Options: Japan vs Russia

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Serbia sirmusket
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by sirmusket »

sebnan12 wrote:
sirmusket wrote:
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since when is saying my opinion in this thread being arrogant, I guess i won't even try to respond to this seeing as you are just someone who clearly hates me from day 1, but its fine your clearly living a great life going out of your way to say this :D, and secondly its pretty fucking clear your using an alt account for eso because you wouldn't say this shit on your main but w.e
hes clearly using an alt and probably sucks ye.. but dont start a post with "i guess i wont even try to respond" and call him a (in sarcasm way) nolife after that.. it just helps him to proof his thread!

ty, and yeah :P, its probs thebritish or something XD
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by gibson »

sirmusket wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:
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hes clearly using an alt and probably sucks ye.. but dont start a post with "i guess i wont even try to respond" and call him a (in sarcasm way) nolife after that.. it just helps him to proof his thread!

ty, and yeah :P, its probs thebritish or something XD
it was me
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by noissance »

Do no vill rushes work with Japan? (Aging with 10 villa)
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by KINGofOsmane »

noissance wrote:Do no vill rushes work with Japan? (Aging with 10 villa)

nope
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by _GetMoneyBitches »

send mm asap during the game to idle the Japanese vills as long as you can
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Pillakillee »

One build ive tried and won ( majority of the time ) is this card order ,
1- Heavenly Kami
2- 5 Musks with training yumis .
3- 600 W ( spam widespread shrines )
4- Depends upon situation , i usually send 600 G for age up or units .

Tips:-
1- Place your buildings as walls
2- Make walls on choke point
3- get that 150 food vill hp from market
4- Make shrines when possible.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by fei123456 »

gibson wrote:It's not really winnable on a standard map if the Russian player scouts. If the jap player goes for an all in build Russia just does a boomier build and jap can never break a bh fb and Russia wins mid or late game. If jap does a boom build Russia just rushes and wins early.

nope. if japan do military start, russia SHOULDN'T fb.
and full wall+gate+yumi are unbroken.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Goodspeed »

Far as I know Russia shouldn't lose to aggressive starts. Might have a chance if they fb but really they have no reason to build forward in the first place. After all they want to be able to siege shrines all over the map without losing their BH.
Japan just loses mid to late colo because they can't keep up a decent shrine pop and boyars is insane.
Russia favoured for sure. Yumi behind walls with cm if necessary and try to sneak an age up is how I would play it as Jap.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by gibson »

Couprider wrote:
gibson wrote:It's not really winnable on a standard map if the Russian player scouts. If the jap player goes for an all in build Russia just does a boomier build and jap can never break a bh fb and Russia wins mid or late game. If jap does a boom build Russia just rushes and wins early.

nope. if japan do military start, russia SHOULDN'T fb.
and full wall+gate+yumi are unbroken.
that's not an option cause you do your bh before you know what the jap player is gonna do.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by fei123456 »

gibson wrote:that's not an option cause you do your bh before you know what the jap player is gonna do.

why? if he doesn't start consulate, you shouldn't build fb. or you'll 120% lose it.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

I personally do not do port consulate and kami in this matchup, but I still age with toshogu. I normally do 300w or 2v first, sometimes kami if i'm on a map with a lot of hunts, build consulate + 2/3 shrines in transition + stable when I age. 300 export first, ally with japanese and immediately put 10 clubs in queue and the military rickshaw, or 2 more clubs if you really want to break the bh. Also put nagi's in queue (I am always able to get at least 4), then ship 5 yumi.

You can normally push with the 10-13 clubs, around 7-9 nagi and 5 yumi (minute men as well if you want). This is, at least from my experience, plenty to kill the blockhouse, and the economic follow up is very good. Once the military rickshaw comes, you can either do yumi/nagi or ashi/nagi, both are equally good in the right situations (i.e if they do 5-700w-700c with stable, ashi are probably better, while 5-4-something yumi are the better choice)

I have also tried doing standard port consulate start, but with 300w or 2v, and doing my standard build, but training the bows instead of the clubs. I did 5 ashi 2nd instead of yumi and it seemed pretty good, though I couldn't fully push out into the blockhouse until I could lay down a rax and get some more ashi. The extra export also allowed me to get the 3 boats on the follow-up which was pretty nice. However, I still like japan consulate more because clubs are what you need to break the blockhouse and the extra 5% attack is huge.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by gibson »

