how can i counter Germany's mercenaries?

Spain NekoBerk
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how can i counter Germany's mercenaries?

Post by NekoBerk »

Thoses mercenarys are really OP, i didn't find a way to counter them :(, there is always a guy who does Semi-FF Merc.
Just like my friend CARPlucas, he beats me really easy with that stratetgy. Here's a gameplay of him
[video]https://youtu.be/4NjLPnxxEQ0?t=5m48s[/video]
So... somebody knows how can i counter that strategy?, it piss me off sometimes xD.
Would be better if you tell me how can i counter it with brits :P, but if i should do a specific strategy with a different civ it will be okay.
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Post by Kaiserklein »

German mercs is the ultimate lame strat, it cannot be beaten. Just resign or do mercs yourself. Also Iro might be able to win
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by tedere12 »

make spies or ninjas
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by NekoBerk »

tedere12 wrote:make spies or ninjas


They cost a lot of resources don't you think? and spies are kinda bad :(, they die really fast.
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by P i k i l i c »

I like this strat, especially against Ottomans
But from my experience, it is pretty easily countered by a cav start, because comancheros are bad. When he is in age III, his mines will quicky run out and he will have to venture far from his base and find at least 2 mines. Just raid on every mine with cav and build manors on all mines.
Don't forget that stradiots, hackapells and landsknechts get countered by spies.
I also think a cav/pike timing when he just clicked age III could hurt him much
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:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Kaiserklein wrote:German mercs is the ultimate lame strat, it cannot be beaten. Just resign or do mercs yourself. Also Iro might be able to win

dunno why u sarcasticly respond some mercs are op
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by P i k i l i c »

Some are but you just rely on luck. The point is, I think you should strike in the right time window, and don't forget to raid, but most people just wait until the powerspike of this strat, train musks against renegados, dont train any cav in the game etc
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:hmm: AoE logic :hmm:
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by lemmings121 »

tedere12 wrote:make spies or ninjas

why does everyone sugest this insanity?
they dont have bonus vs outlaws o.O
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

You guys are all idiots. This guy is clearly just plugging his friend's youtube channel with some nonsense story surrounding it.

/s
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Post by Rikikipu »

lemmings121 wrote:
tedere12 wrote:make spies or ninjas

why does everyone sugest this insanity?
they dont have bonus vs outlaws o.O

Yeah idk why people call "outlaws", "mercenaries". These is not because units come from the same buildong that they are the same type...
Pikilic said a good point here, cav start is good vs it. What you need to understand is that renegados are terrible to micro and they got an insane attack. Which means that they perform very well in skirmish fights, vs low units count. But when you start having a big amount of units like 25 musk and 10 huss, they are really really horrible. So what you want as russia is playing time until you got enough strelet and cossack to make his units unefficient. Don't forget to raid him it's also the key in this strat since he will be constantly busy at micrlong your units and having good trades, so raiding him will help you to mess his macro/micro and will offer you time
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Hazza54321 wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:German mercs is the ultimate lame strat, it cannot be beaten. Just resign or do mercs yourself. Also Iro might be able to win

dunno why u sarcasticly respond some mercs are op

No it's never good to go full mercs
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

P i k i l i c wrote:I like this strat, especially against Ottomans
But from my experience, it is pretty easily countered by a cav start, because comancheros are bad. When he is in age III, his mines will quicky run out and he will have to venture far from his base and find at least 2 mines. Just raid on every mine with cav and build manors on all mines.
Don't forget that stradiots, hackapells and landsknechts get countered by spies.
I also think a cav/pike timing when he just clicked age III could hurt him much


together with petards and revolution mercs are in the TOP 3 of the ultimative troll strats, and thats the reason why ppl do it.
so you can say, "lul u lost vs mercs loook ur TC got petarded wher r ur wonders el oh el im such a badass, GG out"
..its just gud fun
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by NekoBerk »

I tried to counter it doing LB+Pike rush And starting with pikes trying to destroy houses, but germany still pretty strong for me and they still kicking my ass with mercs
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Well you need to know which kind of outlaws are on which map if you want to counter it effectively (just like the guy making mercs needs to know which outlaws he has on which map, it's fair). If you know he has renegados, don't go for lb pike, because it might lose to renegados+free uhlans. One tip is : you don't need much anti cav vs pure saloon in age 2, because there is no melee cav inside of it, on any map. So you can pretty much go RI+cav and be safe, knowing that ger guy will have at most 6, or maybe 8 uhlans during all the time he stays age 2. Also try to timing push his base when he ages up, because he can't have a big mass since the saloon trains so slowly its units. He will btw be out of gold really soon after he aged, so you should check goldmines near his base.
If you have a big mass when he runs out of gold, it's just gg. He's not gonna be able to push out with saloon units, since they can't kite.

