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Poland pecelot
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21 Feb 2017, 23:10

Today it's time for the almighty Russians! Underpowered on RE, overpowered on EP? What do you think? Comment below :!:
by GoodSpeed :love:


**


Russia

Russia seems to be a straightforward civ on lower levels because their unit shipment no eco rush is extremely popular. However, rushing this way with Russia is literally never the right way to play them. The rush is nothing special except for the unusually strong 5 coss card which isn't quite strong enough to single-handedly carry the rush, and Russia's late game scaling is amazing. Boyars are the best upgrade card in the game and their units are already quite cost effective to begin with. Basically, Russia gets a cost-effective fortress composition (missing the ranged cav though) in colonial, simply by sending a card.
Russia's economy also grows significantly faster than most civs', and their vills only cost 90f too. A 270f 3v batch takes 50 seconds to complete while a regular vill takes 25 seconds. This means that with every vill batch, Russia is getting an extra vill for the price of 70f. This may not seem like much, but it adds up and while it doesn't mean their eco will keep up with a Brit or Japanese one, it does mean you want to kill them early. They are similar to Ports in that way too, besides not having any vill cards.

This means that Russia has some of the best late colonial scaling in the game. Killing them in colonial is therefore often hopeless (although not for every civ), and most civs will attempt to age up against them. After all, Russia can fall behind in economy and mass early on and still end up winning through sheer cost efficiency if you fail to age up against them.
Due to Russia's weak early economy and their timings not necessarily being the scariest in the game, most civs will have an opportunity to age up against them. This is where Russia's weakness lies, as they are a lot less comfortable in fortress wars. Their semi-FF, like the Portuguese one, can only send an eco card in the form of spice trade and this is not as good as 5v. Sure, they get CA instead of musks and their units are still quite cost effective, but they have to upgrade every unit (often, they even need to up the musks as it's common to semi-FF with musks) and their unit shipments are mediocre at best. However, even in fortress, Russia is a force to be reckoned with. Again, they excel in the later stages of the game and while they don't have game-winning shipments like urumi or an insanely strong composition like Azzy, your average civ won't want to get into a long game with them.

Most civs will therefore attempt to finish Russia early, and by that I don't mean early colonial but early in the game. This is possible for many of them due to stronger semi-FFs and/or strong booms, but depending on how many resources Russia has in their base, some civs can have trouble. Generally though, it's possible to either catch Russia with their pants down with a well-timed age up, or simply push them down with a colonial timing. Russia is fairly predictable after you scout their first card, and have a hard time squeezing in eco cards while keeping map control with a forward blockhouse, which they will often want in order to set up their eventual game-winning contain. Mostly Russia is stuck doing their generic musk coss start into strel+musk+coss colonial no matter what their opponent does, and if Russia can manage to scout an age up on time, they may be able to follow into fortress in some match ups. However, even that will rarely end up in a situation that Russia is comfortable in.

Your first goal as Russia is keeping the fight in colonial if at all possible. You want to get to a point where you can comfortably mass strelets and cossacks without running into population trouble, which is where boyars starts to get all kinds of ridiculous. You don't really mind fortress as Russia, but you'll find it much harder to win there and as mentioned, the road to fortress is somewhat awkward for Russia.
Russia has some decent timings to punish age ups, but they won't win you the game in every match up. There are really only 2 ways of playing this civ: either do a timing on resource shipments + 5 coss, or send spice trade early and go for long term colonial or a semi-FF, based on your opponent's build. Which one to choose depends on whether or not you are able to punish an age up with a timing. If you're sending 700w 700g 600g 5 coss and you still can't break them if they aged up, that generally means the timing-based play wasn't worth it in the first place and you should've went spice trade into semi-FF or long term colonial vs fortress play. Of course, there are exceptions to this general rule. You can sometimes go for solid pressure from early colonial with crate cards as well as a timing after 5 coss, this can be worth it if spice trade would be too passive; against boom civs or semi-FFs, this may give them incentive to play more greedy (boom harder or age earlier) in which case the threat of your pressure and timing are enough to make it worth it for Russia to pass on the spice trade.

Russia is a civ that is happy with the TP meta. Their shipments in colonial are strong and important, and they don't have 3 vills to send so sending that 300w first is an easy choice to make. As far as chopping for a transition TP goes, Russia is quite comfortable with that as well. They will often have 2 TPs in early colonial and this is a pretty big deal considering the strength of their shipments.

