Ovi12's Spain 2-TP FF

[Jaeger]

Spain 2 TP FF
This build is almost identical to the normal Spain FF, but the deviation is that you build 2 TP's instead of one; this grants you the ability to send an additional shipment during transition to fortress, and still have a card ready upon reaching Age 3.

Age 1
Try to micro your vills as efficiently as possible and gather treasures; you will need the resources.
You may want to get an early market/early TP if you have a good crate start (500 resources). I'm really not sure which is better, test it out yourself (one of the options gives you a little more idle time in age 2, I believe is was early TP>early market>15 vill age up, but I forgot). Age with the tower+200g.

In transition, gather 400w and build 2 trading posts. If you have time, try to kill, or at least randomly crackshot, as many treasure guardians as possible for the xp. Quee 2 vills (if you macroed bad, or just want to be a little faster) or 3 (if you macroed well)

Age 2
Have your Home City screen open a few seconds beore reaching Age 2 and spam click the 700g shipment, and then send either 700w/5v or 5v/700w.

Build your outpost in base if neccesary, forward for agression, or near your most vulnerable TP.

Once you are clicked up, put about 5 vills on trees and gather the 700w shipment. Build a market and get steel traps and placer mines. Also build your rax and all the houses you can (for xp).

At this point, with a 1 TP FF you wouldn't have another shipment ready until you reach the fortress age. But with this build you do. You can choose from 600w, 4v, 8 pike/rods, 600g. Personally I usually go for either 600w or military; you can also save the shipment for age 3 if you want.

If you shipped the 600w, you can take all vills off wood for a while and maybe even add a second military building; combined with 1k food later on it can be really good. Don't try to change your macro too much for 1000f, you get a pretty good exchange rate at the market for selling food.

If you want to be more agressive and skip some market upgrades (or just have extra resources), train rods (not musks).

Again, if possible, kill more treasure guardians.

Age 3
You should have a shipment ready or almost ready. Vs colonial, always send 12 pike then 2 falcs. If vs fortress, you can sometimes get away with sending 2 falcs first and then 12 pike. At some point (usually at least after 3 or 4 military shipments), send 1k wood for a second TC if you can.
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What is nice about this build is that it gives you a lot of flexibility. You can be super agressive with 8 pike while still having the 5v eco behind it. Or you can go super boom with 5v 4v, or 600w for a very very strong mass slightly later on.

Matchups:
Basically don't do this vs civs which might rush you like Russia or Otto. I would say this build is the best vs British and French/Germany. Try it out yourself.

@sircallen

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I remember practicing this with you, do you have any suggestions or comments?

[Darwin_]

@ovi12

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Cool build, but why not save one of the shipments until fortress to ensure 2-3 consecutive shipments? Would it be better to just build 1 TP and age faster? Regardless, I think it is a cool build which would have a good mix of eco and aggression in early fortress.

[Jaeger]

@ovi12

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Cool build, but why not save one of the shipments until fortress to ensure 2-3 consecutive shipments? Would it be better to just build 1 TP and age faster? Regardless, I think it is a cool build which would have a good mix of eco and aggression in early fortress.

The normal ff is 1 TP and is 0-30 seconds faster, I would do it at least vs rush civs like Russia.

I never tried saving the shipment because I really like 600w, it throws people off when you have a second military building so early. For ecample people sometimes try to go full goon vs spain (which you can deal with with 1 rax) but you can completely shut it down with 2 raxes.

[pecelot]

@ovi12

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, I think it looks better now!

[Mitoe]

You haven't logged onto ESO since May, Ovi. Why are you still here!

[Hazza54321]

Never listen to guy who doesn't actually play the game

[Jaeger]

You haven't logged onto ESO since May, Ovi. Why are you still here!

But goodspeed hasn't logged on since like 2010!

[Jaeger]

Never listen to guy who doesn't actually play the game

Quite the opposite, my freund. See I am the only one with a different perspective; all the people playing have a bias.

[pecelot]

You haven't logged onto ESO since May, Ovi. Why are you still here!

But goodspeed hasn't logged on since like 2010!

Liar! I saw him online quite recently

[Challenger_Marco]

Atlast a little much idea to Spain 2 tp ff, actually it's wrong to call ovi12 Spain 2 tp ff ,I guess this strat was pretty much found by @Lordimperialist

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on Nilla ,like on 2014 it was found I guess ,he used to do this Spain 2 tp ff with Stagecoach upgrade which was very op and aged at the correct time like around 8 mins dont know how he did it ,there is complex macro I guess I think even this guy named @Micah7

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used to do this as he was trained by lord ,when I asked for rec none of them revealed their strat so that kind of strat it's pretty much mysterious note tp costs 250w on Nilla .@ovi12

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r u Micah7? Probably not I guess, just asking and do u know the strat for Spain 2 tp ff with Stagecoach? I think prob yes u upgrade tp when 700w arrives I guess,when I asked him how ?to micah7 he said build a tp with 700w and chop for upgrade I still dont understand maybe he's saying that for not revealing the strat? Someone comment how to do that build let me give u the idea :
2 Tp ff with Stagecoach +market+ 2 rax and I saw he never sent 600w but he was able to macro and gt the upgrades in market house pop etc someone explain the macro/build behind this please I think I can find it but I dont have time for now.Help!

