UK Election

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Re: UK Election

Post by deleted_user0 »

lejend wrote:
WickedCossack wrote:
lejend wrote:
Yes, I consider any attack on any innocent person to be a big deal. I am not concerned only with myself. Either government protects people or allows them to protect themselves.


You're avoided my main point in all of your posts which is comparing issues on their relative impact to society.

I guess I can now claim that you care more about one person being killed in the UK by a terrorist than 20,000 people being killed by preventable health issues as so far you give me no reason not to do so. Is this true? That doesn't seem to me like you care about other people.


Nope I care about that too, which is why I support health care reform and a lifestyle change for most people. But surely war requires more planning and attention from government than illness does? Isn't national security the government's main job? Was Pearl Harbor in your view a relatively unimportant issue that the government overreacted to?


Yes, they overreacted. Not because they declared war and fought back against enemy combatants, but because they criminalised and imprisoned their own citizens, alienating them from their rights and patriotism for nothing else but an ethnical association. Maybe you should educate yourself about the Internalisation of Japanese americans during ww2, perhaps you will not seem like youre talking out of donkey' arse after that, and people can finally take you serious. Its hard not to laugh at a talking donkeys arse, dont take it personal.
Great Britain InsectPoison
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Re: UK Election

Post by InsectPoison »

Gendarme wrote:Simple suggestions off the top of my head:

    - Don't make it even worse; stop importing terrorists. Border control is of utmost importance.

    - Deport people who openly support terrorism (yes, there are many who do not hide their allegiance).

    - Wake up. Moderate muslims should be absolutely outraged, why aren't they? Perhaps they aren't as moderate as we assume.

    - This is no longer a matter of rare unfortunate incidents; it has gone too far to easily fix. They have stealthily invaded our land, and are mobilising. This is war; arm the citizens.

You sound like a typical /r/the_donald poster
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: UK Election

Post by Laurence Drake »

InsectPoison wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Simple suggestions off the top of my head:

    - Don't make it even worse; stop importing terrorists. Border control is of utmost importance.

    - Deport people who openly support terrorism (yes, there are many who do not hide their allegiance).

    - Wake up. Moderate muslims should be absolutely outraged, why aren't they? Perhaps they aren't as moderate as we assume.

    - This is no longer a matter of rare unfortunate incidents; it has gone too far to easily fix. They have stealthily invaded our land, and are mobilising. This is war; arm the citizens.

You sound like a typical /r/the_donald poster

You mean because his logic is impervious and the best thing libtards like you can do in response is sob hysterically?
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Great Britain InsectPoison
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Re: UK Election

Post by InsectPoison »

Laurence Drake wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:
Gendarme wrote:Simple suggestions off the top of my head:

    - Don't make it even worse; stop importing terrorists. Border control is of utmost importance.

    - Deport people who openly support terrorism (yes, there are many who do not hide their allegiance).

    - Wake up. Moderate muslims should be absolutely outraged, why aren't they? Perhaps they aren't as moderate as we assume.

    - This is no longer a matter of rare unfortunate incidents; it has gone too far to easily fix. They have stealthily invaded our land, and are mobilising. This is war; arm the citizens.

You sound like a typical /r/the_donald poster

You mean because his logic is impervious and the best thing libtards like you can do in response is sob hysterically?


Arming citizens does more harm than good, gun crime will sky rocket. Do you really want to live in a society where you are fearing if someones going to shoot you over the smallest things. Look at chicago for example, it has one of the highest homicide rates in the world and the worst city in terms of gun crime.
What makes you even think im a liberal?
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: UK Election

Post by Laurence Drake »

InsectPoison wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:You sound like a typical /r/the_donald poster

You mean because his logic is impervious and the best thing libtards like you can do in response is sob hysterically?


Arming citizens does more harm than good, gun crime will sky rocket. Do you really want to live in a society where you are fearing if someones going to shoot you over the smallest things. Look at chicago for example, it has one of the highest homicide rates in the world and the worst city in terms of gun crime.
What makes you even think im a liberal?

Because your political philosophy is founded on the belief that humans are incapable of taking charge of their own lives and need the state to do it for them. Most people aren't murderous cretins and wouldn't even think of buying a gun, nevermind using one without justification.

Suppose you were in London that night and one of those terrorists started stabbing you with his knife. You would have had the right to defend yourself, and with firearms if necessary. Why does the government have the prerogative to take that away from you? What 'greater good' is being served in allowing people to die helplessly at the hands of crazed religious maniacs?
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Poland pecelot
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Re: UK Election

Post by pecelot »

jesus3 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I want to like all of WickedCossack's posts but I can't because it takes me to another page so I'm offering my auditory (textual) support instead.


Idk how wicked didn't already stop arguing. The other two are clearly not talking about the same thing and are immune to actual argumentation.

yesh, we should all bow down in front of you in silence :chinese:

n0el wrote:So you should hate everyone of a certain ethnicity because an extremely small % of them commit acts of terror? Talk about a generalization....As for this Islam preaches more hate garbage...there have been many studies that show the Bible or Old testament specifically is as bad or worse than the Quran.

