Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
Hi guys!
I've been wondering for a few days about this setup (as Russia or other civs with no vills-cards): send 300w as the first shipment, make a TP, and then follow it by the standard Distributism, 5 cossacks, blablabla.
My question is: ¿does anybody calculate if spending the first shipment with the 300w and building a TP would supose the same shipments in the mid-term?
I mean: if I send Distributism as the first card, my second shipment arrives before I reach colonial. But if I send 300w and make a TP, my second shipment would arrive a minute later. So then I could send Distributism and have my third shipment in colonial plus 100w and the TP of my own for the minutes to come.
I've been wondering for a few days about this setup (as Russia or other civs with no vills-cards): send 300w as the first shipment, make a TP, and then follow it by the standard Distributism, 5 cossacks, blablabla.
My question is: ¿does anybody calculate if spending the first shipment with the 300w and building a TP would supose the same shipments in the mid-term?
I mean: if I send Distributism as the first card, my second shipment arrives before I reach colonial. But if I send 300w and make a TP, my second shipment would arrive a minute later. So then I could send Distributism and have my third shipment in colonial plus 100w and the TP of my own for the minutes to come.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
I am not sure of the extact math but it slows down your shipment progression after the 3rd card I think, which has a pretty big impact. And if you send 5 Cossacks 30 sec later becuase not having the card it's pretty bad for Russia.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
As the Russians or the Portuguese you may consider sending the Advanced Trading Post card if you're considering using your first shipment in the Discovery Age to take some control of a trading route.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
As Otto do crate trick on 400w start- send 300w and age with 400w- send silkroad then 700w back to back, collect the extra 360w from crates and spam 900c ships and 3 unit comp= FUN
We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created by the you know, you know the thing.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
investing a shipment to get a shipment sooner has diminishing returns i think, kind of like how uhlan described it
atp is different because you can stage-coach and get some good income in.
atp is different because you can stage-coach and get some good income in.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
U can do 300w first and make 2 tps and then still send wood trickle after. Only works on a 200w start or with a good wood tres. I guess it would be nice in a passive mu or vs an atp civ. Otherwise I think it's not so great
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
Tip for Great Lakes:
The top player gets the first pass of the route. The bottom player can get the upper right one in time.
Now you can send 300w immediately to build the TP on the very right (top) or the one at home should you be the bottom player. This only works if you run from TP to TP immediately and gather and build asap.
That way you have two TP's and still a second colonial shipment and two shipments upon aging up.
Downsides: close to zero scouting information which is crucial on GL since you'll either miss a hunt or the second mine (which is half map anyway).
Should you be delayed your build is kinda fucked up.
You can't actually take treasures.
The top player gets the first pass of the route. The bottom player can get the upper right one in time.
Now you can send 300w immediately to build the TP on the very right (top) or the one at home should you be the bottom player. This only works if you run from TP to TP immediately and gather and build asap.
That way you have two TP's and still a second colonial shipment and two shipments upon aging up.
Downsides: close to zero scouting information which is crucial on GL since you'll either miss a hunt or the second mine (which is half map anyway).
Should you be delayed your build is kinda fucked up.
You can't actually take treasures.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
I have done some tests. I'm going to list the timings using 300w card and not using it, without fighting for treasures not to alter the xp income:
Using 300w card and making a TP
1st shipment arrives at 2:00
2nd at 3:55
3rd at 5:35
4th at 6:58
Not using 300w card and no TP
1st at 2:00
2nd at 4:13
3rd at 6:14
4th at 8:38
So, we can say that it could worth it at the long run but is not worth for a rush or for a fast riding, because 5 cossacks arrive a bit later than what you would. And you have no Distributism running on the background piling up wood, so... In my opinion, not a good idea. I'll keep with Distributism as the first shipment for Russia.
What do you think with the numbers?
Using 300w card and making a TP
1st shipment arrives at 2:00
2nd at 3:55
3rd at 5:35
4th at 6:58
Not using 300w card and no TP
1st at 2:00
2nd at 4:13
3rd at 6:14
4th at 8:38
So, we can say that it could worth it at the long run but is not worth for a rush or for a fast riding, because 5 cossacks arrive a bit later than what you would. And you have no Distributism running on the background piling up wood, so... In my opinion, not a good idea. I'll keep with Distributism as the first shipment for Russia.
What do you think with the numbers?
- britishmusketeer
- Howdah
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Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
thing is though that when you finally get an extra shipment from the tp, all you've done is made up for the fact that that you 'wasted' a shipment on 300w. Meanwhile the wood trickle has gathered you like 700w by 10 mins and is continuing to gather.ronsu wrote:I have done some tests. I'm going to list the timings using 300w card and not using it, without fighting for treasures not to alter the xp income:
Using 300w card and making a TP
1st shipment arrives at 2:00
2nd at 3:55
3rd at 5:35
4th at 6:58
Not using 300w card and no TP
1st at 2:00
2nd at 4:13
3rd at 6:14
4th at 8:38
So, we can say that it could worth it at the long run but is not worth for a rush or for a fast riding, because 5 cossacks arrive a bit later than what you would. And you have no Distributism running on the background piling up wood, so... In my opinion, not a good idea. I'll keep with Distributism as the first shipment for Russia.
What do you think with the numbers?
