Gender Issues and Poll

This is for discussions about the community, players, forum games, grudge matches, memes and everything else related to ESOC and its members.

Gender?

Male
37
76%
Female
5
10%
Bigender
0
No votes
Genderfluid
2
4%
Non-Binary
2
4%
Transgender (M->F)
2
4%
Transgender (F->M)
1
2%
 
Total votes: 49

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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Gendarme »

Goodspeed wrote:I think on average women are less into games in general, including video games. Especially video games because they require a larger investment of money (hardware) and, generally, time.
I don't think it has anything to do with time and money. Video games are simply not appealing to women as much as they are to men probably in the same way that watching and following football is more appealing to men than women. Video games are probably even more "manly" than football as I think the proportion of women interested in football larger than in video games, but that's not really relevant anyway. I wonder why video games are more appealing to men. While I can come up with a hypothesis, I am not sure if that's all there is to it. In other words, when I list all the things that are appealing with video games that I can come up with, I see that those things are more important to men than women, however I can't say that I am certain that my list is complete.

Jerom wrote:I don't actually think I know a female in real life that's a serious gamer
Well, the set of people that you know is not an accurate representation of women in general (and neither of men in general). It is very possible that the men in your social circle are more susceptible to the appeal of video games than men in general, and the women in your social circle are less susceptible. While I do think that the number of female gamers are a lot lower than that of male gamers, I think a shallow analysis of personal experience is insufficient to give an idea of whether 10% is accurate or not.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Goodspeed »

Gendarme wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:I think on average women are less into games in general, including video games. Especially video games because they require a larger investment of money (hardware) and, generally, time.
I don't think it has anything to do with time and money. Video games are simply not appealing to women as much as they are to men probably in the same way that watching and following football is more appealing to men than women. Video games are probably even more "manly" than football as I think the proportion of women interested in football larger than in video games, but that's not really relevant anyway. I wonder why video games are more appealing to men. While I can come up with a hypothesis, I am not sure if that's all there is to it. In other words, when I list all the things that are appealing with video games that I can come up with, I see that those things are more important to men than women, however I can't say that I am certain that my list is complete.
My point was that there's a larger threshold to get into video gaming as opposed to other games. And because women are less into games in general, even less will get into video games. Therefore the question imo is not why video games are more appealing to men, but why games are more appealing to men.
Probably because men are typically more competitive. Makes evolutionary sense.
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by HUMMAN »

Men are also more salty 21
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Laurence Drake »

HUMMAN wrote:Men are also more salty 21

:hmm:
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by lordraphael »

I also dont See why women would wanna Play aoe More compared to fps. Im at a college where 70 -80 % of The fellow students Are female.in History class however its 50 50.
Furthermore men Are More interested in video Games than women. Socialisation der plays a big role, but im also convinced that even if both boys and girls would ne socialized The Same,More men would Play Games. Because despite what feminists or gender debates wanna tell You. Men and women have different traits based on genetics and im not talking about physical ones.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Sweden Gendarme
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Gendarme »

lordraphael wrote:Men and women have different traits based on genetics and im not talking about physical ones.
Uh oh. Shitstorm incoming in 3...2...1...
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Norway aqwer
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by aqwer »

lordraphael wrote: Because despite what feminists or gender debates wanna tell You. Men and women have different traits based on genetics and im not talking about physical ones.


Couldn't agree more.....
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Imperial Noob »

Men look for the answer to "how possibly good?" (to be the alpha, pass on genes)
Women look for the answer to "how good is enough?" (to classify as female, pass on genes)

retarded variation of this can be observed in video games:
Men will race over the littlest pixel, women will contend with the littlest pixel
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France bwinner
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by bwinner »

Jerom wrote:I'd say 10% is way too high based on my experiences in both aoe3 and real life. I don't actually think I know a female in real life that's a serious gamer (like pr 20+ serious).

Well, do you know a lot of aoe pr20+ irl (without counting those you met in aoe) ? I never met anyone for the 1st time irl who was a pr20+ aoe player... not even a pr10+ I think...
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Netherlands momuuu
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by momuuu »

bwinner1 wrote:
Jerom wrote:I'd say 10% is way too high based on my experiences in both aoe3 and real life. I don't actually think I know a female in real life that's a serious gamer (like pr 20+ serious).

Well, do you know a lot of aoe pr20+ irl (without counting those you met in aoe) ? I never met anyone for the 1st time irl who was a pr20+ aoe player... not even a pr10+ I think...

