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United States of America CurassierAndCurassier
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09 Jan 2017, 23:44

I've just never been able to beat Japan as my favored civ. I think I have one rated win against them (playing as Russia) vs seven or eight losses. I've done the Samwise build, Semi FF, and an all-in vill rush. Of those, I did best with the vill rush, losing mainly because I got cocky and neglected to look for villagers that escaped.

It just doesn't seem like France can apply enough early pressure on Japan to counter their boom.
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Netherlands Jerom
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09 Jan 2017, 23:48

You can try xbow pike. Huss semi ff is probably better but it requires a lot of skill to be used so that it beats japan. Xbow pike is much easier and much harder for the japan player to beat.

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United States of America CurassierAndCurassier
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10 Jan 2017, 00:01

I feel like then I'd be better off using my second best civ, Brits, if xbow pike is better. But I can try it as France. What would that BO look like? 3 CdB -> 700w -> 8 xbow?
Greece tedere12
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10 Jan 2017, 00:05

3 cdb 700wood 600wood (make only 10 pikes) 700gold 3 hussar/8 bows, and then u do a very powerful xbow/pike/hus timing i think ive seen many players do that
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United States of America SirCallen
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10 Jan 2017, 00:15

To add to what Tedere said, hide the huss and bait his yumi deathball out. You can't actually push into his yumi mass in his base with the building placement/potential walls so a nice catch can be game winning otherwise france age 2 doesn't quite add up to Japan's. I would personally ship 4 cdb first, 700w/600w seems awfully all in. I had a nice game where I xbow/pike/huss Jap but can't find it and don't remember my exact card order but it was very effective.

Alternatively I think a 10 pike semi ff can work too. Use your native scout and explorer to scout if he sends units to each group of five pikes so you can react appropriately. 4 cdb, 700w, 700c. Normal french stuff, amalgamation to age 3. I like 1k wood first. Control shrines on map, keep them off your side, take tp line (note: don't build tc). I think this is supposed to work but I keep losing with it vs duck, though I would argue it has situated me in a lead multiple times. I'm curious what better players' thoughts are on this.
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United States of America SirCallen
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10 Jan 2017, 00:24

CurassierAndCurassier wrote:I feel like then I'd be better off using my second best civ, Brits, if xbow pike is better. But I can try it as France. What would that BO look like? 3 CdB -> 700w -> 8 xbow?


Brits hard counter Jap IMO. 700w, 600w, 700g, 5v? is my favorite build order. Make 10 pike with fb rax and siege shrines, add 2nd rax with 700w and double produce lbows. The timing works out that you'll have 10 lbow + 10 pike when he is just getting out ashi/yumi to defend his shrines. Add stable before 700g hits and add huss. It's quite strong but the macro requires some practice.
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United States of America CurassierAndCurassier
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10 Jan 2017, 00:43

sircallen wrote:
CurassierAndCurassier wrote:I feel like then I'd be better off using my second best civ, Brits, if xbow pike is better. But I can try it as France. What would that BO look like? 3 CdB -> 700w -> 8 xbow?


Brits hard counter Jap IMO. 700w, 600w, 700g, 5v? is my favorite build order. Make 10 pike with fb rax and siege shrines, add 2nd rax with 700w and double produce lbows. The timing works out that you'll have 10 lbow + 10 pike when he is just getting out ashi/yumi to defend his shrines. Add stable before 700g hits and add huss. It's quite strong but the macro requires some practice.


I can practice that build as well. It's not too different from my favored way to play Brits.

No 3 vill or VC?
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10 Jan 2017, 00:49

3v, but u can vc too (i think it is better with vc but not gonna make a statement because im low lvl)
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10 Jan 2017, 01:04

3v preferable probably but I'm never going to say early TP 3v --> VC is inherently bad either.
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10 Jan 2017, 01:27

on stagecoach map, go tpboom semiff.
otherwise, start xbow pike, but you'll need to change to huss xbow musk later.
vs 300w start, go double rax musk, then add hussar.
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10 Jan 2017, 16:34

Huss semi sucks vs japan, better 10pike 5 bow semi if youre gonna semi
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10 Jan 2017, 16:45

Couprider wrote:on stagecoach map, go tpboom semiff.
otherwise, start xbow pike, but you'll need to change to huss xbow musk later.
vs 300w start, go double rax musk, then add hussar.

Is GP a stagecoach map?
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10 Jan 2017, 17:02

sdsanft wrote:
Couprider wrote:on stagecoach map, go tpboom semiff.
otherwise, start xbow pike, but you'll need to change to huss xbow musk later.
vs 300w start, go double rax musk, then add hussar.

Is GP a stagecoach map?

I would go xbow rush on this map.
Great plains is japan's map indeed. Tons of bisons faraway make it availble to spam 200 pop easily, while hard for opponent to siege.
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10 Jan 2017, 17:16

Couprider wrote:
sdsanft wrote:
Couprider wrote:on stagecoach map, go tpboom semiff.
otherwise, start xbow pike, but you'll need to change to huss xbow musk later.
vs 300w start, go double rax musk, then add hussar.

Is GP a stagecoach map?

I would go xbow rush on this map.
Great plains is japan's map indeed. Tons of bisons faraway make it availble to spam 200 pop easily, while hard for opponent to siege.

