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>>> New Strategy Wall <<<

Well I was going to ask that you include my brit guide but i just re read it and it's trash. I don't even remember the last time i aged with 200g + tower

so you do 500f ?

yeah tbh i do 5v 500f cav build in 80% of MUs now for some reason. Feels nice.

I fixed the links and added a couple more, should work nicely :)

deleted_user wrote:yeah tbh i do 5v 500f cav build in 80% of MUs now for some reason. Feels nice.

Sounds interesting, you should definitely do a quick write up.

no market, 3 manors + 200w for stable in transition, age with 500f, put ~13-15 vills on coin, ship 5 vills (put on food), go 5/5/sometimes 5 huss. 700w next. Holds essentially all rushes with smart tc fire and mm pop. It's a cav presence most civs aren't able to deal with.

deleted_user wrote:no market, 3 manors + 200w for stable in transition, age with 500f, put ~13-15 vills on coin, ship 5 vills (put on food), go 5/5/sometimes 5 huss. 700w next. Holds essentially all rushes with smart tc fire and mm pop. It's a cav presence most civs aren't able to deal with.

Can follow up with either 600w or 700c I assume? Do you usually add a rax and mix musk or age?

add rax and mix muskets yeah. After 700w is usually 600w, 6 musk in extreme cases for a certain timing if you have no hunts for something.

I haven't experimented with it, but on wood starts you could grab an early tp, still chop manors in transition then go 5v, 700w, 600w?, 700g and age up.

The old Strategy wall had the Karni Mata build in India's section. This only have the Good Faith FF, please add the Karni Mata build viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8928&p=192693&hilit=Karni+mata#p192693 .

deleted_user wrote:no market, 3 manors + 200w for stable in transition, age with 500f, put ~13-15 vills on coin, ship 5 vills (put on food), go 5/5/sometimes 5 huss. 700w next. Holds essentially all rushes with smart tc fire and mm pop. It's a cav presence most civs aren't able to deal with.

Why 5 vills? why not 700w ? i think that would be so much better with 700w.

NekoBerk wrote:

deleted_user wrote:no market, 3 manors + 200w for stable in transition, age with 500f, put ~13-15 vills on coin, ship 5 vills (put on food), go 5/5/sometimes 5 huss. 700w next. Holds essentially all rushes with smart tc fire and mm pop. It's a cav presence most civs aren't able to deal with.

Why 5 vills? why not 700w ? i think that would be so much better with 700w.

With 700w you don't get full 5 cav batches after the first one. With 5 vills you can often go 5/5/5 Huss production. It just gives more tempo while also providing the same eco boost (5 vills) as 700w.

deleted_user wrote:yeah tbh i do 5v 500f cav build in 80% of MUs now for some reason. Feels nice.

you wise

deleted_user wrote:

NekoBerk wrote:

deleted_user wrote:no market, 3 manors + 200w for stable in transition, age with 500f, put ~13-15 vills on coin, ship 5 vills (put on food), go 5/5/sometimes 5 huss. 700w next. Holds essentially all rushes with smart tc fire and mm pop. It's a cav presence most civs aren't able to deal with.

Why 5 vills? why not 700w ? i think that would be so much better with 700w.

With 700w you don't get full 5 cav batches after the first one. With 5 vills you can often go 5/5/5 Huss production. It just gives more tempo while also providing the same eco boost (5 vills) as 700w.

But what about the XP from building the Manors? Isnt your shipment progression slowed?

Yeah slightly; but I feel you can do so much more with those extra Hussars. For instance, vs germany you can now contest their uhlan semi ff and put pressure on their vills while they age or siege their tp. You out-huss any semi ff, or make them make more than they want to. It's putting the ball in Brit's court for once. Not to mention I feel starting huss has just become better in higher-skilled games because they are so versatile. Having a larger cav mass of your own shuts down raids and applies pressure to your opponent's vills without having to open with a forward barracks and awkwardly open yourself up to raids.

It's all possible because of manor houses. Not only do you avoid yourself getting housed, but the resources gathered from 2 extra villagers from 2 extra manors instead of a market is roughly equal to the same if you had gotten market ups earlier. That's why I just wait until 700w. And then you just have more huss than 700w first build. It's faster. Keep in mind Brits age up before almost any other euro civs (dutch is faster) so getting 5/5/5 huss out is really good.

deleted_user wrote:Yeah slightly; but I feel you can do so much more with those extra Hussars. For instance, vs germany you can now contest their uhlan semi ff and put pressure on their vills while they age or siege their tp. You out-huss any semi ff, or make them make more than they want to. It's putting the ball in Brit's court for once. Not to mention I feel starting huss has just become better in higher-skilled games because they are so versatile. Having a larger cav mass of your own shuts down raids and applies pressure to your opponent's vills without having to open with a forward barracks and awkwardly open yourself up to raids.