[Jaeger]

Atlast a little much idea to Spain 2 tp ff, actually it's wrong to call ovi12 Spain 2 tp ff ,I guess this strat was pretty much found by @Lordimperialist

notification

on Nilla ,like on 2014 it was found I guess ,he used to do this Spain 2 tp ff with Stagecoach upgrade which was very op and aged at the correct time like around 8 mins dont know how he did it ,there is complex macro I guess I think even this guy named @Micah7

notification

used to do this as he was trained by lord ,when I asked for rec none of them revealed their strat so that kind of strat it's pretty much mysterious note tp costs 250w on Nilla .@ovi12

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r u Micah7? Probably not I guess, just asking and do u know the strat for Spain 2 tp ff with Stagecoach? I think prob yes u upgrade tp when 700w arrives I guess,when I asked him how ?to micah7 he said build a tp with 700w and chop for upgrade I still dont understand maybe he's saying that for not revealing the strat? Someone comment how to do that build let me give u the idea :
2 Tp ff with Stagecoach +market+ 2 rax and I saw he never sent 600w but he was able to macro and gt the upgrades in market house pop etc someone explain the macro/build behind this please I think I can find it but I dont have time for now.Help!

No I am not micah lol. And I didn't take this build from anyone; I was just thinking one time "wow you have to choose between 8 pike for agressive and 5v for eco, it would be so OP if there was a way to do both".

It sounds like they were building second TP from 700w, which means that they should age way earlier than 8 minutes. Getting stagecoach now is maybe not as good tho since the enemy is almost guaranteed to build a TP himself on TAD. But you can still do it if you want.

[Ghost_Imperator]

Decided to shake this thread up to find out what people think about the viability of double TP FF on current EP with its Spanish Gold meta. Since the key thing that makes a card like SG valuable for Spain is a plenty of shipments that they get in short time, wouldn’t building one extra TP makes your boom (it’s boom, isn’t it? - SG/1000 w) even stronger? Even though, if I understood properly, the main target of doing FF with 2 TPs is to get another shipment in colonial age, why wouldn’t just to save it and as soon as you hit age 3 at the same time in a row send SG and 1000 w? It makes you boom even quicker, stronger and thus less vulnerable. And you still have 2 TPs -> more shipments -> even more of these delightful coins . Yeah you clearly hit age 3 a bit later than using usual FF with 1 TP, but the difference will be only approximately 20-30 seconds that is not that bad thing (or it is?)

[TNT333]

Blasphemies. Piroshiki FF is the true way for believers.

[Squamiger]

What about sending 300w as a second card, in order to get the second tp? Would that not be more efficient than chopping 400w? You get the TP plus a house with the leftover wood. It would eat a shipment, but I think by the time you hit fortress you would still be ahead in the shipment curve than where you would be otherwise with 1 tp. I used to do this sometimes as China, and I made a post about it on ESOC a while back. It's not actually ideal since, as people explained and I later experienced, you lose your second TP so much more easily to any kind of rush, or semi-FF, or early fortress pressure, and now you've spent a shipment for nothing. It can work against slow turtle civs though, or if you have a really protected TP line like on Manchuria, and you definitely do feel the faster shipment progression in fortress.

[Ghost_Imperator]

What about sending 300w as a second card, in order to get the second tp? Would that not be more efficient than chopping 400w? You get the TP plus a house with the leftover wood. It would eat a shipment, but I think by the time you hit fortress you would still be ahead in the shipment curve than where you would be otherwise with 1 tp. I used to do this sometimes as China, and I made a post about it on ESOC a while back. It's not actually ideal since, as people explained and I later experienced, you lose your second TP so much more easily to any kind of rush, or semi-FF, or early fortress pressure, and now you've spent a shipment for nothing. It can work against slow turtle civs though, or if you have a really protected TP line like on Manchuria, and you definitely do feel the faster shipment progression in fortress.

Should have said before that in my opinion this build is only viable if you have a start with 200 w as otherwise shopping 400 w will considerably slow you transition down, and even more than on 20-30 seconds.
What about sending 300 w... Well perhaps it’s a solution, but it seems even a worse wasting of a shipment than sending an additional card in age 2.

[Squamiger]

What about sending 300w as a second card, in order to get the second tp? Would that not be more efficient than chopping 400w? You get the TP plus a house with the leftover wood. It would eat a shipment, but I think by the time you hit fortress you would still be ahead in the shipment curve than where you would be otherwise with 1 tp. I used to do this sometimes as China, and I made a post about it on ESOC a while back. It's not actually ideal since, as people explained and I later experienced, you lose your second TP so much more easily to any kind of rush, or semi-FF, or early fortress pressure, and now you've spent a shipment for nothing. It can work against slow turtle civs though, or if you have a really protected TP line like on Manchuria, and you definitely do feel the faster shipment progression in fortress.

Should have said before that in my opinion this build is only viable if you have a start with 200 w as otherwise shopping 400 w will considerably slow you transition down, and even more than on 20-30 seconds.

Relatively sending 300 w... Well perhaps it’s a solution, but it seems even a worse wasting a shipment than sending additional card in age 2, for instance.

I compared a China FF with 1 tp (with 300w start), vs another build with 300w start, sending 300w as second card, and making a second TP. By about 8 min, I think the shipment curve with 2 TPs was ahead of where it was with 1 TP and saving the 2nd card. It also delayed sending 700g in colonial by about 3 seconds, but I think you could make up for that with a treasure or two. And that's with China; I wonder what it would be like with Spain where you get faster shipments. But I think if you send 300w, the advantage over chopping wood is that you don't delay your age up nearly as much.

Still doesn't seem worth it necessarily unless you're on specific maps, bc like i said you will most likely just lose the 2nd TP to 5 pikes.

[chronique]

I send 300w after 3 vili sometime (when you get big xp tresor and againt some civ). Don't know if its worth it but if your age 3 timing push is not delay why not?