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
investing a shipment to get a shipment sooner has diminishing returns i think, kind of like how uhlan described it
thing is though that when you finally get an extra shipment from the tp, all you've done is made up for the fact that that you 'wasted' a shipment on 300w. Meanwhile the wood trickle has gathered you like 700w by 10 mins and is continuing to gather.
You guys do know a TP is 200w, not 300? The extra 100w is a big deal, too.
I still haven't had the chance to do the math properly but 300w should be better than trickle if your build relies on shipments. I think for the very popular aggro Russia style the trickle might be better because you're playing to outlast them, not for a timing or an age up which if you are playing for a timing or age up a 30 second faster shipment at 7 min can make a big difference.
- lemmings121
- Jaeger
- Posts: 2673
- Joined: Mar 15, 2015
- ESO: lemmings121
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
I agree with britmusk, you are basically investing one shipment to get shipments quicker, but you just end up behind in shipments all game long, with extra 100w.
Maybe it can be viable in very specific cases, or maybe if you get a 95w tres and can make 2tps.
Maybe it can be viable in very specific cases, or maybe if you get a 95w tres and can make 2tps.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
ronsu wrote:I have done some tests. I'm going to list the timings using 300w card and not using it, without fighting for treasures not to alter the xp income:
Using 300w card and making a TP
1st shipment arrives at 2:00
2nd at 3:55
3rd at 5:35
4th at 6:58
Not using 300w card and no TP
1st at 2:00
2nd at 4:13
3rd at 6:14
4th at 8:38
So, we can say that it could worth it at the long run but is not worth for a rush or for a fast riding, because 5 cossacks arrive a bit later than what you would. And you have no Distributism running on the background piling up wood, so... In my opinion, not a good idea. I'll keep with Distributism as the first shipment for Russia.
What do you think with the numbers?
You gotta also list the 5th shipment for the 300w bo. Cuz otherwise ur a shipment down in exchange for 100w which gs mistakenly thinks is a big deal, but a trickle (for Russia/Japan) or vils (for Otto/china) will gather more than that by the time the 300w bought tp pays off and will keep gathering after. This 300wfirst for tp is really only worth it in case u want to get many tps, but for euro civs u might as well atp then. Unless u will only get 2 on a route of 3. I've played around with 300w openings for all above mentioned civs, and even with Dutch, but in the end it always just felt inferior to other builds
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
You also have to consider the opportunity cost of not having shipments early and the fact that you can use those to make more stuff to kill more stuff and get more exp.
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- Musketeer
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- Joined: Feb 3, 2017
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
The window of the 300 wood benefiting you will shut down real fast considering that the wood trickle stays with you the whole game and it really isn't that hard to get a blockhouse up with it + the wood trickle really kicks in with the ability to help pay for houses which you need for population space.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
umeu wrote:U can do 300w first and make 2 tps and then still send wood trickle after. Only works on a 200w start or with a good wood tres. I guess it would be nice in a passive mu or vs an atp civ. Otherwise I think it's not so great
Is it not better to atp yourself on this case ? Because your build seems slow and ez to punish because the other guy will see that u get 2 TPs early and can just destroy them easier than if u atp.
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
This may be good with Japan. They age a little slower and make shrines in transition so they should still have a shipment ready when they reach colo.
last time i cryed was because i stood on Lego
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- Musketeer
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Feb 3, 2017
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
Comparing 300 wood to the shipment your opponent ships puts you at a disadvantage.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 14364
- Joined: Mar 26, 2015
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
yemshi wrote:Tip for Great Lakes:
The top player gets the first pass of the route. The bottom player can get the upper right one in time.
Now you can send 300w immediately to build the TP on the very right (top) or the one at home should you be the bottom player. This only works if you run from TP to TP immediately and gather and build asap.
That way you have two TP's and still a second colonial shipment and two shipments upon aging up.
Downsides: close to zero scouting information which is crucial on GL since you'll either miss a hunt or the second mine (which is half map anyway).
Should you be delayed your build is kinda fucked up.
You can't actually take treasures.
lol tps are so hilariously op on great lakes
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
deleted_user wrote:yemshi wrote:Tip for Great Lakes:
The top player gets the first pass of the route. The bottom player can get the upper right one in time.
Now you can send 300w immediately to build the TP on the very right (top) or the one at home should you be the bottom player. This only works if you run from TP to TP immediately and gather and build asap.
That way you have two TP's and still a second colonial shipment and two shipments upon aging up.
Downsides: close to zero scouting information which is crucial on GL since you'll either miss a hunt or the second mine (which is half map anyway).
Should you be delayed your build is kinda fucked up.
You can't actually take treasures.
lol tps are so hilariously op on great lakes
One pass is worth the wood already, true.
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- Ninja
- Posts: 13004
- Joined: Apr 28, 2020
Re: Send 300w and make a TP: worth it?
bwinner1 wrote:umeu wrote:U can do 300w first and make 2 tps and then still send wood trickle after. Only works on a 200w start or with a good wood tres. I guess it would be nice in a passive mu or vs an atp civ. Otherwise I think it's not so great
Is it not better to atp yourself on this case ? Because your build seems slow and ez to punish because the other guy will see that u get 2 TPs early and can just destroy them easier than if u atp.
Not on a map like go, but ye, it might not be so great. I was just brainstorming
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