Insight Studios Buildtester!

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Malaysia Aizamk
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by Aizamk »

rsy wrote:@Aizamk are chakrams viable on maps with udasi natives after u get the range upgrade? I think it is like +4 range and los

Sinking 600 resources into increasing 10 range to 14 isn't a great improvement. Maybe decent for an actual grenadier, but not a self-professed "Good against infantry and buildings" with 15 siege...
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

How?? The Iro Lacrosse upgrade takes 1200 resources to pay off only 2 range for infantry units. +4 range, just for 450 res for chakram seems to work out well. Also they are cheap, so 15 siege doesn't matter...I hope my statement is correct, please correct it if you have to, @Aizamk
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by rsy »

Aizamk wrote:
rsy wrote:@Aizamk are chakrams viable on maps with udasi natives after u get the range upgrade? I think it is like +4 range and los

Sinking 600 resources into increasing 10 range to 14 isn't a great improvement. Maybe decent for an actual grenadier, but not a self-professed "Good against infantry and buildings" with 15 siege...

just checked on the (edit: wiki heaven games page) it says its actually 200 resources for the upgrade. did it get nerfed or something?
Link: http://aoe3.heavengames.com/gameinfo/dyn/natives
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

rsy wrote:
Aizamk wrote:
rsy wrote:@Aizamk are chakrams viable on maps with udasi natives after u get the range upgrade? I think it is like +4 range and los

Sinking 600 resources into increasing 10 range to 14 isn't a great improvement. Maybe decent for an actual grenadier, but not a self-professed "Good against infantry and buildings" with 15 siege...

just checked on the wiki it says its actually 200 resources for the upgrade. did it get nerfed or something?

nah lol, the upgrade that takes 200 resources increases explorer HP, The +4 range for chakrams exactly takes 450 res (225 f, 225 g)
oranges.
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Malaysia Aizamk
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by Aizamk »

No, 600 res. 300w 300g.

+2 range means you have some units going from 20 to 22 range, which would allow them to outrange even genitours. Plus it affects even more than only one niche unit, which when going from 10 to 14 range means absolutely nothing. Even so the +2 range upgrade isn't one you would normally see in a supremacy game ever. It's just not useful enough compared to more tangible upgrades (for its cost, that is).

The point with siege is that it's supposed to be a grenadier type unit according to the description, and it clearly isn't.
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

Could somebody verify that the 'Army of the Pure' upgrade in Native udasi TP's takes 225 f, 225 g? I have PC in a bad condition, so I couldn't verify it.

And @Aizamk I understand what you mean, But it seems that with that upgrade, They seem to do well against infantry better than grenadiers with 1.5X and 14 range. Who wouldn't like a grenadier that does well vs infantry and bad vs buildings?
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

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Post by pecelot »

Image

Corrected on the wikia page ^_^
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

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Post by japanesegeneral »

Here is my build order idea:

Spainpan ff

Japanese shipment order:

The first card depending on the map is either mountain warrior, 300w or heavenly kami.
You age up with the shrine and gather the resources required to go to age3. The shipments in age 2 are 600g and 600w. Use the wood to make a consulate and a barracks. Ally with spain. Age up with the shogunate. Use your export to get tercios. Ship flamming arrows. To your daymo and play like spain from here on using military shipments to keep up the pressure.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

Flamming arrows aren't as good as falconets, but their range is arguably good. The Spanish FF is quite faster, so you can get things early on with super fast shipments, if you do this with japan, it's too slow and risky. If you're going to directly ally with Spain, then you're missing a lot of things that will prove useful later on. This build is like if you lose your daiymo, it's gg totally. Yamabushis are better than tericos.
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by japanesegeneral »

Well the pro site of this bo is that you can ship 4 flaming arrows instead of only 2 falcs and you can even send light infantry shipments which spain lacks. You dont make a consulate in age 1 dont forget that you use that wood for a tp. You also have to concider that allying with spain grants you more exp income (maybe even faster shipment reinforcing time (but i am not sure about that though)). The pace of the build is pretty much dependent on treasures and how many villagers you use to build the wonder.