'Pr20+ serious' means a somewhat dedicated gamer, not that the person is pr20 in aoe. Like when I game its regularly to the extend that I get to something equivalent to pr20 in most games I think. Its not like gaming a few hours per month.
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Gendarme »

Goodspeed wrote:Probably because men are typically more competitive. Makes evolutionary sense.
Sure, but there are non-competitive games as well (e.g. the Arkham series). I think it's mostly about the feelings the game is designed to give you that are inherently more appealing to men than women. Solving a hard puzzle (e.g. The Talos Principle, chess), feeling powerful (e.g. being fed in a MOBA, killing an army of strelets with your cuirassiers), being part of a team (e.g. playing in/supporting a football team) among many other things are more appealing to men precisely for evolutionary reasons.

If we do not only regard games and look at Facebook and Instagram for example, we can see that they are appealing to women as well. The feeling of popularity/appreciation/etc. you get through constant notifications, comments, and likes are appealing to both.

Some games such as FPS's are very limited in the way you can play them and thus have a hard time attracting more types of people than the main target audience. World of Warcraft is a good example of a game that can be enjoyed in a number of different ways. There are probably not a lot of females in the competitive PvP scene of WoW, but there are probably quite some people who play the game casually by being interested in the story, exploring the game-world, or simply just flying above mountains enjoying the beautiful world from above - and a surprisingly large number of them may be females (although surprisingly large does not mean anywhere close to 50%).
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Netherlands blackwidow
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by blackwidow »

gibson wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:
gibson wrote:Probably less than 10%. Pubg has like 3% female and I don't see why aoe would be more attractive
Completely different genre. Maybe women don't appreciate FPS as much as men. But where are you getting the 3% from?
10% does sound like a lot, but I'd think it's more than 3.
A survey taken by aprox 9k players


:hmm:
Germany lordraphael
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by lordraphael »

blackwidow wrote:
gibson wrote:
Show hidden quotes
A survey taken by aprox 9k players


:hmm:

id ocnsider a survey of 9 k people as fairly representative. THere have been drawn conclusions about a much bigger audience with far less samples
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by gibson »

lordraphael wrote:
blackwidow wrote:
Show hidden quotes


:hmm:

id ocnsider a survey of 9 k people as fairly representative. THere have been drawn conclusions about a much bigger audience with far less samples
Yea 9k is way way way more than enough. The main issue is gonna be it was distributed on reddit, so that could potentially skew it a bit
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by XeeleeFlower »

XeeleeFlower wrote:Based upon the ratio of people that I know that play, I would say that approximately 10% of the players are female.


I suppose I wasn't clear here. I was simply saying that out of all the people that I know that play, approximately 1 out of 10 of them are female. I'm not trying to imply that this is the accurate percentage of all the people that play AOE, just my personal, subjective experience. Of course, some of these females may actually be males. One never can know for sure due to anonymity. I could be a male! I recognize that my subjective experience cannot be used for an objective analysis. I apologize for the confusion. My wording was a little strange.

I'll have to come back to tackle the rest of this thread later. A bit preoccupied right now.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Goodspeed »

Gendarme wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:Probably because men are typically more competitive. Makes evolutionary sense.
Sure, but there are non-competitive games as well (e.g. the Arkham series).
Maybe such games are more appealing to men simply because they're games, and most women aren't interested in it based on that alone? Speculating here, but it may very well be that if you got a sample of 50 men and 50 women playing Arkham horror, an equal amount of both genders would like the game. I personally thought it was quite boring (my entire friends group did), which was disappointing because it came highly recommended by the store owner. He never could shut up about it. Anyway point is that among males there will be many who are not into it precisely because it isn't competitive... Or even features any real game play at all. Basically you're just throwing a bunch of dice and moving stuff around. Don't even get me started about this game lol. I'm still salty.
I think it's mostly about the feelings the game is designed to give you that are inherently more appealing to men than women. Solving a hard puzzle
I don't know about this one. In my experience women aren't less into puzzles than men.
feeling powerful
Sure but this is directly linked to competitiveness.
being part of a team
Maybe. What are you basing this on though? In my xp women actually like working in groups/teams more than men do. Basing this mostly on school, but I see it in games too. Most female AoE3 players that I know are not much into 1v1.
Great Britain WickedCossack
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll1

Post by WickedCossack »

1 in 10 sounds high, maybe I'd be surprised.
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Gendarme »

@Goodspeed I have no idea what Arkham horror is; I was referring to Batman: Arkham. It is not a competitive game as it is not multiplayer. Regarding video games vs. games in general, I don't have much to say as I don't have a good definition of what a game is. The question is what the reason behind the vast majority of men in Starcraft/Counter Strike/etc. is. I'm not really interested in finding a good definition of "game" just for the sake of having something to say about it.