The thing is, it's not extremely small by any means. It's a common problem you can't deny that is backed up by influential sides and doctrines.
ā€žThere have been many studies" is not really an argument. Christianity itself is based mostly on the New Testament and definitely doesn't endorse methods of dealing with infidels from the Old one.
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Re: UK Election

Post by n0el »

SO no atrocities have ever been committed in the name of Christianity?
mad cuz bad
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Re: UK Election

Post by rsy »

pecelot wrote:
n0el wrote:So you should hate everyone of a certain ethnicity because an extremely small % of them commit acts of terror? Talk about a generalization....As for this Islam preaches more hate garbage...there have been many studies that show the Bible or Old testament specifically is as bad or worse than the Quran.

The thing is, it's not extremely small by any means. It's a common problem you can't deny that is backed up by influential sides and doctrines.

If you are talking about Muslims who commit acts of terror, from my experience the percentage is indeed small. don't know for sure what lead you to say it isn't small.
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Re: UK Election

Post by jesus3 »

This thread is basically shitposting now
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Re: UK Election

Post by n0el »

Yes. Mods shitposting
mad cuz bad
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Re: UK Election

Post by britishmusketeer »

Laurence Drake wrote:Suppose you were in London that night and one of those terrorists started stabbing you with his knife. You would have had the right to defend yourself, and with firearms if necessary. Why does the government have the prerogative to take that away from you? What 'greater good' is being served in allowing people to die helplessly at the hands of crazed religious maniacs?

Thing is though that if the people had guns, the terrorists would have guns also. 3 Terrorists armed with guns would definitely kill more than 7 people.
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Re: UK Election

Post by pecelot »

n0el wrote:SO no atrocities have ever been committed in the name of Christianity?

They have, based on false assumptions, way back in the past. Things have changed, my friend!
rsy wrote:If you are talking about Muslims who commit acts of terror, from my experience the percentage is indeed small. don't know for sure what lead you to say it isn't small.

Maybe the scale of terrorist attack during the last years? :hmm:
n0el wrote:Yes. Mods shitposting

Yes, please stop. :chinese:
britishmusketeer wrote:Thing is though that if the people had guns, the terrorists would have guns also. 3 Terrorists armed with guns would definitely kill more than 7 people.

Terrorists have guns anyways? Vide Paris 2015?
No Flag deleted_user0
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Re: UK Election

  • Quote

Post by deleted_user0 »

Laurence Drake wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:
Laurence Drake wrote:You mean because his logic is impervious and the best thing libtards like you can do in response is sob hysterically?


Arming citizens does more harm than good, gun crime will sky rocket. Do you really want to live in a society where you are fearing if someones going to shoot you over the smallest things. Look at chicago for example, it has one of the highest homicide rates in the world and the worst city in terms of gun crime.
What makes you even think im a liberal?

Because your political philosophy is founded on the belief that humans are incapable of taking charge of their own lives and need the state to do it for them. Most people aren't murderous cretins and wouldn't even think of buying a gun, nevermind using one without justification.

Suppose you were in London that night and one of those terrorists started stabbing you with his knife. You would have had the right to defend yourself, and with firearms if necessary. Why does the government have the prerogative to take that away from you? What 'greater good' is being served in allowing people to die helplessly at the hands of crazed religious maniacs?


who the fuck cares about knifes and guns? i want my personal nuke. if you tell me i cant have it, you are a fucking libtard.
Great Britain WickedCossack
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Re: UK Election

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Post by WickedCossack »

Laurence Drake wrote:Because your political philosophy is founded on the belief that humans are incapable of taking charge of their own lives and need the state to do it for them. Most people aren't murderous cretins and wouldn't even think of buying a gun, nevermind using one without justification.

Suppose you were in London that night and one of those terrorists started stabbing you with his knife. You would have had the right to defend yourself, and with firearms if necessary. Why does the government have the prerogative to take that away from you? What 'greater good' is being served in allowing people to die helplessly at the hands of crazed religious maniacs?


If you want the right to defend yourself with firearms then you acknowledge there must exist some murderous cretins who you want to defend your self from. And you want to give those murderous cretins a gun? :huh:

But seriously, that's how a democracy is supposed to work no? If we wanted guns we would vote for it. A lot more people in the US obviously feel safer knowing most people own a gun, good for them, that's what they voted for. Over the pond, we do not. That's where the government gets the right from. (Issues with whether democracy is actually working as intended aside.)

So here's a question for you: Do you think if the population of the UK had the right to bear arms (for self defence) we would reduce our homicide rate or would it go up? It's already one of the lowest in the entire world. Or is that not relevant to you and your argument comes from wanting more freedom as a citizen?

I've lived in the UK all my life and I can honestly say I've not met a single person who is in favour of personal gun ownership for self-defence. It's different in various countries of course and the laws reflect that but you act like we are being denied of something that we want when that could not be further from the truth.
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Re: UK Election

Post by deleted_user0 »

pecelot wrote:
n0el wrote:SO no atrocities have ever been committed in the name of Christianity?

