Is Amalgamation worth it?

User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by Darwin_ »

So, when is it worth it to get this upgrade? Would it be worth it for teamgames only?
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user »

It fits quite nicely into France and German semi ff build orders, where their age 3 compositions are very gold heavy and they have many villagers mining. With amalgamation it's usually more cost-efficient to buy wood for houses (if no 1000w first) than to chop it in these cases. Amalgamation in transition to age 3 is standard with France and Germany.

Dutch have too many banks and thus not enough villagers mining to be viable.

Brit/Port/Russia have too food-heavy/low-coin age 3 compositions (lbows, cass, strelet).

Spain never goes this greedy as they rely on quick age 3 timings.

Otto have max 25 vills and can't afford to spend 400 res into 7 vills on coin. Better for them to tp boom and research stage coach.

TWC civs and TAD civs ofc don't have this market upgrade
User avatar
Tonga sdsanft
Howdah
Posts: 1061
Joined: Dec 23, 2015
ESO: sdsanft

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by sdsanft »

Typically I try to get this off 700w if I'm feeling less aggressive and extra greedy. Else I get it with 1000w or not at all. Side note: is it worth to buy 200w for this upgrade?
Image

Site: Be there or be square
Jakey: I'm square because I'm not around
France benj89
Howdah
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mar 11, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by benj89 »

For frenchies in team:
If you can afford to be a bit greedy (i.e not being pressured), market upgrades are always worth it. If you cav amalgamation is must imo and should be done as soon as you can - I try to do it with 700w and no later than 8-9min.
Also, circular saw should be done before you transition to mills/plantation.
I believe that making the market ups while not being too greedy + doing the relevant ars ups (such as counter infantry, ranged cavalry, cav cuirass, heated shot) can make you win few PRs.
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
User avatar
United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3409
Joined: Aug 20, 2016
ESO: _H2O

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

  • Quote

Post by _H2O »

I never tech it.

Usually it takes too long to break even and the limiting number of mines makes it kinda meh. Overall it's gonna be fine if you get it or not. I have not gotten out boomed ever due to not teching it. And the 200 wood could go to houses or arsenal or tc instead.

Most people tech it. I know my opinion is probably marginally wrong due to some calculation that is missing factors in it. I still wouldn't recommend thinking about this tech in detail until you are like pr 38. It just doesn't matter much.
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by site »

_H2O wrote:I never tech it.

Usually it takes too long to break even and the limiting number of mines makes it kinda meh. Overall it's gonna be fine if you get it or not. I have not gotten out boomed ever due to not teching it. And the 200 wood could go to houses or arsenal or tc instead.

Most people tech it. I know my opinion is probably marginally wrong due to some calculation that is missing factors in it. I still wouldn't recommend thinking about this tech in detail until you are like pr 38. It just doesn't matter much.


Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user »

site wrote:
_H2O wrote:I never tech it.

Usually it takes too long to break even and the limiting number of mines makes it kinda meh. Overall it's gonna be fine if you get it or not. I have not gotten out boomed ever due to not teching it. And the 200 wood could go to houses or arsenal or tc instead.

Most people tech it. I know my opinion is probably marginally wrong due to some calculation that is missing factors in it. I still wouldn't recommend thinking about this tech in detail until you are like pr 38. It just doesn't matter much.


Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.


A man climbs. He climbs and climbs a steep slope until, one day, he reaches the top: level ground. The man has climbed a plateau.

Unfortunately, during his climb he developed an addiction, or at least, a strong, suggestive positive feedback loop. He developed a continued need to climb further, to climb more, to climb until there is no more left to climb. But there is no more left to climb. The man has climbed a plateau.

The scenery is nice: plains on all sides, wildlife parading about, streams meandering this way and that, open skies and warm weather abounding. But the man looks only upwards and finds nothing of value or of worth but empty clouds and a blinding sun.

There is no more to climb. He has reached its limit. The slope no longer points upward but instead lies flat. Despite any amount of expended effort the man is still on top of his plateau, no more, no less. He learns to accept this. In his acceptance he looks downward. The horizon dances with vivid drunkenness, the colors of its setting-sun-landscape form a beautiful delta'd hue. The view is pleasant. He notices its pleasantness and accepts it within himself. He grasps what he has accomplished with his climb and holds it within his heart, in his core; he holds it preciously as a matter of truth and of fact and of perseverance. No one can take away his trek from him, no more trek lives on for him, he exists on top of this plateau, his plateau, and the man is content.

