Beating Ottomans with Russia

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Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by milku3459 »

Lately I've been using a lot of Russia (and the red alert 3 soundtrack to go with it). The last time I played, I got 4 Ottomans in a row and beat them all by rushing so hard it caught their first batch alone or before it even came out. Is this a typical way to play or were they just terrible terrible lamers? I did the Richard Timing Push on the strat wall, 14 vills age up, yadah yadah. Is it a good idea to count on being able to be fast to beat Ottomans? I don't want to let him get Abus out.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

as a nilla scrub i think we are all just too low on skill so this works, plain russia rush is quite bad on higher levels but on average-nilla-ness ppl just dont know how to defend that. otto can age up almost one minute earlier than russia on nilla and im sure its easy to defend the first rush if expected. especially with OP jan/abus and an extra shipment to send due to otto TP in age 1.

quick edit: im ready anytime to try it out a cpl of times with me otto you russia, just to see if i am actually right or this^ is just bollocks.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by momuuu »

I feel like that kind of strat would struggle a fair bit against a well executed otto FF, but it seems like a decent way to go about the match up.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Is this on EP or on RE? Nevertheless, I think that you should go 5-4-700w or 5-4-13 as your build order, with 400w age up. You could do 300w first and 500f age up, but I would recommend doing 5-700w-4 in that case. Your first batch of units should be musks, but strels from then on unless he starts to mix cav. Generally, you will have the compositional advantage, but you will struggle with speed and mass. Use that composition to your advantage, and micro well. Ottoman are very inflexible when it comes to composition, so all they will most likely be doing is jan/abus which is rekt by strel/coss.

However, if they age, it is pretty much game over. You can outmass him and might be able to win, but you would have to go for the full strel-coss-musk composition.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

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Post by P i k i l i c »

Sure, Suvorov used to beat Ottomans in the XVIIIth century, but it doesn't mean the card "Suvorov reforms" should be sent :hmm:
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:Is this on EP or on RE? Nevertheless, I think that you should go 5-4-700w or 5-4-13 as your build order, with 400w age up. You could do 300w first and 500f age up, but I would recommend doing 5-700w-4 in that case. Your first batch of units should be musks, but strels from then on unless he starts to mix cav. Generally, you will have the compositional advantage, but you will struggle with speed and mass. Use that composition to your advantage, and micro well. Ottoman are very inflexible when it comes to composition, so all they will most likely be doing is jan/abus which is rekt by strel/coss.

So then why exactly are you suggesting musketeers as the first batch?
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

Darwin_ wrote:Is this on EP or on RE?


its nilla.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by tedere12 »

The mu is very difficult because you cant scout if he rushes or does FF. If you fb vs otto and he stays age 2 you will most likely lose, else you might win. If he does FF and you stay back, you wont be able to do enough damage. You definitely can not age in this MU. I always do 5 cossack 700 wood 700 gold. 5 cossack is very good because no matter what he is doing, he can not catch the raiding cossacks (otto dont make hussars early on, at least its not a standard thing to do) and this will slow his build. Also you will most likely have the cossacks available for the fight later on. with 700 wood I like doing 2 blockhouse and stable to make my base harder to break through
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by deleted_user0 »

In land maps just do strelet+coss. If u do musks u r a fucking knub
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by momuuu »

Theyre especially unnecessary on nilla where strelets do quite a bit better against hussars.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Jerom wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Is this on EP or on RE? Nevertheless, I think that you should go 5-4-700w or 5-4-13 as your build order, with 400w age up. You could do 300w first and 500f age up, but I would recommend doing 5-700w-4 in that case. Your first batch of units should be musks, but strels from then on unless he starts to mix cav. Generally, you will have the compositional advantage, but you will struggle with speed and mass. Use that composition to your advantage, and micro well. Ottoman are very inflexible when it comes to composition, so all they will most likely be doing is jan/abus which is rekt by strel/coss.

So then why exactly are you suggesting musketeers as the first batch?

