the thuggee rush can be way too much for dutch to deal with and then followed up with some mams, i figured the only way to counter this is full spy/halb @IAmSoldieR

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[britishmusketeer]

Assuming your are talking about the game you just played vs soldier, you outgathered him even though you lost more vills. I think the main issue from looking at the stats of that game is that you had a worse k.d ratio despite him going nearly pure inf. http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameS ... _Supremacy

[roiarthurbis]

Tbh if you want to gain pr just lag and play japan. even a 1st lt can be a colonel that way.

[sirmusket]

Honestly India wins this MU if played right, Dutch can still win but I think its harder from their end

[deleted_user]

Was this game EP or RE?

[Diarouga]

You should wall with skirms behind it, then build 4bank and go age 3. In age 3 you should be able to outmass with skirm/ruyt.

[pecelot]

I think with a full boomed base you can just surpass his state by abusing age 3 advantages in the form of stronger military, arsenal, better upgrades and cannons.
Or just watch game 1:

[video]https://youtu.be/kX3F0q8mFYY?t=22m38s[/video]

[Diarouga]

I think with a full boomed base you can just surpass his state by abusing age 3 advantages in the form of stronger military, arsenal, better upgrades and cannons.
Or just watch game 1:

[video]https://youtu.be/kX3F0q8mFYY?t=22m38s[/video]

Well, H2O went for an all-in, if he goes eco and raph sends CM, he's in a bad spot, also note that walls are less expansive than CM.

[pecelot]

You certainly scouted somewhat aggressively-placed Agra. Of course CM is not always a necessity.

[Diarouga]

You certainly scouted somewhat aggressively-placed Agra. Of course CM is not always a necessity.

That's true, but still

[lordraphael]

you guys dont get it lol. Sending CM didnt hurt my shipment progression in any way haha. I had a tp and i had constant shipments available. Yes H2o played in my hands by going for an allin but if i hadnt scouted an agra i wouldnt have send CM anyways. Tp as dutch just rapes any agressive play as it allows you to send 2 age 1 cards and still have consecutive shipments in age 2. Walls are for noobs dont use those

[Hazza54321]

Pfft raphas just op

[Garja]

India build in that game was very questionable, just like the decision to run away from the MM. TP > cons early on. Also need a 6 min push with sepoy+cav just to bell vills and delay bank progression. 10 min timing later is ok but only if some damage has been done previously.

[deleted_user]

Pfft raphas just op

You got alot to learn hurry boy

[SoldieR]

you guys dont get it lol. Sending CM didnt hurt my shipment progression in any way haha. I had a tp and i had constant shipments available. Yes H2o played in my hands by going for an allin but if i hadnt scouted an agra i wouldnt have send CM anyways. Tp as dutch just rapes any agressive play as it allows you to send 2 age 1 cards and still have consecutive shipments in age 2. Walls are for noobs dont use those

Ya i knew when u went tp exactly why and how it would work

[Hazza54321]

Pfft raphas just op

You got alot to learn hurry boy

How will lordbreeze teach me

[DaRkNiTe1698]

Tbh if you want to gain pr just lag and play japan. even a 1st lt can be a colonel that way.

[Mitoe]

There are a few things you need to do in this matchup before you can decide how to play it.

Try to position your explorer and envoy in the middle of the map and just outside of his base around 2:45ish so you can scout the Agra villager, and try to block this as much as you can. Ideally you force him to place his wonder at home, rather than in the middle. If you manage to pick up and native treasures or pets before this point it will really go a long way in helping you deny the forward Agra. If the Agra is already down before this point he is 10/10ing, and you should begin preparing for an all in rush.

If you've managed to successfully block the Agra then perfect. The game is going exactly how you want it to go. Open with 5 huss, but make nothing more than that. The only purpose of those hussar are to keep him penned in his base. Try to avoid losing those hussar, they're more valuable as a threat and buying you time than they are trading them off for vills. Be wary of a zamburak start. Keep your envoy or explorer near his base when he ages if he's Karni, and if you scout a stable start consider cancelling your hussar or making fewer than 5.