Moral of the story?

Sometimes, in various parts of our lives we climb various, steep faces and reach the tops of them, our personal plateaus, and we should learn to be content with the view instead of looking into the heavens for more, into and through empty water-vapor-voids in search for something but finding nothing but a blinding sun some hundred million miles away.
User avatar
European Union aaryngend
Howdah
Posts: 1562
Joined: Sep 26, 2015
Location: Germany
Clan: N3O

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by aaryngend »

site wrote:Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.
Is that a serious question? Your job is to bow down to H2O, of course. Until you surpass him...then you can ask for the throne :smile: And the circle of life starts again...
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by fei123456 »

site wrote:Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.

a balance between unit and eco. the more greedy you're, the less units you have, and you become more vulnerable.
top players can hold pressure with less army (but even h2o can't survive aggro every time).
Italy DaRkNiTe1698
Lancer
Posts: 723
Joined: Aug 8, 2016
ESO: Marco1698

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by DaRkNiTe1698 »

I tech it when I sent 1000w or got a tp boom
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user »

aaryngend wrote:
site wrote:Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.
Is that a serious question? Your job is to bow down to H2O, of course. Until you surpass him...then you can ask for the throne :smile: And the circle of life starts again...

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis "the wise"?
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Definitely worth it on 5k coin maps like california yukon mongolia etc
User avatar
United States of America SoldieR
Pro Player
Posts: 2270
Joined: Feb 22, 2015
ESO: SoldieR
Location: Chi City

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by SoldieR »

Ya I've always wondered, if there are only 6k of coin before the game needs to be over, it's prob not worth, but people like rapha get it at like 7min xD
Germany lordraphael
Pro Player
EWTNWC LAN SilverAdvanced Division WinnerDonator 01
Posts: 2549
Joined: Jun 28, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

  • Quote

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:
site wrote:
_H2O wrote:I never tech it.

Usually it takes too long to break even and the limiting number of mines makes it kinda meh. Overall it's gonna be fine if you get it or not. I have not gotten out boomed ever due to not teching it. And the 200 wood could go to houses or arsenal or tc instead.

Most people tech it. I know my opinion is probably marginally wrong due to some calculation that is missing factors in it. I still wouldn't recommend thinking about this tech in detail until you are like pr 38. It just doesn't matter much.


Follow up question: What SHOULD we be thinking about? PR 25 range.


A man climbs. He climbs and climbs a steep slope until, one day, he reaches the top: level ground. The man has climbed a plateau.

Unfortunately, during his climb he developed an addiction, or at least, a strong, suggestive positive feedback loop. He developed a continued need to climb further, to climb more, to climb until there is no more left to climb. But there is no more left to climb. The man has climbed a plateau.

The scenery is nice: plains on all sides, wildlife parading about, streams meandering this way and that, open skies and warm weather abounding. But the man looks only upwards and finds nothing of value or of worth but empty clouds and a blinding sun.

There is no more to climb. He has reached its limit. The slope no longer points upward but instead lies flat. Despite any amount of expended effort the man is still on top of his plateau, no more, no less. He learns to accept this. In his acceptance he looks downward. The horizon dances with vivid drunkenness, the colors of its setting-sun-landscape form a beautiful delta'd hue. The view is pleasant. He notices its pleasantness and accepts it within himself. He grasps what he has accomplished with his climb and holds it within his heart, in his core; he holds it preciously as a matter of truth and of fact and of perseverance. No one can take away his trek from him, no more trek lives on for him, he exists on top of this plateau, his plateau, and the man is content.

Moral of the story?