Puzzling, problem solving, engineering are more male traits than female. I was not referring to jigsaw puzzles, but things such as "How do we cross this river safely?" or "How do I change this from O(n^2) to O(n)?". Jigsaw puzzles are generally just time sinks.

You can feel powerful even in single-player games such as the Arkham Series. Of course the underlying evolutionary reason for the power hunger - as for many other things - is competitiveness, but there is no need for competitiveness to get a feeling of power. At least not real competitiveness. Perhaps games are "fooling" our senses to see NPCs as competition. Then again, perhaps the feeling of "power" overlaps a lot with that of awe, which you can get for example the first time you fly in an in-game world. It would certainly be a superpower to fly, but the sensation of flying would probably be described as awe.

I didn't mean playing a game of 4v4 as being a part of a team, but was thinking of something rather long-term. Being in a team is somewhat overlapping with problem solving and engineering, but also extends to other areas such as protecting/providing for your friends/family and robbing a bank.

These differences are certainly harder to observe in today's western societies for a number of reasons (e.g. modern feminism, worse global economy so that both the man and woman have to work to provide for the family), but even a few generations ago they were as clear as day.
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll1

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

WickedCossack wrote:1 in 10 sounds high, maybe I'd be surprised.

I keep telling everyone im a girl but no one accepts it
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll1

Post by Laurence Drake »

NyxAchlys9 wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:1 in 10 sounds high, maybe I'd be surprised.

I keep telling everyone im a girl but no one accepts it

I keep telling everyone I'm a slav but no one accepts it
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll1

Post by NyxAchlys9 »

Laurence Drake wrote:
NyxAchlys9 wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:1 in 10 sounds high, maybe I'd be surprised.

I keep telling everyone im a girl but no one accepts it

I keep telling everyone I'm a slav but no one accepts it

I accept it without a doubt what are u on about
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Gender Issues and Poll

Post by Goodspeed »

Gendarme wrote:@Goodspeed I have no idea what Arkham horror is; I was referring to Batman: Arkham. It is not a competitive game as it is not multiplayer. Regarding video games vs. games in general, I don't have much to say as I don't have a good definition of what a game is. The question is what the reason behind the vast majority of men in Starcraft/Counter Strike/etc. is. I'm not really interested in finding a good definition of "game" just for the sake of having something to say about it.
Ah. Well the same thing applies whichever Arkham you meant. It's a game, so women are by default less interested. And like I said the distinction between tabletop games and video games is important because the threshold to get into video gaming is much higher. Looking at tabletop games, which also tend to be more casual, I think the percentage of female players is much higher. When you get into serious (competitive) tabletop games like chess, the vast majority of players is male again.

Puzzling, problem solving, engineering are more male traits than female. I was not referring to jigsaw puzzles, but things such as "How do we cross this river safely?" or "How do I change this from O(n^2) to O(n)?". Jigsaw puzzles are generally just time sinks.
I'm not convinced about puzzling and problem solving. Where does problem solving stop anyway? It's what we do all day every day. Define "problem". Engineering, sure, but one has to wonder if that is mostly a cultural thing or genetic. It probably is genetic, but it's obvious that cultural factors are skewing the numbers so it's hard to say to what extent.

You can feel powerful even in single-player games such as the Arkham Series. Of course the underlying evolutionary reason for the power hunger - as for many other things - is competitiveness, but there is no need for competitiveness to get a feeling of power.
No but there is a need for an underlying instinct that makes power feel good. You can feel powerful but for it to be a rewarding feeling you still need competitiveness. And there is a degree of that in everyone, including women, it just seems to be more rewarding to men.

I didn't mean playing a game of 4v4 as being a part of a team, but was thinking of something rather long-term. Being in a team is somewhat overlapping with problem solving and engineering, but also extends to other areas such as protecting/providing for your friends/family and robbing a bank.
This didn't make much sense to me. Protecting/providing is not working in a team; you are doing that on your own are you not? How is robbing a bank a long-term team effort?
In my xp women are on average more into working in groups/teams, whether that's short-term or long.

These differences are certainly harder to observe in today's western societies for a number of reasons (e.g. modern feminism, worse global economy so that both the man and woman have to work to provide for the family), but even a few generations ago they were as clear as day.
Just no. They're harder to observe today because they are largely cultural. Women didn't work serious/well-paying jobs because they couldn't. They weren't educated because they couldn't be. Obviously then the differences are clear as day. Women are working more today because they always wanted to. The percentage of families where the woman is the main or even the only breadwinner have been and still are on the rise. This is/was even true in the household I grew up in. As women get increasingly educated and work more serious jobs, these differences will start to fade even more.

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