Dutch vs French

[_DB_]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cSd61gp.jpg[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/njxeumt.jpg[/img]

How to exactly play in this MU as Dutch?

[Jaeger]

99% of games ship 3v>bank wagon>700w
Make a bank in transition to colonial. From the 400w make a stable and 2 houses, and try to get out 5 huss (can be hard, usually after you finish bank put 8 vills on gold and rest on food+new vills to food for 5 huss batch). If you're getting rushed you should be fine vs the first wave with 5 huss and minutemen, and for second wave build a rax from 700w and make some skirms and ship 8 pike if you need to. The BO stops after that, do whatever you need to but usually if you see a opportunity to age up, always take it. If you're not getting rushed and the enemy is going for fortress, add 1-2 more banks from 700w, make more huss if you want, ship 600w and age up either with 700g, 700f, or by just collecting up the resources, all depending on how much of a hurry you are. When you are in fortress, if you are not pressured ship 1k wood and get a lot of market upgrades, maybe a TP, maybe another bank.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Why would you cav vs a musk/huss?
On nilla people do 700w/8pikes/600w and do a 5/10skirm+8pike semi.
The dutch can probably wait 700w to make pikes and send bank/700w/600w, idk

[Jaeger]

Why would you cav vs a musk/huss?
On nilla people do 700w/8pikes/600w and do a 5/10skirm+8pike semi.
The dutch can probably wait 700w to make pikes and send bank/700w/600w, idk

Cause what if he does huss semi ff and then you just get raided if u have 5 skirms or just have useless pikes if u make 5 pikes? Also, imo skirm pike cav is better than skirm pike vs musk huss

[momuuu]

Why would you cav vs a musk/huss?
On nilla people do 700w/8pikes/600w and do a 5/10skirm+8pike semi.
The dutch can probably wait 700w to make pikes and send bank/700w/600w, idk

Cause what if he does huss semi ff and then you just get raided if u have 5 skirms or just have useless pikes if u make 5 pikes? Also, imo skirm pike cav is better than skirm pike vs musk huss

I think itd be possible to see a huss semi coming with that build, because you delay your first military building untill after the third bank. Then you can just huss semi aswell, and if you want to send 8 pikes to pressure him.

[Jaeger]

Cause what if he does huss semi ff and then you just get raided if u have 5 skirms or just have useless pikes if u make 5 pikes? Also, imo skirm pike cav is better than skirm pike vs musk huss

I think itd be possible to see a huss semi coming with that build, because you delay your first military building untill after the third bank. Then you can just huss semi aswell, and if you want to send 8 pikes to pressure him.

If he musk huss and u wait until 700w to make military youre in a lot of trouble, if you scut musk huss and make military from 400w then you just have idle 700w and will be a lot harder to get out a 5 huss batch witouth a bank wagon, and wont get the xp from bank wagon building.

[[Armag] diarouga]

You train 10 skirm with your rax, if he pushes with cav send mm and then make pikes with 700w.

[momuuu]

700 wood quick 3 bank boom, into 8 pikes + 5 skirm can easily hold off the initial musk huss pressure. If you're really afraid you can build a wall segment with a gate in it and just pop your skirms to that, avoiding the hussars. The follow up push with 8 xbows is tougher, but itll hit late enough to let you age and hopefully win with skirm ruyters (or blackriders if you are stuck in TC and can't gather food).

I think french would rather age up after pressuring you a bit. Then they can hurt you quite a bit with a quick 2 falc shipment.

[Jaeger]

700 wood quick 3 bank boom, into 8 pikes + 5 skirm can easily hold off the initial musk huss pressure. If you''re really afraid you can build a wall segment with a gate in it and just pop your skirms to that, avoiding the hussars. The follow up push with 8 xbows is tougher, but itll hit late enough to let you age and hopefully win with skirm ruyters (or blackriders if you are stuck in TC and can''t gather food).

I think french would rather age up after pressuring you a bit. Then they can hurt you quite a bit with a quick 2 falc shipment.

Exactly, French would rather ageup after pressuring you a bit, and and you do rax that late you have to send 8 pike, if you just start stable you get to raid AND hold the first push, and if you''re getting bow pike rushed I''m almost sure you can''t hold it with a rax from 700w.

[WickedCossack]

Either 3 or 4 bank semi FF with hussars. (3 banks is bankwagon then 700w, 4 banks is 700w then bankwagon.)

I think any kind of early rax build puts you too far behind.

[momuuu]

I dont really think huss semi could work though, Dutch semi is probably too slow to hold musk huss push. So that means you probably need to make skirm after that, and I dont really see a way to age then. That's why I prefer to skirm pike I guess. You're not that far behind awhen you hit age 3 I think, especially if your defense is good and you make an appropriate amount of skirms. Not that far behind is pretty good for playing Dutch.

Also on the xbow pike, if I recall its possible to scout it in time. Even if your 700w is like 30% done, you can still cancel it and ship bank wagon. And even if you ship 700 wood, you can just not get 3 banks before military building and probably still hold. If france goes xbow pike (which is rare) you're pretty happy anyways.

[benj89]

yeah vs musk huss skirm pike semi is better
can't win vs musk huss as huss semi it's impossible (when I'm musk huss and I see dutch go huss semi I pretty much know it's won unless he outplays me/multitask better). semi huss only possible if the french semi huss to
and i've always hold xb pike on nilla with 700w rax (you age faster tho), totally possible if you have herds/make appropriate walls

[WickedCossack]

There's only one rule I follow in my life and you should in yours.

OPEN HUSSAR OR DIE TRYING. :7upspot:

All non-believers can burn in hell for all I care.

[Jaeger]

There''s only one rule I follow in my life and you should in yours.

OPEN HUSSAR OR DIE TRYING. :7upspot:

All non-believers can burn in hell for all I care.

+1

[momuuu]

yeah vs musk huss skirm pike semi is better
can''t win vs musk huss as huss semi it''s impossible (when I''m musk huss and I see dutch go huss semi I pretty much know it''s won unless he outplays me/multitask better). semi huss only possible if the french semi huss to
and i''ve always hold xb pike on nilla with 700w rax (you age faster tho), totally possible if you have herds/make appropriate walls

Yeah I''m with you there. With other civs, maybe you can defend a musk huss timing with a huss semi, but the Dutch variant is pretty slow. And I dont even think a french huss semi for example beats musk huss.

[bart331]

Defensive skirm pike is good, skirms autoupgrade so it transitions nicely into age3 play

[[Armag] diarouga]

I don't send 8 pikes when I semi, I make pikes with my wood.

[_venox_]

I don''t send 8 pikes when I semi, I make pikes with my wood.

you''re morning wood I suppose