Sometimes, in various parts of our lives we climb various, steep faces and reach the tops of them, our personal plateaus, and we should learn to be content with the view instead of looking into the heavens for more, into and through empty water-vapor-voids in search for something but finding nothing but a blinding sun some hundred million miles away.

collen i honestly think you have to much time :) How long do you need for those posts ?
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
Germany supernapoleon
Lancer
Posts: 655
Joined: Sep 9, 2015
ESO: Supernapoleon
Location: Munich

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by supernapoleon »

Hazza54321 wrote:Definitely worth it on 5k coin maps like california yukon mongolia etc

Don't forget deccan
"I'M SOOOOOO GOOD AT THE GAME"
Hazza wrote: "I mad u win cos u get carried all game and have to lame every game"
Image
User avatar
Bavaria Gichtenlord
Howdah
Donator 03
Posts: 1437
Joined: Nov 15, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by Gichtenlord »

supernapoleon wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Definitely worth it on 5k coin maps like california yukon mongolia etc

Don't forget deccan

Guess what etc. is standing for.
r]
Germany supernapoleon
Lancer
Posts: 655
Joined: Sep 9, 2015
ESO: Supernapoleon
Location: Munich

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by supernapoleon »

Gichtenlord wrote:
supernapoleon wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:Definitely worth it on 5k coin maps like california yukon mongolia etc

Don't forget deccan

Guess what etc. is standing for.

The most played map on tad is more worth than an "etc"
"I'M SOOOOOO GOOD AT THE GAME"
Hazza wrote: "I mad u win cos u get carried all game and have to lame every game"
Image
User avatar
Germany yemshi
Jaeger
Posts: 2311
Joined: Jun 3, 2015
ESO: yemshi
Location: Germany

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by yemshi »

Not like deccan has TONS of mines.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by deleted_user »

@lordraphael this one was actually pretty quick: roughly 15 min for the first draft.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by zoom »

deleted_user wrote:@lordraphael this one was actually pretty quick: roughly 15 min for the first draft.
Well... you're sharp! :maniac: :ugly: :uglylol:
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by deleted_user »

zoom wrote:
deleted_user wrote:@lordraphael this one was actually pretty quick: roughly 15 min for the first draft.
Well... you're sharp! :maniac: :ugly: :uglylol:


>Report Post

>The reported message does not fit into any other category, please use the further information field

>It is to my understanding that the user in question has been specifically singling me out in his green-emote replies, presumably in response to the thread I made expressing my negative feelings towards the green emotes, and as such, the user is provoking me purposely into hopeful hateful backlash.
No Flag OrangeRage
Musketeer
Posts: 84
Joined: Feb 3, 2017

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by OrangeRage »

I usually will tech amalgamation if there are gold mines that contain more coin than its copper and silver counterparts and you have access to a few of them. Decaan is a good example of when it might pay off but if you only have 1 mine or the standard 2 mines without much of a guarantee of securing more mines then I probably would not send it unless it has been proves with some civs/bo's to pay off. The tech is quite useless to get if your really don't have much left to mine =/

I think getting amalgamation is rather tempting if you can easily afford it but on most maps I think it's a rip off.

These are things to keep in mind if you want to spend the 200 wood + 200 food which would be used with 700 wood shipment and rather early in the game.
User avatar
Poland pecelot
Retired Contributor
Donator 03
Posts: 10459
Joined: Mar 25, 2015
ESO: Pezet

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by pecelot »

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7113
literally the exact same topic... search before you post!
User avatar
United States of America Darwin_
Howdah
Posts: 1446
Joined: Nov 14, 2015
Location: Boston

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by Darwin_ »

pecelot wrote:http://eso-community.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=7113
literally the exact same topic... search before you post!

Sorry. Though to be fair, EP 2.0 was rather new at that point and the meta had not evolved as much as it has now, so this topic is still somewhat useful.
somppukunkku wrote:This is not a fucking discogame.
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
Gendarme
Posts: 9314
Joined: Apr 26, 2015
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

Re: Is Amalgamation worth it?

Post by zoom »

deleted_user wrote:
zoom wrote:
deleted_user wrote:@lordraphael this one was actually pretty quick: roughly 15 min for the first draft.
Well... you're sharp! :maniac: :ugly: :uglylol:


>Report Post

>The reported message does not fit into any other category, please use the further information field

>It is to my understanding that the user in question has been specifically singling me out in his green-emote replies, presumably in response to the thread I made expressing my negative feelings towards the green emotes, and as such, the user is provoking me purposely into hopeful hateful backlash.
Don't call me a hater. I'm no Goodspeed, man...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV