ESOC Native Analysis

Germany blasdg
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ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by blasdg »

Actually I think that Nootka on Cascade Range are quite decent as well. They have high HP and nice siege (30 each), I could imagine using them vs slow FFs such as China or as a solution to gay shrine boom.
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ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Mirari »

the 40% berries upgrade looks nice for jap.

Nootka War chief so cool but expensive :/

naive me wants to believe that Udasi rush with Chakrams + Monk HP could work with india or China...
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ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by zoom »

stubb wrote:the 40% berries upgrade looks nice for jap.

Nootka War chief so cool but expensive :/

naive me wants to believe that Udasi rush with Chakrams + Monk HP could work with india or China...
Does not apply to cherry-berries.
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ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by jkl »

cree cheaper buildings with japan or brits is good. 56w shrines, and probably even cheaper manors with vc. getting half of the houses with 700w seems good. but the build limits r just too low. 8 apache is bad. having a double build limit for natives would be more viable since u cant go only natives in a 1v1. also, mapuche r good in team, especially with a dutch or otto teammate. skirm/abus + mapuche is hard to beat. they train fast and r cheap with good stats, and on araucania there r like 7 nat tps. navajo age 2 stats r good, and much more effective than age 2 skirms, perhaps even age 3 skirms. 200hp + 13 ranged x 2 r good base stats, and with french upgrades navajo r basically age 4 skirms in age 2/3
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ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by zoom »

Build limits???
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Durokan »

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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by lordraphael »

quite frankly i think apache are so good that they should be totally viable in a 1v1 i could def see them being used in regular high level games. There stats look great the upgrade in age 3 makes them true villager killing machines. Ill definetly try to incorporate them in one of my builds. I mean they are a far stronger anti cav than zambs. Only drawback is the low building limit but if you want to do an age 2 based strat they should be a wonderful addition for civs that have no acces to goons in age 2
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by lordraphael »

macacoalbino wrote:I think that seminoles for brit lbow or japs yumi are quite viable too.

seminoles up fro japan is insane it makes yumi even more ridicolous than they currently are. I think with that up yumi can have like 40 attack or more in age 2 which is hilarious
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by zoom »

lordraphael wrote:quite frankly i think apache are so good that they should be totally viable in a 1v1 i could def see them being used in regular high level games. There stats look great the upgrade in age 3 makes them true villager killing machines. Ill definetly try to incorporate them in one of my builds. I mean they are a far stronger anti cav than zambs. Only drawback is the low building limit but if you want to do an age 2 based strat they should be a wonderful addition for civs that have no acces to goons in age 2

Aren't they essentially a Dragoon clone? In this case, they are slightly worse than a Zamburak per cost.
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Jaeger »

lordraphael wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:I think that seminoles for brit lbow or japs yumi are quite viable too.

seminoles up fro japan is insane it makes yumi even more ridicolous than they currently are. I think with that up yumi can have like 40 attack or more in age 2 which is hilarious


abus have 40 attack already
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by thebritish »

ovi12 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
macacoalbino wrote:I think that seminoles for brit lbow or japs yumi are quite viable too.

seminoles up fro japan is insane it makes yumi even more ridicolous than they currently are. I think with that up yumi can have like 40 attack or more in age 2 which is hilarious


abus have 40 attack already

you wanna nerf yumi's because of seminole upgrade?
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Jaeger »

thebritish wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes


abus have 40 attack already

you wanna nerf yumi's because of seminole upgrade?

Yes ofc. Either that or make seminole upgrade available only in age 5
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by thebritish »

ovi12 wrote:
thebritish wrote:
ovi12 wrote:abus have 40 attack already

you wanna nerf yumi's because of seminole upgrade?

Yes ofc. Either that or make seminole upgrade available only in age 5

but, yumi's have low HP, big attack. Also, if the seminole upgrade is in age 5, only treaty noobs will use it.
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Durokan »

thebritish wrote:
ovi12 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Yes ofc. Either that or make seminole upgrade available only in age 5

but, yumi's have low HP, big attack. Also, if the seminole upgrade is in age 5, only treaty noobs will use it.


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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Papist »

Durokan wrote:
edeholland wrote:Tiger claws are both heavy inf and light inf if I am correct, making them a very weird unit. They are like a coyo/rattan but not 100% the same...idk



[strike]They are Infantry class and function like an urumi without splash damage. I think.[/strike]

Edit: In game they are tagged as the following: Hand Infantry, Light Infantry, Infantry, Native Warrior
They are effective against anything tagged as infantry, ie skirms and archers n stuff. I mixed up my reds and my blues for the multipliers originally


No, they aren't like urumi because they counter light infantry, not HI. In fact, musks put them down fairly easily, especially in melee.

I had a 1st lieut Port troll me on Bayou with natives. I was China, and he kept sending waves of Seminoles to attack my tc. I never knew about Seminoles' high siege damage before then, and his strat very nearly worked. While taking my tc out in that case wouldn't have done him much good, I can think of many situations where a group of high-siege archers would come in very handy. Perhaps it could be used against a turtling player that is going water on Carolina, or against a player who is trying to go to Fortress.
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Re: ESOC Summer Native Analysis

Post by Durokan »

Papist wrote:
Durokan wrote:
edeholland wrote:Tiger claws are both heavy inf and light inf if I am correct, making them a very weird unit. They are like a coyo/rattan but not 100% the same...idk



[strike]They are Infantry class and function like an urumi without splash damage. I think.[/strike]

Edit: In game they are tagged as the following: Hand Infantry, Light Infantry, Infantry, Native Warrior
They are effective against anything tagged as infantry, ie skirms and archers n stuff. I mixed up my reds and my blues for the multipliers originally


No, they aren't like urumi because they counter light infantry, not HI. In fact, musks put them down fairly easily, especially in melee.

I had a 1st lieut Port troll me on Bayou with natives. I was China, and he kept sending waves of Seminoles to attack my tc. I never knew about Seminoles' high siege damage before then, and his strat very nearly worked. While taking my tc out in that case wouldn't have done him much good, I can think of many situations where a group of high-siege archers would come in very handy. Perhaps it could be used against a turtling player that is going water on Carolina, or against a player who is trying to go to Fortress.


Yea, for reference [strike] is the bb code for strikethrough on *really* old comments. The edit part of the quote corrected the urumi statement.
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Wuangaga »

zoom wrote:
lordraphael wrote:quite frankly i think apache are so good that they should be totally viable in a 1v1 i could def see them being used in regular high level games. There stats look great the upgrade in age 3 makes them true villager killing machines. Ill definetly try to incorporate them in one of my builds. I mean they are a far stronger anti cav than zambs. Only drawback is the low building limit but if you want to do an age 2 based strat they should be a wonderful addition for civs that have no acces to goons in age 2

Aren't they essentially a Dragoon clone? In this case, they are slightly worse than a Zamburak per cost.

They are an exact dragoon clone afaik and dragons in colonial are pretty useful.
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Durokan »

Wuangaga wrote:
zoom wrote:
lordraphael wrote:quite frankly i think apache are so good that they should be totally viable in a 1v1 i could def see them being used in regular high level games. There stats look great the upgrade in age 3 makes them true villager killing machines. Ill definetly try to incorporate them in one of my builds. I mean they are a far stronger anti cav than zambs. Only drawback is the low building limit but if you want to do an age 2 based strat they should be a wonderful addition for civs that have no acces to goons in age 2

Aren't they essentially a Dragoon clone? In this case, they are slightly worse than a Zamburak per cost.

They are an exact dragoon clone afaik and dragons in colonial are pretty useful.

They are an exact copy of dragoons with the exception of dragoon's 2x multiplier to artillery.
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Asateo »

Zapotec wood crates cost = 225food and 225gold (not 225 wood)
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Asateo »

Just played a game where a chinese player rushed me with chakrams and won.

I've never really thought of rushin with natives. Which are the natives who are more cost effective then regular units?
Carib blowgunner, cherokee rifleman, klamanth and chakram seem good, any others?
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Snuden »

Hmm, did you forget to mention: NR 60 NWS HM" ?
I mean, thats the only remedy I can think of right now.
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by Asateo »

Not really, he aged earlier then me with china, card units + chakrams, I survived first assault, but 5nd went down.

I take it your reply means it's not that good a strat :)
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

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Post by Asateo »

Was looking for which natives are on which (RE) maps.

Where there is not a set number of native types, the value is randomly chosen.
Some numbers differ depending on number of players.

If anyone is interested: Thx to Cu3hara. http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=15,25913,75,365

Amazonia
* 2 Tupi
* 1 Carib
or
* 1 Tupi
* 1 Carib
* 1 Inca

Bayou
* 2 Cherokee
* 2-3 Seminoles

Carribean
* 3 Carib (or 1 Carib if FFA)

Carolina
* 1-2 Seminoles (50:50 chance of either 1 or 2)
* 2 Cherokee

Great Lakes (2 of the Iroquois villages placed only if # of human players >= 4)
* 4 Iroquois
or
* 3 Iroquois
* 1 Lakota
or
* 2 Iroquois
* 2 Lakota

Great Plains
* 3 Comanche
* 3 Lakota

New England
* 2 Iroquois
or
* 2 Cherokee

Pampas
* 1 Tupi
* 2 Inca

Patagonia
* No Natives

Rockies
* 2 Lakota
or
* 2 Commanche

Saguenay
* 2 Cree
* 2 Nootka

Sonora
* 1 Maya
* 1 or 2 Aztecs (2 if no central uber mine)

Texas
* 3 Commanche

Yucatan
* Aztecs and/or Maya (1 per player placed near starting location)

Yukon
* 2 Cree
or
* 2 Nootka

cue (DBD_cuehara)
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Re: ESOC Native Analysis

Post by pecelot »

#BringBackIroNatives

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