_H2O's Chinese Build

[Durokan]

pisols rape coyote easily i mean pistol not rifle

lol that sounds like it actually could be good, but I think those things are like 7 pop each.

A 5 goon semi ff for china could work well on arizona with the apache natives

[momuuu]

yea probably, but I also could have done the age up way better.

Also correctly played aztec should win that MU everytime no matter what wonder you pick so its kinda not worth discussing that one

So, whenever you feel like you should have gone for skirm age up, you probably shouldn''t have picked China in the first place?

[_H2O]

correct!

[deleted_user0]

There is no point to pick china in a tournament setting if you look at it from a rational perspective. Its just emotional and psychological as well as a practical choice (which doesnt mean its a bad one)

But really any mu china can win, i feel there is atleast 5 civs who can are a safer bet. So ye... Which is also why i was so surprised u played china at all, and especially vs azzy which just feels like a hopeless mu if the other plays right. Which bs did fine till he over committed to kill a village

[[Armag] diarouga]

China is fun, and H2O knows this civ very well.

[Mimsy for President]

This build order requires skill. Not everyone can do that.

[iNcog]

good thread, love it

agree that we need replays though, not necessarily vods since they serve a different purpose, imo. vods are good for working on mechanics and I'd say replays are better if you want strategical analysis

[_H2O]

Agree with that point. I may just do a quick replay vs a bot to show how it works in harassed.

When harassed it's a whole different ball game really. You learn those strategic choices through experience

[zoom]

This deck! I can't...

[janphilippr]

I like the BO but I kind of want to see it in action does anyone have a VOD or replay of this strat being used?

[iNcog]

I think that I've seen el_pistolero do this, as well as optimus prime

check out their vods: http://eso-community.net/page/streamers-list

[Nymphomaniac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5Cl2sb6Zw

_H2O vs Samwise12 china and german mirrors..

[edeholland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5Cl2sb6Zw

_H2O vs Samwise12 china and german mirrors..

Patch?

[[Armag] diarouga]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE5Cl2sb6Zw

_H2O vs Samwise12 china and german mirrors..

Too old, it is outdated.

[Marco1698]

I don't see the mistake to put chu ko no on second age tbh. It's nice to defend from rush

[mGravitus]

Some quick questions on this guide..

1.

Build the Porcelain Tower with one villager in your base

Why 1 vil, instead of 4?


2.

At 90 house pop you can start using the village tech to improve population space if you are not ready to build a house
If you build villages after that you get 25 population each, so it is better to build them instead of researching the upgrade.

This was a bit unclear to me so is this correct?
Village Stats
Village = 20 pop.
6 Village build limit.
4 upgrades (200w). Each upgrade increases village pop space by 5. So at max a village = 40 pop.

Here is the optimum build order (priorotize villages in case of tie as they provide garrision points + drop points+ Refugee Shipment).

Build Order
4 villages. At this point an upgrade = a new village in terms of pop space... so
5 villages. (Villages still providing 20 pop each)
Upgrade Number 1. (Villages now provide 25 pop each)
6 Villages.
Rest of upgrades.


3. Vods of China Tournament play?
Anyone have links? : D
Searching the ESOCTV uTube channel doesnt work so well...

[Durokan]

Some quick questions on this guide..

1.

Build the Porcelain Tower with one villager in your base

Why 1 vil, instead of 4?


2.

At 90 house pop you can start using the village tech to improve population space if you are not ready to build a house
If you build villages after that you get 25 population each, so it is better to build them instead of researching the upgrade.

This was a bit unclear to me so is this correct?
Village Stats
Village = 20 pop.
6 Village build limit.
4 upgrades (200w). Each upgrade increases village pop space by 5. So at max a village = 40 pop.

Here is the optimum build order (priorotize villages in case of tie as they provide garrision points + drop points+ Refugee Shipment).

Build Order
4 villages. At this point an upgrade = a new village in terms of pop space... so
5 villages. (Villages still providing 20 pop each)
Upgrade Number 1. (Villages now provide 25 pop each)
6 Villages.
Rest of upgrades.


3. Vods of China Tournament play?
Anyone have links? : D
Searching the ESOCTV uTube channel doesnt work so well...

Edit: I guess it was mistyped in the guide :/

Sorry for not really being able to answer any questions definitively about this. D:
This isn't my guide to play china; it is _H2O's from a while ago, which I probably edited for grammar. If you flag him down by mentioning him with the "at" symbol, he can probably help you out.

My guess is as good as yours but aging with 4 vills instead of 1 will give you somewhere between 25-30s less time to age 3. (Because you aged that much faster) This may mess with timings of some sort, such as shipments coming in/not having enough resources/shipment progress upon aging, alerting your opponent to your age time earlier than possible, wasting about a minute of time each on those 3 villagers where they could have been gathering something else, etc.

