Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

This is for discussions about the community, players, forum games, grudge matches, memes and everything else related to ESOC and its members.

How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

I enjoy their posts and I'm looking forward to more of their content!
43
41%
I do not enjoy their posts and content, I want them gone!
30
29%
I don't really care either way.
32
30%
 
Total votes: 105

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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

It's 50/50 basically on yes or no, and I would say the no case is more strongly phrased than the yes case. Even then, the posts that annoy people, maybe not to the point where you'd like to see them gone but still, those posts warrant some sort of feedback towards the basement. If they aren't trolls you'd expect them to somehow listen to this feedback. I'd estimate they're at 50 warnings and 10 bans of varying lengths, and nothing has changed. So in the case that you're annoying half of the community to the point that they'd rather see you banned, and you show no willingness to ever improve this behaviour, then I don't see why a long ban isn't the right thing to do.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Goodspeed »

TIL 18/48 is half.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

I think that, from my perspective, there is a certain prejudice towards basement members, particularly from our Dutch friends, Jerom and Bram. It was almost immediately when The Ear came back on the forum that my inbox was suddenly filled with Reports coming from them for the Ear's posts. Whilst I don't doubt these were bad posts, we are a community. What a community, especially on the forums, is come to talk to one another. ESOC whether people like it or not is social media really. In that context can we really say that posts are "not worthy of the site" etc. I'm not talking about posts that blatantly disrespect the rules of course, but I'm not so sure that all of the posts reported were really bad posts.

That said the basement has had a history of rule-breaking, but I think that most of the times it's really not as bad as it seems. I can safely say however that this has been going back and forth; it's a two-way street. Both sides have been acting very childish towards one another - and it's not really helping the situation.

I would say that I would look forward to the basement posts, after all the basement is another community with different insights. It's very interesting to know and understand what it is like in different cultures and perspectives.

I would say taking any form of action against the basement that is beyond what we usually do for the community would be silly - there is already enough drama surrounding the subject. Perhaps we should implement the 3-strike rule, I like that idea. It is pretty similar to the warning system already in place.

As for deciding the quality of the posts I dont think we will ever reach a consensus. Perhaps I think there should be a few guidelines;
- No blatant trolling
- No swearing (sorry XeeleeFlower!)
- No terrible accusations (i.e. X is the founder of ISIS)
- No short-answer silly-worded comments (I think Ear said, "Anyone who doesn't like AC is a dope!", Obviously people who live in colder countries are dopes?)
- No bullying (I'm with Xeelee on this one too
- No blatant insults (Keep that to pms)

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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:TIL 18/48 is half.

Well I'm not really counting the I don't care option, kinda see it as in "I don't read their posts". But the poll is rather poorly phrased.

Even then, 1/3 is also grounds to ban them.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Vinyanyérë »

XeeleeFlower wrote: Define low quality. Is just one sentence low quality? Is it the content of the post? Should each post that any member make be lengthy and/or insightful/philosophical? We are a community. We are a small community. We discuss heavy topics, and we discuss mundane topics. Who decides what is a high quality mundane topic? What about a low quality deep topic? These questions are rhetorical. Does this mean that this is a low quality post?


"Low quality" in this specific context means "whichever ones XeeleeFlower, Dolan, aligator92, and gh0st were talking about". I'm making an effort not to apply a definition of my own.

XeeleeFlower wrote: Why? It seems a bit unfair to limit the amount of posts that users can make. I don't like this idea at all.


It's one of multiple different ways to address what seems to be a commonly-raised concern.