Note that I'm talking about full mercs here, if he ships regular units in age 3 it's different. Either way, a saloon semi is suboptimal in any match up, compared to another german strat, so if you lose to it, it either means you played it wrong, or that the match up is too much germany favoured for you too win, regardless of what the guy is doing.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Hazza54321 »

U say mass the counter, say u get manchu black rider or highlander in the saloon so u need basically pure RI to counter them with merc combat then u get so many free uhlans and just molest his army
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Mass the counter is just obvious, you're not gonna mass musks if he has jeagers. You also need to check his deck and see which kind of mercs he might ship, for example don't go full skirms vs highlanders, keep a mass of 15 goons or so, for free uhlans and/or hackapells.
But ofc if you reach the stage of the game where germany was untouched, allowed to age up with palatine settlements + 3 sw + 700w, full market 2 tps, then ship merc combat and royal mint, yeah you can just lose in some match ups. You need to make something happen before this... Or then it's as stupid as crying because china has old han when you yourself went FI.

Anyway it's simple : this strat is an easy build order, anyone decent can do it. So if you want we can play some games, you pick my civ (maybe not dutch or so because it's really hardcore vs ger), and you go mercs, and we see what happens.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Mass the counter is just obvious, you're not gonna mass musks if he has jeagers. You also need to check his deck and see which kind of mercs he might ship, for example don't go full skirms vs highlanders, keep a mass of 15 goons or so, for free uhlans and/or hackapells.
But ofc if you reach the stage of the game where germany was untouched, allowed to age up with palatine settlements + 3 sw + 700w, full market 2 tps, then ship merc combat and royal mint, yeah you can just lose in some match ups. You need to make something happen before this... Or then it's as stupid as crying because china has old han when you yourself went FI.

What about vs an age 2 civ with no goons?
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by zoom »

Neither mercenary nor nazi bested you – 'twas CARPlucas!
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Hazza54321 wrote:What about vs an age 2 civ with no goons?


Well for one thing, I don't know any civ which would be too slow to go age 3 vs germany doing palatine / 3 sw / 700w semi ff. So colonial civ doesn't even really make sense here.
For another, if you're an age 2 civ, you have ways to push germany before/when it ages up, I'm pretty sure. Maybe when germany goes standard, with a 8 bow shipment to defend, and 700g to age up faster, and real units instead of outlaws, maybe then you lose the match up sometimes yeah. But not against the kind of outlaw semi I do.

Anyway there's a reason why I keep losing to some guys, who are like 10 pr under me, when I do this strat. They just understood how to counter it. On the other hand I sometimes beat colonel+ guys with it, just because they play it wrong, and let me have palatine + full market + 2 tps + merc combat + royal mint and then spend 1000g and wait 1 min for my hackapells to come... And then cry that mercs are lame. I can even get stagecoach sometimes rofl.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Kaiserklein wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:What about vs an age 2 civ with no goons?


Well for one thing, I don't know any civ which would be too slow to go age 3 vs germany doing palatine / 3 sw / 700w semi ff. So colonial civ doesn't even really make sense here.
For another, if you're an age 2 civ, you have ways to push germany before/when it ages up, I'm pretty sure. Maybe when germany goes standard, with a 8 bow shipment to defend, and 700g to age up faster, and real units instead of outlaws, maybe then you lose the match up sometimes yeah. But not against the kind of outlaw semi I do.

Anyway there's a reason why I keep losing to some guys, who are like 10 pr under me, when I do this strat. They just understood how to counter it. On the other hand I sometimes beat colonel+ guys with it, just because they play it wrong, and let me have palatine + full market + 2 tps + merc combat + royal mint and then spend 1000g and wait 1 min for my hackapells to come... And then cry that mercs are lame. I can even get stagecoach sometimes rofl.

Japan brits?
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by milku3459 »

magiCARPlucas
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Hazza54321 wrote:Japan brits?

People sometimes age up against standard germany with those civs, but it wouldn't work when germany is slower ? Doesn't make sense.

And anyway, brits should be able to push germany np when they do this strat, in colo. It's just about having the good units composition, microing decently, and hitting the good timing. How would I hold a brit musk huss when I age up at 9 min with like 10 renegados and 6 uhlans, and I don't have any units shipments ? If you go heavy enough on huss, and don't fail your micro/macro, it should be np.

About japan, they probs can't rush germany (even though this outlaw semi is so slow that even a japan cheese rush might work), but they're one of those civs who can just wait until germany gets OP mercs untouched, but still beat it because they themselves get insane units and a very good eco. Japan is one of the civs against which I have the hardest time. Ah and also, you can never rush them with outlaws, because yumis beat any unit you can get out of your saloon in age 2 (skirm/musk/pike/goon type units). Japan might even be able to just timing push like brits do.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

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Kaiser op hazza
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by Ashvin »

spies shenanigans :hehe:
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Re: how can i counter Germany's mercenarys?

Post by evilcheadar »

Fighting vs Germany in fortress is usually a huge pain in the ass, so it's best if you don't let them get there or wound them horrifically before.
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