Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
The optimism of some could be accompanied by some realism imo. Winter did well compared to spring but thats in the past too. Theres a severe lack of good casters right now that have a smooth accent, good casting skills and actual game knowledge to the point where theyre saying reasonable things. The streams lately dont seem to get many viewers. For me the quality of esoctv has dropped to a point where I dont specifically tune in for it anymore; all streams atm are basically random and unannounced for me, I generally mute the casting and it feels like less than half of the time there are actually two evenly matched high level players playing. The tournaments dont really feel hyped anymore for me. Maybe there have been too many recently, maybe its because there are so many forfeits, maybe because there are no hype newsposts, I just dont feel it anymore personally.
The forums themselves never lived up to my expectation. At the start it seemed like a great strategy hub, with all the pros gathered giving advice. In the end strategy threads ended up feeling like some pointless discussion/ego war between the top players rather than a constructive strategic discussion in which both parties try to productively think about strategy. Combine that with endless sprees of blatant trolling, first only in off topic but in the past year every serious topic evrntually gets taken over by nonsense posts, and the forum to me isnt even worth reading most of the time. As a non official forum, we dont get many threads from new players asking for basic help, so esoc's main point of aoe3 discussion is more in depth strategy discussion and community discussion. Somehow, in my eyes possibly because moderation and the staff never made this the goal, strategy discussion is hardly present. For how many good players this community has, its almost unreal how empty the strategy wall is. Community discussion has never seemed positive to me. If you enjoy the smack talking and drama esoc can be fun, but that is only for a niche group. Meanwhile off topic isnt a place where the community has fum discussions and where you get to know others but rather a place where random polls and threads with no content live together with political discussion threads that are being spammed amd overtaken by trolls like legend. This is just my opinion but to me it seems the forum in its current state does not have much to offer to players interested in discussing the game aoe3 itself. Imperial Noob pointed out the content is produced by a small number of individuals. That doesnt seem sustainable to me. I have basically stopped posting amd so has incog, relatively. Together we have 10% of the posts. If a few more big posters stop contributing you lose of ton of daily posts that are hard to find replacement for. Interestingly enough Ive not seen a stat about forum posts or activity. Yes viewercounts grow, but thats because there are just more streams. Overall it appears to me that the absolute amount of people that actually feel involved with the forums, the tournaments and eso is declining.
Note this is an impression. You may disagree but to me esoc is dead. And yes theres a lot of disappointment in my post, because I expected and hoped that esoc would be much greater.
The forums themselves never lived up to my expectation. At the start it seemed like a great strategy hub, with all the pros gathered giving advice. In the end strategy threads ended up feeling like some pointless discussion/ego war between the top players rather than a constructive strategic discussion in which both parties try to productively think about strategy. Combine that with endless sprees of blatant trolling, first only in off topic but in the past year every serious topic evrntually gets taken over by nonsense posts, and the forum to me isnt even worth reading most of the time. As a non official forum, we dont get many threads from new players asking for basic help, so esoc's main point of aoe3 discussion is more in depth strategy discussion and community discussion. Somehow, in my eyes possibly because moderation and the staff never made this the goal, strategy discussion is hardly present. For how many good players this community has, its almost unreal how empty the strategy wall is. Community discussion has never seemed positive to me. If you enjoy the smack talking and drama esoc can be fun, but that is only for a niche group. Meanwhile off topic isnt a place where the community has fum discussions and where you get to know others but rather a place where random polls and threads with no content live together with political discussion threads that are being spammed amd overtaken by trolls like legend. This is just my opinion but to me it seems the forum in its current state does not have much to offer to players interested in discussing the game aoe3 itself. Imperial Noob pointed out the content is produced by a small number of individuals. That doesnt seem sustainable to me. I have basically stopped posting amd so has incog, relatively. Together we have 10% of the posts. If a few more big posters stop contributing you lose of ton of daily posts that are hard to find replacement for. Interestingly enough Ive not seen a stat about forum posts or activity. Yes viewercounts grow, but thats because there are just more streams. Overall it appears to me that the absolute amount of people that actually feel involved with the forums, the tournaments and eso is declining.
Note this is an impression. You may disagree but to me esoc is dead. And yes theres a lot of disappointment in my post, because I expected and hoped that esoc would be much greater.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
I appreciate the criticism and I agree with you on the deterioration of the stream quality. Unfortunately, it's not just a case of kicking everyone but 5 good streamers and fixing the problem. I am doing my best to educate all streamers and casters on what they could do better, but it's going to take a long time and I'm in no position to solo cast the entire tournament. I think the trolling on the forums has been largely undermined by the community team in the past few months.
I believe in the forums and I am sure we can revive it together. It would be great if top players started sharing their strategies and game knowledge more. Unlike other games, we don't have any top level players who stream often, which is bad for the game. Even if the total amount of people visiting the forums has dropped, I'm positive we haven't reached the point of no return yet!