Just in case otto ships 3 huss first or does jan/huss for some reason. They are just more flexible also.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Is this on EP or on RE?


its nilla.

Oh then skip the musks and just do strel/coss. I think I used to do 300w-5-4-13-700w on nilla which was pretty strong, and seems good against otto.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by momuuu »

Darwin_ wrote:
Jerom wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Is this on EP or on RE? Nevertheless, I think that you should go 5-4-700w or 5-4-13 as your build order, with 400w age up. You could do 300w first and 500f age up, but I would recommend doing 5-700w-4 in that case. Your first batch of units should be musks, but strels from then on unless he starts to mix cav. Generally, you will have the compositional advantage, but you will struggle with speed and mass. Use that composition to your advantage, and micro well. Ottoman are very inflexible when it comes to composition, so all they will most likely be doing is jan/abus which is rekt by strel/coss.

So then why exactly are you suggesting musketeers as the first batch?

Just in case otto ships 3 huss first or does jan/huss for some reason. They are just more flexible also.

If they ship 3 huss first youre winning and arent you shipping 5 cossack plus dont you have a blockhouse to fall back on? Musks are just a dumb choice.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Jerom wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Just in case otto ships 3 huss first or does jan/huss for some reason. They are just more flexible also.

If they ship 3 huss first youre winning and arent you shipping 5 cossack plus dont you have a blockhouse to fall back on? Musks are just a dumb choice.

Yeah maybe idk. They just seemed much safer to me and arent too bad in general use anyway. Ur probably right tho.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by fei123456 »

if ottoman age with tower, gg.
if he goes 400w, strelet cossack may work.
on big maps, sff and go manchu directly or suvorov are also possible.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Laurence Drake »

ottomans beating russia is ahistorical tbh, just putting that out there
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by milku3459 »

Laurence Drake wrote:ottomans beating russia is ahistorical tbh, just putting that out there


Portuguese died long time ago and their explorer could not maphack
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by bugattivitesse »

AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE wrote:
quick edit: im ready anytime to try it out a cpl of times with me otto you russia, just to see if i am actually right or this^ is just bollocks.


Add me on nilla or tad ill be down to try this out.
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Laurence Drake »

milku3459 wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:ottomans beating russia is ahistorical tbh, just putting that out there


Portuguese died long time ago and their explorer could not maphack

no
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by lemmings121 »

Fyi. Tc + Tower will one shot a russian musk, you can go naked ff against a musk rush.
(Tad, i dont play nilla since 2006 lol)
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Rikikipu »

This video shows how hard this MU is for russia.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAc851E6l68[/video]
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by milku3459 »

*criticises Otto FF for not needed micro or creativity*
*still plays ottos*
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by EAGLEMUT »

@Rikikipu You don't even know how much I wish to reply with a video where I won this mu vs you xD Of course, I forgot to record it.
Is the mu actually good for Russia on EP?
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by Rikikipu »

EAGLEMUT wrote:@Rikikipu You don't even know how much I wish to reply with a video where I won this mu vs you xD Of course, I forgot to record it.
Is the mu actually good for Russia on EP?

Yeah trust me or not my otto is worst now than when I were 1st lieut xD
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Re: Beating Ottomans with Russia

Post by deleted_user0 »

Rikikipu wrote:This video shows how hard this MU is for russia.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAc851E6l68[/video]


well mike didnt play that very good. he couldve sieged down middle tp for example. its one of the reasons this mu isnt as straight forward as it seems, since otto can't actually win a fb war vs russia. if they rush with 5 jans 3 huss they run out of steam before russia does, and if they defend, they cant really keep tp's on most maps. thats why they ff usually, which works best on maps that actually have medium res, so you have enough res in base to ff and make some jans to defend cannons, but not that much res that russia can camp in base forever or even age up safely too. so GP is actually the perfect map for otto in this mu. while a map such as arizona, where the tp's are in the middle, actually make it harder for otto to win. even though he can take all tps instead of just 2/3rd

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