14v vs 17v. Russia is one of the few civs where you have to choose beforehand how many vills you want to age up with. Their vill batches take twice as long to finish, so you can't say “simply age up when you have 800f”.
In the vast majority of cases, 14v is preferable. You're building early TPs which means many shipments, and getting your first couple of colonial shipments almost a full minute earlier is a huge deal. The threat of early rushes and/or fast timings is also something your opponent has to prepare for blindly if you went 14v, whereas against a 17v age up most civs are quite comfortable booming or even adapting into a quick semi-FF.
Though sometimes it's better to age with 17. I'd say this is only worth it if you have a 100w start, because in that case you will miss the early market unless you go 17v. Keep in mind though, that planning for a 17v age up will remove the possibility of food treasures speeding up your colonial time. And even with 100w starts, I would only consider 17v if I am up against a civ that has no way of abusing my late age up by booming, and also has no way of adapting into a fast semi-FF. Ports for example.


The Russian build

With 200w starts, go early market and age up with 14 vills unless you messed up badly enough that your TC would be idle for 20+ seconds. In that case simply make another batch. This applies whenever you decide to age with 14v.
With 100w+100c starts, 17v is a viable option. If you do that, still go early market and trade coin for wood first to get your house up in time.
With 100w and the rest food, a 14v age up would be preferable but 17v is possibly still viable in some match ups. In that case, still go early market but build the house first or you will be popped.
In the future I will assume you aged with 14 vills. In the case of 17v, your build changes slightly. Generally you will need to chop for a BH during transition and start building it earlier so that you're not extremely late with your first batch. When it comes to your build order options the rest is pretty much identical, but the way to play most match ups changes as well. I will not go into that any further than I already have for the sake of keeping it relatively simple.

(1) 300w. Build a TP from this and a market if you didn't have one yet. Don't gather for hunting dogs yet.

Age up with 400w, and chop for another TP as well as hunting dogs and placer mines.


The 700w build 50%

Generally you can stop chopping wood as soon as you queue placer mines and start gathering for your first musk and vill batch. Make sure you have enough gold for steel traps too. From the 400w, build a BH and get steel traps or a house. This depends on whether you can delay your military batch a bit (steel traps first) or you need it quickly (house first). Delay the other until 700w arrives.
(2) 700w. Build either a stable or a second BH from this, as well as houses and steel traps if you didn't have that yet. Using this wood for strelets is optional and can be viable, but keep in mind strelets cost 10 pop and cost wood, so this will probably cause pop trouble later. In that case you can choose not to build a second military building from this wood and play for an early infantry-based timing.

Generally:
(3) 700g (age up optional, although awkward)
(4) 600g (age up optional) or (4) 600w, depending on your need for houses.
(5) 5 coss for a timing or the remaining crate shipment (600w or 600g) for a longerterm plan or age up.

Alternatively, in case you went for early strelets:
(3) 600w. Building a stable optional.
(4) 5 coss for a timing or (4) 700g for more cav long term or an age up.

Going for fortress with this build is viable of course, but awkward since you're missing that eco card (spice trade) in colonial and you're going to need a good eco to upgrade all your units and still support a decent mass. In some situations though, following them up to fortress is the only possible choice and sometimes you still need those early crate cards to keep up with their mass in colonial while you both age up.


The 700g build 20%

This is a relatively quick musk-based timing to overwhelm your opponent in early colonial. It is the most aggressive viable option Russia has, but don't mistake it for a rush. The strength of this build is its early colonial efficiency: it gathers almost no gold making steel traps even stronger than it already would be, and it gathers just enough wood for houses while not getting too much of it (700w is too much, but worth it for the long term), making its 7 minute mass stronger than that of any other Russian build.
Considering this build goes for an early timing, consider not chopping for the second TP. This will hurt your timing but does help for long term follow ups, so it's a choice you should base on the match up and how much your timing is likely to gain from being slightly stronger in its unit count.

You're getting 2 blockhouses up early. This means 500w for BH's alone, so you're going to have to chop some wood for houses even with the 400w from age up. Note that early steel traps is vital, but you can skip placer mines for now.

(2) 700g
(3) 5 coss for the timing.
(4) 600g to age up or (4) 700w for prolonged colonial play.

Alternatively, if your timing is not likely to do much and you want to transition to a more ecofocused play instead of sending 5 coss:
(3) 700w
(4) 600w, (4) 600g (age up optional) or even (4) Spice trade for the long term.


The long term plan 30%

This build is strong but slow. It allows for very strong long term colonial play, and it allows Russia to follow their opponents into fortress without being too far behind in economy. However, Russia's semi-FF is still significantly more awkward than most civs' semi-FFs, and this can open them up to some scary timings or fortress contains. Even so, this is your best option in some match ups where colonial pressure has no real way of preventing your opponent from reaching fortress safely, giving you no option but to follow them up or set yourself up for a colonial vs fortress fight. In the latter case, starting spice trade is also your best option.