It's all possible because of manor houses. Not only do you avoid yourself getting housed, but the resources gathered from 2 extra villagers from 2 extra manors instead of a market is roughly equal to the same if you had gotten market ups earlier. That's why I just wait until 700w. And then you just have more huss than 700w first build. It's faster. Keep in mind Brits age up before almost any other euro civs (dutch is faster) so getting 5/5/5 huss out is really good.

Yeah u can get 10huss out before france has started their second batch

@sircallen

deleted_user wrote:notification

So do you think that starting huss is better than musk in most matchups? Or is it just a specific strategy?

Darwin_ wrote:@sircallen

deleted_user wrote:notification

So do you think that starting huss is better than musk in most matchups? Or is it just a specific strategy?

I'd imagine its good vs russia, azzy, and all semi ff civs. Brit mirrors are completely different i assume. I'd imagine vs otto/iro rush this would be pretty bad.

Just depends on the MU and what your opponent. It's usually better than starting musks for me, personally, since most of my opponents are also opening up huss for some semi ff play. I would consider it better than musk in those situations. I would also always cav start vs russia or aztec because they can mass LI very quickly. I wouldnt start cav vs a 2x rax rush though, for instance, or an india 10/10 or vs a china disciple rush. Keep in mind you add a rax with 700w, it's not like you won't be making musketeers, they come relatively quickly still, but the amount of early game cav you mass is a dynamic tempo.

deleted_user wrote:Just depends on the MU and what your opponent. It's usually better than starting musks for me, personally, since most of my opponents are also opening up huss for some semi ff play. I would consider it better than musk in those situations. I would also always cav start vs russia or aztec because they can mass LI very quickly. I wouldnt start cav vs a 2x rax rush though, for instance, or an india 10/10 or vs a china disciple rush. Keep in mind you add a rax with 700w, it's not like you won't be making musketeers, they come relatively quickly still, but the amount of early game cav you mass is a dynamic tempo.

Might be good vs China actually. I've never tested it ofc but huss do pretty good vs steppes/disciples plus it forces China to either ship pikes or make keshik/qiang pikes. Ofc you'd have to mix musk but it could be better than startin musk.

sdsanft wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Just depends on the MU and what your opponent. It's usually better than starting musks for me, personally, since most of my opponents are also opening up huss for some semi ff play. I would consider it better than musk in those situations. I would also always cav start vs russia or aztec because they can mass LI very quickly. I wouldnt start cav vs a 2x rax rush though, for instance, or an india 10/10 or vs a china disciple rush. Keep in mind you add a rax with 700w, it's not like you won't be making musketeers, they come relatively quickly still, but the amount of early game cav you mass is a dynamic tempo.

Might be good vs China actually. I've never tested it ofc but huss do pretty good vs steppes/disciples plus it forces China to either ship pikes or make keshik/qiang pikes. Ofc you'd have to mix musk but it could be better than startin musk.

I was specifically talking about a disciple rush but it could still work then since that rush is so bad.

But yeah I do this build vs china too. Pretty good build.

deleted_user wrote:

sdsanft wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Just depends on the MU and what your opponent. It's usually better than starting musks for me, personally, since most of my opponents are also opening up huss for some semi ff play. I would consider it better than musk in those situations. I would also always cav start vs russia or aztec because they can mass LI very quickly. I wouldnt start cav vs a 2x rax rush though, for instance, or an india 10/10 or vs a china disciple rush. Keep in mind you add a rax with 700w, it's not like you won't be making musketeers, they come relatively quickly still, but the amount of early game cav you mass is a dynamic tempo.

Might be good vs China actually. I've never tested it ofc but huss do pretty good vs steppes/disciples plus it forces China to either ship pikes or make keshik/qiang pikes. Ofc you'd have to mix musk but it could be better than startin musk.

I was specifically talking about a disciple rush but it could still work then since that rush is so bad.

But yeah I do this build vs china too. Pretty good build.

yeah well, having that many huss out quickly is good especially since huss do pretty well against disciples.

deleted_user wrote:Just depends on the MU and what your opponent. It's usually better than starting musks for me, personally, since most of my opponents are also opening up huss for some semi ff play. I would consider it better than musk in those situations. I would also always cav start vs russia or aztec because they can mass LI very quickly. I wouldnt start cav vs a 2x rax rush though, for instance, or an india 10/10 or vs a china disciple rush. Keep in mind you add a rax with 700w, it's not like you won't be making musketeers, they come relatively quickly still, but the amount of early game cav you mass is a dynamic tempo.

Oh so this is still a colonial build? I though you were detailing a slow semi-ff strat. So do you go 5v 700w 600w, and then an upgrade card? Should I send musk attack or Huss Hp first?

And vs. FF civs like Spain and China, do you recommend training a lot of cav, harrassing, and then trying to get some age 2 timing push? Or do I just train 5 huss and then try to age and play in age 3?

Imo callen should do a write up about 5 vill british

all this talk of brit cav starts and nobody mentions 2x stable? in 2016?