I believe in the forums and I am sure we can revive it together. It would be great if top players started sharing their strategies and game knowledge more. Unlike other games, we don't have any top level players who stream often, which is bad for the game. Even if the total amount of people visiting the forums has dropped, I'm positive we haven't reached the point of no return yet!
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
pecelot wrote:No problem — I've got you covered, buddy!
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I've only joined and left twice. Others have done so more than me. Cmon now
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Mr_Bramboy wrote:I am doing my best to educate all streamers and casters on what they could do better, but it's going to take a long time and I'm in no position to solo cast the entire tournament.
Damn, you must have a really solid experience as a caster to write this
Mr_Bramboy wrote:Unlike other games, we don't have any top level players who stream often
We do
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Kaiserklein wrote:Mr_Bramboy wrote:I am doing my best to educate all streamers and casters on what they could do better, but it's going to take a long time and I'm in no position to solo cast the entire tournament.
Damn, you must have a really solid experience as a caster to write thisMr_Bramboy wrote:Unlike other games, we don't have any top level players who stream often
We do
I do have a lot of experience in both casting and observing AoE3 matches, yes. I've been closely involved in ESOC casting since Winter 2015 so I think I can safely say I know my shit.
I don't cast often nowadays because I dislike it. It feels awkward to talk to my screen while watching a game. Just not my cup of tea, but I'm glad others do like casting!
When I refer to top player, I am referring to the best of the best. Byun, the SC2 world champion, regularly streams and shares his builds, and so do other Korean pro players. Having a few pr30s if not the same as a handful of pr40s.
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
The biggest problem we have had has been with the cheaters. I used to find asian players in qs frequently in non European times but it seems dyd is the only one left of them now. From 2GMT onwards it feels like there is literally nobody to play with
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Lack of good casters? - Sure, some good casters are gone, but there are many decents ones left. Go and cast yourself, be a good caster.
No strategy guides? - Average players do not know what's up and good players don't write guides because other good players have a different view. It has been like that for years. If you do not understand something, make a thread and people will answer.
Not much really changed since the early days of ESOC, so I don't know why you say ESOC has problems. Same seasonal tournaments with big weekend streams (now with bigger prizes) and some small tournaments, same streams with 40-50 viewers with same people in the chat, same threads about Japan being lame, same people playing, going away and returning. The only thing that really lacks is the weekly Saturday Smackdown, the best AoE3 event that ever existed.
Just like any other dead game (I see the same thing happening in the HoMM3 scene) AoE3 is more of a subculture rather than a game.
No strategy guides? - Average players do not know what's up and good players don't write guides because other good players have a different view. It has been like that for years. If you do not understand something, make a thread and people will answer.
Not much really changed since the early days of ESOC, so I don't know why you say ESOC has problems. Same seasonal tournaments with big weekend streams (now with bigger prizes) and some small tournaments, same streams with 40-50 viewers with same people in the chat, same threads about Japan being lame, same people playing, going away and returning. The only thing that really lacks is the weekly Saturday Smackdown, the best AoE3 event that ever existed.
Just like any other dead game (I see the same thing happening in the HoMM3 scene) AoE3 is more of a subculture rather than a game.
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Yes yurashic pointed out well. Actually i feel sircallen jerom or imperialnoob. If you stay long in something old events come sweeter, excitement of first big tournaments your hype etc. But aoe3 is a subculture indeed even umeu dont play so much he writes here teachs people people mock each other. Breeze and jakeboy open polls make jokes these are niche to this forum, it is just what is. I will miss these moments when years will pass i feel it. Of course it can be better but if you were new like me you would like this forum. Maybe uears later i will also say forum is going bad who knows!
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
HUMMAN wrote:Yes yurashic pointed out well. Actually i feel sircallen jerom or imperialnoob. If you stay long in something old events come sweeter, excitement of first big tournaments your hype etc. But aoe3 is a subculture indeed even umeu dont play so much he writes here teachs people people mock each other. Breeze and jakeboy open polls make jokes these are niche to this forum, it is just what is. I will miss these moments when years will pass i feel it. Of course it can be better but if you were new like me you would like this forum. Maybe uears later i will also say forum is going bad who knows!
omg I love you <3 thank you for saying my bad jokes are niche.
Advanced Wonders suck
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
We have a lot of good casters. We don't have a lot of great casters. Interjection, ZutaZuta, _H2O — all of whom I consider some of the best casters — have been less and less active each tournament.yurashic wrote:Lack of good casters? - Sure, some good casters are gone, but there are many decents ones left. Go and cast yourself, be a good caster.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
dis game ded
come play cs go
come play cs go
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
many good points have been made, and I dont have any to add. But my impression is that Esoc are doing fine, even though we miss our super casters (@Veni_Vidi_Vici_W , @Zutazuta , @Interjection , @_H2O ) I hope some of those will come back and be more active again. Even so, we have new ones - AND many of them!!, and I am greatfull to them all. The new generation, sort of speak
Could B that off topic was more exiting in the past, I have not checked it out so much lately.