XeeleeFlower wrote:Here ... :flowers:


WRT the Basement then, am I understanding you correctly that what you'd like to see them unbanned and allowed to post as normal, except that they should, as all other users, be kept from bullying others?
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Goodspeed »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think that, from my perspective, there is a certain prejudice towards basement members, particularly from our Dutch friends, Jerom and Bram. It was almost immediately when The Ear came back on the forum that my inbox was suddenly filled with Reports coming from them for the Ear's posts. Whilst I don't doubt these were bad posts, we are a community. What a community, especially on the forums, is come to talk to one another. ESOC whether people like it or not is social media really. In that context can we really say that posts are "not worthy of the site" etc. I'm not talking about posts that blatantly disrespect the rules of course, but I'm not so sure that all of the posts reported were really bad posts.
This is what it mostly comes down to. What is a quality post? I think members of this community have wildly differing standards.
Imo when a post is not reported, there is no need for moderators to get involved. With that as a guideline the community is effectively policing itself. Bonus: It's a load off the mods.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

I usually just leave them but I read the comments they say about the posts. Unless it needs to be removed immediately.
Ultimately most of this is up to the community team and how they feel about the post.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think that, from my perspective, there is a certain prejudice towards basement members, particularly from our Dutch friends, Jerom and Bram. It was almost immediately when The Ear came back on the forum that my inbox was suddenly filled with Reports coming from them for the Ear's posts. Whilst I don't doubt these were bad posts, we are a community. What a community, especially on the forums, is come to talk to one another. ESOC whether people like it or not is social media really. In that context can we really say that posts are "not worthy of the site" etc. I'm not talking about posts that blatantly disrespect the rules of course, but I'm not so sure that all of the posts reported were really bad posts.

This feels rather disrespectful. I report tons of posts, but you seem biased enough to decide that I only report the ear's post. The influx of reports is because I hate wasting my time skimming through the pile of shit, produced by the basement, that's making actual content harder to find. And that being said, bram and me aren't moderators and I'm not even a staff member, AND back when I was a moderator I didnt even moderate any of the basement stuff because I didnt want to.

They literally made up the story that we were biased, they even made up that I was moderating them or banning them, they turned it into a staff vs basement and "oh we were treated so unfairly" because they're trolls. If you're warned 5 times and then banned a week and then warned a bunch of times and then eventually banned a month and then warned even more and get banned 3 months and then warned more and then get banned longer but then some staff members take over, undo the ban and then this entire story of a bunch of warnings and a short ban into what we have no repeats, then I do not see how they have been treated unfairly. That's beyond ridiculous.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Gendarme »

"Bullying" is not a problem. An ignore-function should be enough for anyone who feels "bullied" (if there is no ignore function, implement one). Banning people who joke around with each other because there is a zero-tolerance for "bullying" is cancerous to say the least. I suppose technically it is possible to bully people through the internet with believable threats (e.g. "I have tracked down your IP and I know your name and age, so I will find you and beat you until you bleed from your ears.") but this hasn't happened and will probably never happen. If there is no threat of violence, simply ignoring the annoying person (something you cannot necessarily do in real-life) is a sufficient counter.

You are perhaps thinking of instances where people are offended and call it bullying. Usually when you are offended, it is because you take offense too easily and have yourself to blame. Most here would not give a damn if I insulted them, and rightly so - but some would, and these people probably have just not (yet) learned the art of not being a pussies. There is nothing necessarily wrong with being a pussy, but there is certainly something wrong with banning people because pussies get offended. Of course, if someone is being nothing but toxic, he is not someone we want on the forums, but it is nothing more than a form of constant shitposting and should be treated as such. The reason people from The Basement are bringing up received insults is to point out what they see as hypocrisy (i.e. they get banned when they insult but members of the staff don't) - they are actually seasoned internet-users and are unoffendable.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Gendarme »

Goodspeed wrote:This is what it mostly comes down to. What is a quality post? I think members of this community have wildly differing standards.
Let's implement a downvote button!
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by kami_ryu »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Jerom wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think that, from my perspective, there is a certain prejudice towards basement members, particularly from our Dutch friends, Jerom and Bram. It was almost immediately when The Ear came back on the forum that my inbox was suddenly filled with Reports coming from them for the Ear's posts. Whilst I don't doubt these were bad posts, we are a community. What a community, especially on the forums, is come to talk to one another. ESOC whether people like it or not is social media really. In that context can we really say that posts are "not worthy of the site" etc. I'm not talking about posts that blatantly disrespect the rules of course, but I'm not so sure that all of the posts reported were really bad posts.

