japan gold crate start: is it possible?

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japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by fei123456 »

As we know, if japan has a gold start and still goes port consulate, this will be a very slow upgrade. So I build a market, collect 50 gold (Usually you can pick up some beavers for free), build a market, buy 100w. So you have 200w 25g now, build a shrine and go 5% berry boost.

If i can collect 100 gold from treasures, or in some MUs that I don't need to age up very fast, i will also research the 50f50w50g upgrade too, and spend all those resources (100w200g=200w75g=125w shrine+25w25g+50f50w50g). So you'll have two market upgrades before you click age up, and can have the 40f 5% wood upgrade right after you start building the wonder.

You can still send kami, and 94w shrine is good too. And 300w or 3 boat are also available. With 3-4 vills on wonder you can always reach age 2 before 4:30. Though you won't have many shrines, you can have your 1st colonial shipment 1 min earlier, which means a more versatile start.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by gibson »

Just chop for Port cons vs a slower civ and do normal kami or do 2 vil jap cons in transition vs fast civs imo
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by macacoalbino »

idk if the market boost compensates the food+wood you save from port consulate...
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by tedere12 »

someone has to do the maths
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by KINGofOsmane »

i tested some stuff similar to that
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Hazza54321 wrote:I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups

from the insane 5%
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Hazza54321 »

KINGofOsmane wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups

from the insane 5%

kami better without cons? lol
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Hazza54321 wrote:
KINGofOsmane wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups

from the insane 5%

kami better without cons? lol

you should get ports anyway
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Hazza54321 »

KINGofOsmane wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups

from the insane 5%

well if you started market you more likely to get the other techs earlier anyway, 2v also allows you to age up quicker and have more res in transition allowing you to adapt much more easily
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Dsy »

Its possible, but not good strat.
3 boats is a good alternative to kami.
And yeah even 2 vills is better than 5% market up.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by yemshi »

Should you do full market start you age at 5:20 so put 3v on the wonder.
You only need 5v on food then as well (overgather like 40f before switching to wood and you can maintain constant production)
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Hazza54321 »

yemshi wrote:Should you do full market start you age at 5:20 so put 3v on the wonder.
You only need 5v on food then as well (overgather like 40f before switching to wood and you can maintain constant production)

why you age at 5:20?
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by yemshi »

You have 100c and 200w. For full market and a shrine you need 100w+25w+50w+125w; the coin is already there. So you either trade a lot or gather a lot. 800f also but we want jap cons anyway.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Hazza54321 »

yemshi wrote:You have 100c and 200w. For full market and a shrine you need 100w+25w+50w+125w; the coin is already there. So you either trade a lot or gather a lot. 800f also but we want jap cons anyway.

but the 2vills and the food up and coin treasures compensate for that
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by KINGofOsmane »

Hazza54321 wrote:
KINGofOsmane wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:I think it could be a nice alternative but ship 2v as they benefit from the market ups

from the insane 5%

well if you started market you more likely to get the other techs earlier anyway, 2v also allows you to age up quicker and have more res in transition allowing you to adapt much more easily

nuuu
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by princeofkabul »

don't do early market as japan kids.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by momuuu »

I honestly kinda secretly like early market + 2 vills in a wide range of match ups. You win if it gets lategame anyways.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by _H2O »

All these ideas sound good until you remember that randomly port makes the age up cost 120 food less. Then you never are faster without it.

Chop 107 wood get 120 food back instantly. That makes the chop way less than it feels like it is. The slow build time of the consulate and the shrine getting up later also factor in a little im sure.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by yemshi »

If you get ports you can't really ally with japs. That's why you build a market.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah I'll never get this... Why pay for a full age up when you can pay 120f less, and benefit directly from port consulate for all your buildings ? I don't think I'd ever skip port consulate in age 1.
About market, it mostly depends on the treasures (so basically, depends on the map mostly). Let's say you're on gp and you have 50g in beavers (happens most games), then you can build a market without gathering any extra coin/wood (you will have enough coin to buy 100w), and you also have the gold for the food upgrade. So you just need to chop 25w, and you will have to gather after this, say, 1k food or so at least (680f + the vils you train), so the 5% gathering rate will be approx a 50f bonus, so you don't age up later. So why not ?
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by n0el »

Build a TP and 11/10
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by gibson »

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah I'll never get this... Why pay for a full age up when you can pay 120f less, and benefit directly from port consulate for all your buildings ? I don't think I'd ever skip port consulate in age 1.
About market, it mostly depends on the treasures (so basically, depends on the map mostly). Let's say you're on gp and you have 50g in beavers (happens most games), then you can build a market without gathering any extra coin/wood (you will have enough coin to buy 100w), and you also have the gold for the food upgrade. So you just need to chop 25w, and you will have to gather after this, say, 1k food or so at least (680f + the vils you train), so the 5% gathering rate will be approx a 50f bonus, so you don't age up later. So why not ?
port cons into kami on a 200w start vs an aggressive civ like Russia, Aztec, Iro otto etc is basically the same as just resigning cause you're just gonna be doing it in 5 minutes anyway when 40 units are circles seizing your tc
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Kaiserklein »

107w is only 143 food, because japan gathers on berries, which has a slower gather rate (0.67 food/sec instead of 0.84 for hunts). So you're telling me skipping the consulate, in order to not gather 107 wood, at the cost of not getting a 120f discount, is worth ? You just save 23 food for your age up... Ok you build your shrine earlier, and you don't have to put a vil on the consulate, so you maybe save like another 50f, but all this still just means you age like 5 sec faster or so, which doesn't really matter.
On the other hand, it delays your shrining (because you still have to build your onsulate), and you had to pay full price for your first shrine. I really see no reason at all to ever skip the port consulate.
About kami idk, maybe sometimes it's better to ship 3 boats instead.
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Re: japan gold crate start: is it possible?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Building shrines and port cons vs a civ that has 40units under tc before it pays off is a really smart idea, only if 300w start i would go port cons

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