If the numbers of tournaments, and new casters are an indicator of how well esoc are doing, I would say: very well thank you.
Here is some flowers to all of you that makes the weels turn around for ESOC
Could B that off topic was more exiting in the past, I have not checked it out so much lately.
If the numbers of tournaments, and new casters are an indicator of how well esoc are doing, I would say: very well thank you.
Here is some flowers to all of you that makes the weels turn around for ESOC
Hippocrits are the worst of animals. I love elifants.
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
"What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger"
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
I kinda agree with Jerom. It's also my impression that all that bustle that surrounded the tourneys has tapered off and ESOC is slightly deserted now.
It could also be that adding the AOEO section to the site estranged AOE3-ers to some extent. I'm sure it estranged off-topic regulars, especially since the section is harder to access now. Not to mention it already had been a clusterfuck to browse even before adding the AOEO section. Win some, lose some. This could have been handled better, because there is very little crosstalk between these two communities.
My prediction is, in the long term, the off-topic section will be the last one still standing after the others will become deserted, much like how it happened over at RTS Sanct.
It could also be that adding the AOEO section to the site estranged AOE3-ers to some extent. I'm sure it estranged off-topic regulars, especially since the section is harder to access now. Not to mention it already had been a clusterfuck to browse even before adding the AOEO section. Win some, lose some. This could have been handled better, because there is very little crosstalk between these two communities.
My prediction is, in the long term, the off-topic section will be the last one still standing after the others will become deserted, much like how it happened over at RTS Sanct.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Off topic is more representative of trolls' well being than ESOC's well being.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
my respond always: "thank you for the compliment"
Advanced Wonders suck
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
my respond always: "thank you for the compliment"
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
deleted_user wrote:my respond always: "thank you for the compliment"
It's a great thing for you to say.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
deleted_user wrote:Off topic is more representative of trolls' well being than ESOC's well being.
The irony isn't lost here.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
The irony is the entire point, my Monsieur Bramboy.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Mr_Bramboy wrote:
When I refer to top player, I am referring to the best of the best. Byun, the SC2 world champion, regularly streams and shares his builds, and so do other Korean pro players. Having a few pr30s if not the same as a handful of pr40s.
To be honest the only top starcraft players that stream regularly are soO and Byun, and they show just ladder games without using their tournament strategies. Most pro's don't stream because showing tournament strategies (which they're practicing), or even showing your practice partner is dumb for obvious reasons. If any pro here in ESOC has a new build which can be used in tournaments for wins, why share it until then?
And I don't feel like the lack of pro's sharing their strategies is a loss for ESOC at all, just as it isn't in other games, as people can just watch a video, download a rec and see all the strategies that they want.
Just pointing out that not having the best players stream regularly isn't a reason that the ESOC viewer numbers are low, if anything its a result.
Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
Timba wrote:What sorts of things can we do to help keep the community 'healthy'?
I realise that this question was way too broad, so I'll try to be more specific:
Would more streams be better? Or should there be a focus on increasing the quality of current streams?
What about casters? More, or better quality?
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
I can't see any meaningful conclusions being drawn from the results of this poll. I guess the most the staff could glean would be people's feelings at this particular moment concerning ESOC. Perhaps you actually sat down and weighed different factors you think are important to the health of the community. Or maybe you're still dwelling on the latest insult you received from another community member and answered out of spite. The poll seems to be more a gauge of the website's approval rating at this particular moment rather than an honest attempt to gauge the website/community's health.
That being said much of the discussion seems to have been far more meaningful. A few people have brought up concerns about trolls ruining discussion and moderators letting things get out of hand. ESOC suffers from the same problem that affects most websites that have comments sections or forum-based discussion. However, there are some sites, like stackoverflow, that have schemes to reduce and weed out trolls and irrelevant discussion. Perhaps ESOC could imitate some of these practices, if only for some sections of the forums, such as the strategy section.
That being said much of the discussion seems to have been far more meaningful. A few people have brought up concerns about trolls ruining discussion and moderators letting things get out of hand. ESOC suffers from the same problem that affects most websites that have comments sections or forum-based discussion. However, there are some sites, like stackoverflow, that have schemes to reduce and weed out trolls and irrelevant discussion. Perhaps ESOC could imitate some of these practices, if only for some sections of the forums, such as the strategy section.
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Re: Poll: How is ESOC's Health?
You misunderstand. Most people here seem to be of the opinion we need more trolls, that the website becomes too stale without them, that off topic is the life blood of ESOC, and that the moderation team is much, much too strict.
I am in no way endorsing the above opinion but it really is a question, amongst the community, of whether mods are doing too much rather than too little.
I am in no way endorsing the above opinion but it really is a question, amongst the community, of whether mods are doing too much rather than too little.
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