Chop for the second TP, market upgrades and the BH similar to the 700w build. However, keep gathering wood for a bit so you don't get housed. Keep in mind though that you will send 700w after ST, so don't overchop wood. A single house will be enough.

(2) Spice trade
(3) 700w. Build a stable from this and/or a second BH. You can also send (3) 700g and age up immediately for a quick semi-FF. This means your colonial mass will be negligible.
 (4) 700g (age up optional)
 (5) 600w or (5) 600g (age up optional)

If you find yourself in fortress, full strelet cossack with boyars and manchu (or CA) is a great composition to go for. Don't forget about boyars if you're in fortress, it's still one of your best cards to send as your army starts growing. Remember, 1000w and 1000g are great shipments.
My Tips of the Day and COMPSTOMP threads! Check out the ESOC Strategy Wall! :flowers:
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Poland pecelot
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21 Feb 2017, 23:10

My Tips of the Day and COMPSTOMP threads! Check out the ESOC Strategy Wall! :flowers:
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Germany yemshi
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22 Feb 2017, 05:30

Why on earth wouldn't you send 5 cossacks first?
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

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22 Feb 2017, 07:14

pecelot wrote:@ronsu :flowers:


Thanks! I knew this guide. It's always interesting to re-read it.
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22 Feb 2017, 07:18

yemshi wrote:Why on earth wouldn't you send 5 cossacks first?


5 coss are very good. But sometimes you want to secure a following military mass beyond the cav shipment and the first units. And then you realize that you have no food enough to keep in queu infantry + new vills at the same time.

I think that this is the reason to start with an economic (food) card and, then, ship the 5 cossacks. Of course, you can send 5 cossacks first and the economic card second... but i'm pretty sure you gonna have some idle TC or idle BH.
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Germany yemshi
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22 Feb 2017, 15:58

Spicetrade first is simply bad. And you'll always lack a resource early on. You can't effetively spend 700w as early on (unless you TP boom), lack food if you send 700c first and coin if you send food. 5 coss first is simply better in the majority of cases (but yeah, sometimes you might be right)
Garja wrote: Players on the RE are bad, laggers and they're lazy asses that would sell their mother for a couple of Elo points. It's not just my opinion, it's a fact (which I guess is the same thing, hence your confusion) that the EP is better.

Germany lordraphael
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22 Feb 2017, 16:08

russia isnt a civ that is happy with the tp meta :D Goodspeed ..............
breeze wrote:they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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22 Feb 2017, 16:09

Most or all highlevel Russiaplayers play it differently. Like Hazza wrote its mostly Distributism(wood trickle)-5 cos-700wood and then are more variations. Steeltraps with 400 age up wood or 700 wood shipment.
Greece tedere12
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22 Feb 2017, 16:14

all good players do 5 4 13 2 1 with russia
#FreeTheCheese
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Poland pecelot
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22 Feb 2017, 16:32

lordraphael wrote:russia isnt a civ that is happy with the tp meta :D Goodspeed ..............

ATP? :hmm:
My Tips of the Day and COMPSTOMP threads! Check out the ESOC Strategy Wall! :flowers:
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United States of America roiarthurbis
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22 Feb 2017, 16:33

Today it's time for the almighty Russians! Underpowered on RE, overpowered on EP? What do you think? Comment below :!:
by GoodSpeed :love:


underpowered huh... Also going on what was said above. 5 cossack is almost always the best shipment once you age with 14v. 17v age up is just bad on re maps and imo you lose eco by doing it as your shipments are later in age 2 = later 2nd bh later stable etc. With 5 coss instead of 700w you can either slow your enemies stable/rax, idle them and or kill a villager or 2. Which gives you time to start your mass and build up your infrastructure. If you don't pressure the enemy early you will risk them having a larger mass than you with better units. If that happens and they break your blockhouses the game is over basically.
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United States of America roiarthurbis
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22 Feb 2017, 16:34

LordCharlie_131 wrote:Most or all highlevel Russiaplayers play it differently. Like Hazza wrote its mostly Distributism(wood trickle)-5 cos-700wood and then are more variations. Steeltraps with 400 age up wood or 700 wood shipment.

That is possible with 400w, but usually you want to use it to build houses or strelets. 700w you can do steel traps or 2nd bh / stable or tp if possible.
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United States of America roiarthurbis
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22 Feb 2017, 16:37

tedere12 wrote:all good players do 5 4 13 2 1 with russia

Nope. I only send 4 and 13 if the enemy is trying to break my blockhouse or if I am doing a timing fight where I get 5 coss 5 musk / 10 stret out at the same time. If it's later in the match boyars is the better timing card.

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