Couprider wrote:
gibson wrote:that's not an option cause you do your bh before you know what the jap player is gonna do.

why? if he doesn't start consulate, you shouldn't build fb. or you'll 120% lose it.
just cause he goes port cons doesn't mean that he's not gonna switch to jap in transition or not play aggressive.....
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

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Post by Garja »

It's one of those MUs that comes down to age1 and thus age up time, etc. but I'd say in about 70% of cases (rather standard conditions) Russia has an advantage.
I dont think Russia should lose to aggro Jap play even with a fb. That is atleast if Russia player adapts correctly. Maybe with big treasures and the monk card + Tori gate Jap can win this agressively but again it is situational and comes down to age1 outcome. In general I dont see Jap winning this by mirroring Russia play style when the latter just has better assets for that kind of play.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by deleted_user0 »

Couprider wrote:
gibson wrote:that's not an option cause you do your bh before you know what the jap player is gonna do.

why? if he doesn't start consulate, you shouldn't build fb. or you'll 120% lose it.


lol nah, why would u lose it...

if u see cons rush incoming, you drop a second blockhouse with the 400w and you ship strelets instead of 5 cossack.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

umeu wrote:
Couprider wrote:
gibson wrote:that's not an option cause you do your bh before you know what the jap player is gonna do.

why? if he doesn't start consulate, you shouldn't build fb. or you'll 120% lose it.


lol nah, why would u lose it...

if u see cons rush incoming, you drop a second blockhouse with the 400w and you ship strelets instead of 5 cossack.

Thats why I start Nagi. Also 10-13 clubs have insane siege potential.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by deleted_user0 »

yea, thats why you make musketeers. you also cant have many of either unit out. you have to choose to have either many clubs or many nagi, because you must choose to send 300xport or 600c.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Garja »

The thing is that either with high ir low eco approach you are not going to have more than 3-4 nagis sub 6 min so going full strel + 5 coss is still relative safe. Only thing is to make sure you stay more defensive if you scout jap cons.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by KINGofOsmane »

you cant kill 2bh early on as japs even if you club rush
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by fei123456 »

6 club+6 samurai+8 nagi> any early russian army
samurai are insanely OP in this situation
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Hmm. In my experience on qs, against people pr 25+, I have found that my 10-13 club/7-9 nagi and 5 yumi can break blockhouse almost everytime. Nagi seem better than ruskets.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Zhanson10 »

Darwin_ wrote:Hmm. In my experience on qs, against people pr 25+, I have found that my 10-13 club/7-9 nagi and 5 yumi can break blockhouse almost everytime. Nagi seem better than ruskets.

all u need is 5 dogs and ur army is toast :P
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Zhanson10 wrote:
Darwin_ wrote:Hmm. In my experience on qs, against people pr 25+, I have found that my 10-13 club/7-9 nagi and 5 yumi can break blockhouse almost everytime. Nagi seem better than ruskets.

all u need is 5 dogs and ur army is toast :P

That was a different situation xD
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Hazza54321 »

Problem is u can scout japan from minute 1 if they build a cons if they ship 2v kami or 300w check their devk when they age up if the 2x isnt gone then you know they shipped daimyo or 300e which either way means the same thing
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by deleted_user0 »

bo to beat za rushia = 300w 600w 600c 4v units.
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Re: Options: Japan vs Russia

Post by Darwin_ »

Hazza54321 wrote:Problem is u can scout japan from minute 1 if they build a cons if they ship 2v kami or 300w check their devk when they age up if the 2x isnt gone then you know they shipped daimyo or 300e which either way means the same thing

Yeah that is a big issue. I am mostly talking about this matchup in qs, where I have the most experience with it, and in that game style, I have found that even if russia does a defensive blockhouse or tries to go age 3, I have done just as well if not better as Japan. I normally do a slightly slower build If I don't scout the forward bh, usually 600w-300e-units/5 boats/4v-attack card. I also do a rax start more often if they go defensive, with a stable on 600w into the same sort of nagi/club/yumi/ashi composition I do when I rush them. If you are on a map that allows for 3 boats first, you are in an insane position IMO, as 3 boats seems to be the best age 1 card for the ~7-8 minute timing I try to do.
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