Having never played this build, I would guess that it is a combination of not having a shipment ready and having less resources upon aging than is ideal. It is wasteful to age up 30s faster when you have to wait those 30s anyways for a shipment, especially when those villagers could have been gathering during that 30s time.

2) I will attempt to clarify your second question. It is probably pretty much what you are saying. In the build, when you have four houses, upgrading the four gives the same population as having a total of five houses for the same cost. Because of this, it is acceptable to upgrade your 4 houses IF you are not ready to build the fifth yet. This could be for a number of reasons, but I would guess it is because a fifth house lets you have an extra garrison point, extra shipment location, a better spread of buildings (losing one house in a situation is better when you have 5*20 as opposed to 4*25; you will have 80 instead of 75). It also will give an extra villager (and goat?) if you send the age 3 refugee card while the house upgrade doesn't.

The second part of the statement you question assumes that you have upgraded your four houses instead of building the fifth. On this assumption, you would have 4*25 = 100, so it makes more sense to build the fifth house on your next 200w amount than to upgrade again because you will have 5*25 = 125 instead of 4*30 = 120.

Something to also note that I didn't really say is that anything in italics are my own understanding or extra thoughts I offered to clarify when editing. For instance the quote at the top was taken from some china discussion thread and did not make sense without the italicized context.

[_H2O]

VOD of defending you pmed me.

55:13. https://youtu.be/qPloPmOIkEc

Age3 wonder is built with 4 Vils not one.

The house thing. If you need population quickly the tech comes in way faster than building another one. Once you can get 25 from either building the next house or the tech you do it for sure. At 20 it's a matter of either you need the pop space quickly or you don't.

[deleted_user]

link for lazy: https://youtu.be/qPloPmOIkEc?t=1h8s

[_H2O]

For the record that VOD was a casual smackdown. Certain people were quite salty after g2 and decided to go for the hard counter. I wouldn't expose yourself to that situation in a tournament. Which is why I have the comments about 8ckn or the flying crow wonder. I broke both those "rules" in this VOD. Both are useable if you end up in one of these match ups but honestly at the top level you should probably lose.

[deleted_user0]

Im gong to disagree with you on this for once. 8 ckn or 9 pike are lifesaving cards for china in certain mu's and toghether with the acadamy allow china to (easily) win mus theyd otherwise lose. If you know exactly when to tower and when to acadamy, i think china only loses potentially 1-3 mus with optimal play on both sides.

8 bow/9 pike or 300ex + acadamy age will let you beat india, spain, otto, agressive brit/france, it will hold vs any agressive civ tbh and it allows quick agression ala spain ff vs semi ff civs.

[arcangelusregis]

the strats made by Ryan are viable if u are Ryan . If u can't micro vills like he does and be greedy as him u should always put ckn and pikes in ur deck imo. i've seen him gathering food and gold while having an army under his tc trying to raid, dealing with that only with micro and the summer palace first batch. i just couldn't do like him and i need those shipments even if i know his bo is way better. it's like i'm watching those japanese people who show u how easy Dark Souls is thorough playing all the game on hell mode with the character wearing only underwear and holding a pike .

[britishmusketeer]

Im gong to disagree with you on this for once. 8 ckn or 9 pike are lifesaving cards for china in certain mu's and toghether with the acadamy allow china to (easily) win mus theyd otherwise lose. If you know exactly when to tower and when to acadamy, i think china only loses potentially 1-3 mus with optimal play on both sides.

8 bow/9 pike or 300ex + acadamy age will let you beat india, spain, otto, agressive brit/france, it will hold vs any agressive civ tbh and it allows quick agression ala spain ff vs semi ff civs.

yea especially if you age 1 tp, you can send the extra millitary shipment without sacrificing 700w.

[fei123456]

Im gong to disagree with you on this for once. 8 ckn or 9 pike are lifesaving cards for china in certain mu's and toghether with the acadamy allow china to (easily) win mus theyd otherwise lose. If you know exactly when to tower and when to acadamy, i think china only loses potentially 1-3 mus with optimal play on both sides.

8 bow/9 pike or 300ex + acadamy age will let you beat india, spain, otto, agressive brit/france, it will hold vs any agressive civ tbh and it allows quick agression ala spain ff vs semi ff civs.

agree. also, china doesnt need 10 industrial shipments at all. without 8bow 9pike and 8 arquebusier you just CAN'T beat some rush.
however i didnt' get your point about "spain". should china send 8bow 9pike to deal with spain ff?

[n0el]

I think at some points it's about the zuta more stuff principle. So if you can time you 8 bow or more like 9 pike + skirms from academy + mm you can break almost anything.

I like 9 against Spain piro style as well to kill his forward tower.