This feels rather disrespectful. I report tons of posts, but you seem biased enough to decide that I only report the ear's post. The influx of reports is because I hate wasting my time skimming through the pile of shit, produced by the basement, that's making actual content harder to find. And that being said, bram and me aren't moderators and I'm not even a staff member, AND back when I was a moderator I didnt even moderate any of the basement stuff because I didnt want to.

They literally made up the story that we were biased, they even made up that I was moderating them or banning them, they turned it into a staff vs basement and "oh we were treated so unfairly" because they're trolls. If you're warned 5 times and then banned a week and then warned a bunch of times and then eventually banned a month and then warned even more and get banned 3 months and then warned more and then get banned longer but then some staff members take over, undo the ban and then this entire story of a bunch of warnings and a short ban into what we have no repeats, then I do not see how they have been treated unfairly. That's beyond ridiculous.


Thats really what comes with being a community team member is having to go through them all. It seems you have proven myself right in the bais. You don't have to report a post or even read it of you don't want to. That said given your history with the basement I dont blame you and frankly there is fault on both sides here.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by XeeleeFlower »

Vinyanenya wrote:"Low quality" in this specific context means "whichever ones XeeleeFlower, Dolan, aligator92, and gh0st were talking about". I'm making an effort not to apply a definition of my own.
I cannot really apply a definition to low quality posts either. It's really quite subjective. For me, I think that any post has the potential to be a springboard for discussion. Whether or not that is utilized is up to the community. :smile:

WRT the Basement then, am I understanding you correctly that what you'd like to see them unbanned and allowed to post as normal, except that they should, as all other users, be kept from bullying others?
Yes. I would even go further and say that all bans should be lifted and rules be reevaluated.

JakeyBoyTH wrote: No swearing (sorry XeeleeFlower!)
I would seriously never talk nor post then. Swearing is an integral part of my vocabulary. Besides, if people can handle seeing units get massacred (no more tournaments!), discuss heavy topics (delete off topic!), post and watch sexy videos (get rid of the music thread!), what is the harm in "bad" words? :flowers:
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by spanky4ever »

Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:TIL 18/48 is half.

Well I'm not really counting the I don't care option, kinda see it as in "I don't read their posts". But the poll is rather poorly phrased.

Even then, 1/3 is also grounds to ban them.

One should not trow stones, when living in a house of glass. Would you say that all your 11600 posts where of quality? and no insults going on there? no threats of any kind? no unnecessarily salty remarks?
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

XeeleeFlower wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote: No swearing (sorry XeeleeFlower!)
I would seriously never talk nor post then. Swearing is an integral part of my vocabulary. Besides, if people can handle seeing units get massacred (no more tournaments!), discuss heavy topics (delete off topic!), post and watch sexy videos (get rid of the music thread!), what is the harm in "bad" words? :flowers:


Haha :)

Well maybe this is a silly idea. Perhaps just in a non-offensive way.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

iwillspankyou wrote:
Jerom wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:TIL 18/48 is half.

Well I'm not really counting the I don't care option, kinda see it as in "I don't read their posts". But the poll is rather poorly phrased.

Even then, 1/3 is also grounds to ban them.

One should not trow stones, when living in a house of glass. Would you say that all your 11600 posts where of quality? and no insults going on there? no threats of any kind? no unnecessarily salty remarks?