Idk if this is great japan map. If it is 200wd start mid tp is OP on gp and (assuming you get good hunts and not map screwed) you often a lot of hunts which is good for you also. Walling is more annoying on greatplains also, although you dont have to full wall for it to be effective
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10 Jan 2017, 17:28

farran34 wrote:
Couprider wrote:
Show hidden quotes

I would go xbow rush on this map.
Great plains is japan's map indeed. Tons of bisons faraway make it availble to spam 200 pop easily, while hard for opponent to siege.

Idk if this is great japan map. If it is 200wd start mid tp is OP on gp and (assuming you get good hunts and not map screwed) you often a lot of hunts which is good for you also. Walling is more annoying on greatplains also, although you dont have to full wall for it to be effective

gp is the second best map after siberia for jp imo
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11 Jan 2017, 14:10

lordraphael wrote:
farran34 wrote:
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Idk if this is great japan map. If it is 200wd start mid tp is OP on gp and (assuming you get good hunts and not map screwed) you often a lot of hunts which is good for you also. Walling is more annoying on greatplains also, although you dont have to full wall for it to be effective

gp is the second best map after siberia for jp imo

whys that?
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11 Jan 2017, 15:05

xbow/pike or stagecoach semi-ff.

Bo for xbow/pike: standard starts, except go market with 200w. Age with 13/14 vills and 400w. Get gang saw and res for steel traps in transition. Move 2 cdb's forward and place two raxes right when you age and ship 700w, queue 10 xbows and st. 600w next then either 8 bows or 4 cdb's. Go xbows first batch, pikes 2nd batch, then alternate batches or train whatever you need. Just try to kill vills and deny them building military buildings with the first 10 bows.

Stagecoach semi-ff: standard starts. Age with 14 vills and 400w, build a tp, get placer mines, and gather for steel traps. Get stagecoach with the 400w as well as an in-base rax. 700w next for more tp's, houses, and pikes. Siege shrines close to your base with the pikes. Set tp's to wood. 4 cdbs, then 700c and age up. Queue skirms and cuirs when you age up, and ship 8 skirms first, then cannons or 5 goons then cannons.
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11 Jan 2017, 16:31

lordraphael wrote:
farran34 wrote:
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Idk if this is great japan map. If it is 200wd start mid tp is OP on gp and (assuming you get good hunts and not map screwed) you often a lot of hunts which is good for you also. Walling is more annoying on greatplains also, although you dont have to full wall for it to be effective

gp is the second best map after siberia for jp imo

Maybe you are right but I would much rather take a map like himalayas in a matchup vs france where he has only a few hunts and I can still shrine effectively. What specifically makes great plains a good map for japan, just the amount of shrinable hunts?
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12 Jan 2017, 00:11

An option is to start church with spies and go for a 15-musk semi, then add more in transition and send cannons to put good pressure on your opponent. Japan can't really deal with mass cannons that efficiently so you might as well go for 1000w/1000c, lately I got 6 falcs in total from that pretty quickly, which is quite a force. Of course then make some goons to counter nagi, skirms vs yabusame, musk/cuirs for meatshield and a culv vs flaming arrows.
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12 Jan 2017, 00:50

That kinda troll but probably not that bad.
Hazza54321 wrote:Holy fuck an autobiography
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12 Jan 2017, 00:57

farran34 wrote:
lordraphael wrote:
Show hidden quotes

gp is the second best map after siberia for jp imo

Maybe you are right but I would much rather take a map like himalayas in a matchup vs france where he has only a few hunts and I can still shrine effectively. What specifically makes great plains a good map for japan, just the amount of shrinable hunts?

lots of bisons who have a higher shrine gather rate than 400 food animals afaik. 2 cherry orchards and a 3 tp route where one tp is inbase which makes stagechoach play rather ineffective. The only downside is the relatively short rush distance.
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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12 Jan 2017, 03:20

lordraphael wrote:
farran34 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Maybe you are right but I would much rather take a map like himalayas in a matchup vs france where he has only a few hunts and I can still shrine effectively. What specifically makes great plains a good map for japan, just the amount of shrinable hunts?

lots of bisons who have a higher shrine gather rate than 400 food animals afaik. 2 cherry orchards and a 3 tp route where one tp is inbase which makes stagechoach play rather ineffective. The only downside is the relatively short rush distance.
the only thing about great plains is that because of the tp route jap sometimes have to place cherries in fron of their base, which is very very bad
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Tonga sdsanft
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12 Jan 2017, 03:23

Lol please stop quoting. 8 is too much
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12 Jan 2017, 07:00

pecelot wrote:An option is to start church with spies and go for a 15-musk semi, then add more in transition and send cannons to put good pressure on your opponent. Japan can't really deal with mass cannons that efficiently so you might as well go for 1000w/1000c, lately I got 6 falcs in total from that pretty quickly, which is quite a force. Of course then make some goons to counter nagi, skirms vs yabusame, musk/cuirs for meatshield and a culv vs flaming arrows.


mass yabasume?
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12 Jan 2017, 08:41

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
pecelot wrote:An option is to start church with spies and go for a 15-musk semi, then add more in transition and send cannons to put good pressure on your opponent. Japan can't really deal with mass cannons that efficiently so you might as well go for 1000w/1000c, lately I got 6 falcs in total from that pretty quickly, which is quite a force. Of course then make some goons to counter nagi, skirms vs yabusame, musk/cuirs for meatshield and a culv vs flaming arrows.


mass yabasume?

train flaming arrows should be better imo.
2 falconet>2 flaming arrow, but 4 falconet<5 flaming arrow. flaming arrows has 2 more range, better LOS, better move speed, can show some hit and run.
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