Edit: Pr 19 me was almost able to beat a pr 28 dutch using this bo. But my pikemen were completly out of position.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

No, it doesn't do the shipments go faster until you have the 'Merchant Marine' upgrade in the cons. Spain takes 27% lesser XP rate to get their shipment. Comparing this to the cons buff that gives 0.8 XP trickle is not good. @Aizamk Lord will explain this clearly.
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by pecelot »

The idea sounds nice, though, I'd definitely like to see it!
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by japanesegeneral »

I would also like to see the dutch naked petard ff vs. spain
Here is the bo:

first age: 3 villagers, tower age up
transition: gather mostly food and some wood, build a tp in transition
secound age: 700 gold, 700w age up fast, build your tower in forward position
third age: ship 6 petards and kill his tc + an additional house from here on you could either go for 9 ruyters or 1000w wood to get your banks down.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by Hazza54321 »

Petition for @Kaiserklein to make and update an aoe wiki page
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by Kaiserklein »

u wot
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

wtf dutch no bank during transition??


phpBB [video]
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by japanesegeneral »

A bank is too slow you want to kill an unguarded tc
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

japanesegeneral wrote:A bank is too slow you want to kill an unguarded tc


Could you just think something practical?? How can a TC be unguarded?? You're just sending off petards without the knowledge of what your opponent is doing. You think that he doesn't have any troops to defend him from those 6 petards? Ever heard of minutemen? They have bonus damage against siege units which is petards. 6 minutemen should have killed all of the petards before they blow themselves up.

japanesegeneral wrote:third age: ship 6 petards and kill his tc + an additional house from here on you could either go for 9 ruyters or 1000w wood to get your banks down.

For what are those 9 ruyters popping up??

Without an early bank, Dutch's eco is insignificant. Bank is what makes Dutch to call themselves 'Dutch'
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by pecelot »

Calm down, no need to raise your voice! :smile:

He just assumes, IMO correctly, that Spain goes for their regular naked-FF agenda. The idea sounds nice, though those Minutemen are indeed concerning :hmm: Plus perhaps a tower.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by tedere12 »

_RDX_ wrote:
japanesegeneral wrote:A bank is too slow you want to kill an unguarded tc


Could you just think something practical?? How can a TC be unguarded?? You're just sending off petards without the knowledge of what your opponent is doing. You think that he doesn't have any troops to defend him from those 6 petards? Ever heard of minutemen? They have bonus damage against siege units which is petards. 6 minutemen should have killed all of the petards before they blow themselves up.

japanesegeneral wrote:third age: ship 6 petards and kill his tc + an additional house from here on you could either go for 9 ruyters or 1000w wood to get your banks down.

For what are those 9 ruyters popping up??

Without an early bank, Dutch's eco is insignificant. Bank Jerom is what makes Dutch to call themselves 'Dutch'
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by _RDX_ »

pecelot wrote:Calm down, no need to raise your voice! :smile:

Was that too loud?
oranges.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by japanesegeneral »

I have not yet lost a petard even though i tried this like 10 times.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by macacoalbino »

its a cheese, maybe they wont have the gold for the mm, try to annoy him with the explorer and envoy, poking his stuff right before the petards come from the other way
it could work xD
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by japanesegeneral »

You obviously scout what he does aswell if he has a scary number of units start with 9 ruyter shipment. Minutenmen are no serious problem. Even if you loose one petard you still get to siege his tc down.
But as i said before i have not lost a single petard yet. Just poke with envoy and explorer.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Insight Studios Buildtester!

Post by pecelot »

japanesegeneral wrote:I have not yet lost a petard even though i tried this like 10 times.

That doesn't have to necessarily prove anything :sad:

TC + Outpost both have a big LOS, which means that they can spot your petards soon and call Minutemen in time. But indeed, something I didn't think about was whether the Spaniard has gathered resources to call them before it's too late... :P

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