In this situation I would recommend bank wagon 700w 600w. Chop extra wood after you get your first bank in transition for a stable and hunting dogs + steel traps. Delay your hussar batch until you have these upgrades along with your stable and 40 pop available. Assuming you've done everything correctly, when you have 8-10 vills on coin with 2 banks and the rest on food with steel traps, if you queue your hussar when you have ~220f and 110c, you should just barely complete a full batch of hussar. After that batch move all your coin vills to food to save enough food to drop your last 2 banks off of your 700w shipment. Once those 2 banks are down, 5-6v on coin, and the rest on food, and you should hit exactly 1200f and 1000c not long after. Keep an eye out during your raids for clues to whether he's going to timing push or FF. Also keep your envoy/explorer near his base at all times. With your 600w you have a couple of options. 2 military buildings (2 raxes or 1 rax 1 extra stable) and 2 houses or one military building and 4 houses. Most of the time I think you'll want the extra military building and maybe buying 100w for an extra house. The extra 3-5 units you get from that building will be important in holding any timings. IMO the ideal setup when you hit age 3 is 2 raxes 1 stable, for 8-10 skirm and 5 Ruyters, while shipping 9 ruyter. Consider chopping some wood in transition for some wall segments. When you hit age 3 either send 1000w if he's electing to follow you up or ship 1-2 unit shipments before 1000w if he's doing a timing. Skipping a villager for a batch of 4-5 envoys may also help body block and tank for a pretty low cost. From here just ship whatever's needed, preferably unit upgrades like Infantry/Cavalry Combat. Infantry Attack/HP are good if you can afford to send them too. Cannons are a decent option in early fortress against India, particularly if they're still in Colonial, but be aware you're restricting your mobility, which can screw you over if he gets a good engage with things like Urumi/Mahout. For the most part just focus on skirm/ruyter with upgrades, maybe mix huss to tank a bit or if he lacks anticav. Grab CIR if he tries to insist that Sepoy are good units.

If you don't manage to deny the forward Agra you may still start hussar, you should be able to hold a 12 sepoy push with hussar, TC Fire, explorer, and MM, maybe even a batch of envoys to make his micro a bit more difficult (unless he 10/10s, then you probably need skirm). This might take some practice, but honestly starting rax seems painful vs India. I find you usually struggle when you age up if you start rax, but I haven't had the opportunity to practice vs the 12 sepoy or consulate rush enough to know for sure I guess. So you can take this with a grain of salt.

In my opinion, the best way to play against this style of India is to hold with as few units as possible and then age with ~3 banks—unless, of course, he suicided his whole starting army into you and you're way ahead. Then you may as well make a 4th bank. On RE patch this can be tricky, because the banks won't give you a lot of xp for your shipment in fortress. You might want to consider skipping the market until you can get 1000w in and build a TP off of your 700w shipment instead. Something like Bank Wagon 700w 700g or 700w Bank Wagon 700g for a quick age up usually works fairly well, just in time for their timing push with a shipment ready if you're on EP with a market, or on RE if you skipped the market for a TP. Same story as before, ship military units to hold the timing push and then 1000w whenever you're safe. Aim to play the Fortress age the same as with the other start, but be careful not to kill yourself on the agra too early.

[gibson]

is a 14 vil age up decent on 500g start? I've found that I can just about always do it without idling , but its hard to get up a bank before I age. Although being up at 350 is nice.

[Mitoe]

14v age up is OK sometimes. But usually it doesn't help you at all because it doesn't increase the speed of your bank, which leaves you without a shipment when you reach age 2 because you don't have a shipment yet from that bank XP. I only do 14v if I have very good treasures, as most of the time it's just better to age with 15v and get the bank up earlier.

[lemmings121]

@Mitoe

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that post is pure gold, thanks for the effort.

we should have some way of saving those great posts that show up here sometimes.. In a couple days this thread will be lost ;(

[deleted_user0]

it's clear that mitoe has only played vs noob india.

[lemmings121]

it's clear that mitoe has only played vs noob india.

care to write something?

...

[Garja]

You're not going to hold even the easiest well executed sepoy rush without starting skirms. You're even more not going to hold if you send 700w 600w.