Or your posts? No poster makes 100% constructive posts all the time, but few people here spam on purpose, and I think most people try to adjust their behaviour after moderator feedback.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by aligator92 »

Gendarme wrote:"Bullying" is not a problem. etc.

since you proposed this. Dislike
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:
Jerom wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:I think that, from my perspective, there is a certain prejudice towards basement members, particularly from our Dutch friends, Jerom and Bram. It was almost immediately when The Ear came back on the forum that my inbox was suddenly filled with Reports coming from them for the Ear's posts. Whilst I don't doubt these were bad posts, we are a community. What a community, especially on the forums, is come to talk to one another. ESOC whether people like it or not is social media really. In that context can we really say that posts are "not worthy of the site" etc. I'm not talking about posts that blatantly disrespect the rules of course, but I'm not so sure that all of the posts reported were really bad posts.

This feels rather disrespectful. I report tons of posts, but you seem biased enough to decide that I only report the ear's post. The influx of reports is because I hate wasting my time skimming through the pile of shit, produced by the basement, that's making actual content harder to find. And that being said, bram and me aren't moderators and I'm not even a staff member, AND back when I was a moderator I didnt even moderate any of the basement stuff because I didnt want to.

They literally made up the story that we were biased, they even made up that I was moderating them or banning them, they turned it into a staff vs basement and "oh we were treated so unfairly" because they're trolls. If you're warned 5 times and then banned a week and then warned a bunch of times and then eventually banned a month and then warned even more and get banned 3 months and then warned more and then get banned longer but then some staff members take over, undo the ban and then this entire story of a bunch of warnings and a short ban into what we have no repeats, then I do not see how they have been treated unfairly. That's beyond ridiculous.


Thats really what comes with being a community team member is having to go through them all. It seems you have proven myself right in the bais. You don't have to report a post or even read it of you don't want to. That said given your history with the basement I dont blame you and frankly there is fault on both sides here.

You didnt get the point. If I try to go to esoc and 50% of the threads are of depressingly low quality then I will not feel motivated to read the forums much more. I post much and much less than before and thats mostly because over half of the threads just quickly devolve into a spamfest.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by sebnan12 »

u guys are so childish xD.. u dont give a fuk in real life either if someone dowsnt like u and keeps talking shit ^^.. why would u take it serious here! jesus christ some people got nothing better to do really..
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

sebnan12 wrote:u guys are so childish xD.. u dont give a fuk in real life either if someone dowsnt like u and keeps talking shit ^^.. why would u take it serious here! jesus christ some people got nothing better to do really..

Because in real life those people aren't people you have to deal with while on the forums they spam shit that you have to then try to get around. It's like someone's continuously standing in the middle of a conversation with a friend screaming random bullshit to disrupt the conversation.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by spanky4ever »

@momuuu said:
Or your posts? No poster makes 100% constructive posts all the time, but few people here spam on purpose, and I think most people try to adjust their behaviour after moderator feedback.


could well be that there are some posts of mine that are not well thought trough enough, and maybe there are posts I wish I didnt make, but seriously Jerom - I am not the one who calls for ppl to be banned though :P
Just give ppl some slack, thats all I am saying, and dont have more restrictive standards for other, than you apply to yourself. Just live and let live, and we will surely cope with the basement guys contribution to our community.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

You're also not the one being called the founder of ISIS.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by Goodspeed »

Jerom wrote:
sebnan12 wrote:u guys are so childish xD.. u dont give a fuk in real life either if someone dowsnt like u and keeps talking shit ^^.. why would u take it serious here! jesus christ some people got nothing better to do really..

Because in real life those people aren't people you have to deal with while on the forums they spam shit that you have to then try to get around. It's like someone's continuously standing in the middle of a conversation with a friend screaming random bullshit to disrupt the conversation.
Or every thread is a separate room which you don't have to get into if you don't want to. The title and name of the OP are on the door.
See it's not quite as disruptive as it would be irl. It's very easy to ignore people on the internet.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

Post by momuuu »

I find it hard to just guess what threads are good though, it pushes down threads I might want to read in the unread post section too, so I find my analogy better. It's rather disruptive if someone is posting non content.
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Re: Poll: How do you feel about The Basement's posts on ESOC forums?

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I like reading duck's discretion like duck likes writing discretion.

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