They have, based on false assumptions, way back in the past. Things have changed, my friend!
rsy wrote:If you are talking about Muslims who commit acts of terror, from my experience the percentage is indeed small. don't know for sure what lead you to say it isn't small.

Maybe the scale of terrorist attack during the last years? :hmm:
n0el wrote:Yes. Mods shitposting

Yes, please stop. :chinese:
britishmusketeer wrote:Thing is though that if the people had guns, the terrorists would have guns also. 3 Terrorists armed with guns would definitely kill more than 7 people.

Terrorists have guns anyways? Vide Paris 2015?


what about norway about 10 years ago? 50+ dead, way more than london. have you forgotten already? i guess maybe because he was not a muslim? XD what about canada 1 year ago? in myanmar muslims are being persecuted and killed by a buddhist majority. but lets stay quiet about that ;)
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Re: UK Election

Post by pecelot »

Way more than London, Paris, Paris, Nice, Berlin, and so on?
Well, those are... Buddhist things.
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Re: UK Election

Post by n0el »

the European white supremacy is strong
mad cuz bad
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Re: UK Election

Post by britishmusketeer »

pecelot wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:Thing is though that if the people had guns, the terrorists would have guns also. 3 Terrorists armed with guns would definitely kill more than 7 people.

Terrorists have guns anyways? Vide Paris 2015?
Obviously it's still possible for terrorists to get guns but it's more difficult. There have been 2 recent terrorist attacks in London and in both cases they didn't have guns leading to a total of 12 deaths with 4 terrorists. In America there there was a single terrorist killing 50 people in a nightclub. Also if the victims have guns in a shooting it makes things worse since no one knows who to shoot at in the chaos.
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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: UK Election

Post by jesus3 »

n0el wrote:the European white supremacy is strong


I'm not sure what a like on your comment would mean so I'll just use this way to express what I wanted to: I like your comment, not that white supremacy apparentely is strong here
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Re: UK Election

Post by Dolan »

It seems obvious to me that the rest of the world is not qualified to have rights inspired by the European enlightenment. It's just not in their culture to support that. And globalisation exported European-style human rights onto other territories where they don't really believe in them.

So what happened is that the West allowed a host of migrants from other cultures to settle in territories where institutions and rights have been defined by European history. They don't really believe in the same things that defined those institutions, they just came to the West for material comfort and because they are being offered a social status they can't find anywhere else on the planet. So they learned how to game the system to their own advantage. They still hold religious beliefs that are incompatible with Western/European democracy and institutions, but claim a right to keep their beliefs based on those very institutions that they don't really believe in.

For many years, the West has been taken advantage of by these migrants. They used its free benefits, welfare, infrastructure, institutions that they never participated in building, but they holed themselves up in tightly-knit communities based on ethnic ties and religion. There are quarters in Brussels which are entirely made of Muslims or Africans. They basically behave and live as if they were in their home countries, except here they get a lot more money for free. And if you go to an employment centre, most people on benefits are from the same groups.

I'm not saying that there aren't examples of people who fully integrated and adopted the values of the West, but they're not the norm. If you don't believe this, go live in Brussels, Paris, London and see for yourself.

And then go to Eastern Europe and make a comparison.

[ Maybe this topic should be split, since I'm not sure it's about UK elections anymore. ]
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Re: UK Election

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Post by lejend »

n0el wrote:So you should hate everyone of a certain ethnicity


Uh...

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As for this Islam preaches more hate garbage...there have been many studies that show the Bible or Old testament specifically is as bad or worse than the Quran.


The topic is about Islamic terrorism. Europe is not on high alert due to Jewish terrorists.

umeu wrote:Yes, they overreacted. Not because they declared war and fought back against enemy combatants, but because they criminalised and imprisoned their own citizens, alienating them from their rights and patriotism for nothing else but an ethnical association. Maybe you should educate yourself about the Internalisation of Japanese americans during ww2, perhaps you will not seem like youre talking out of donkey' arse after that, and people can finally take you serious. Its hard not to laugh at a talking donkeys arse, dont take it personal.


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Try to stay on-topic.

n0el wrote:the European white supremacy is strong


Can we tone down the personal references and argue in good faith?

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Re: UK Election

Post by dietschlander »

I like above post very much, so I'm giving extra likes and some flowers here + 2 :flowers:
Theres going to be a dam, the great dam and we'll let the beavers pay for it - Edeholland 2016
Anyway, nuancing isn't your forte, so I'll agree with you like I would with a 8 year old: violence is bad, don't do hard drugs and stay in school Benj98
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Re: UK Election

Post by pecelot »

n0el wrote:the European white supremacy is strong

the libdem cry is strong, too
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Re: UK Election

Post by deleted_user0 »

lejend wrote:
n0el wrote:So you should hate everyone of a certain ethnicity


Uh...

Image

Image

As for this Islam preaches more hate garbage...there have been many studies that show the Bible or Old testament specifically is as bad or worse than the Quran.


The topic is about Islamic terrorism. Europe is not on high alert due to Jewish terrorists.

umeu wrote:Yes, they overreacted. Not because they declared war and fought back against enemy combatants, but because they criminalised and imprisoned their own citizens, alienating them from their rights and patriotism for nothing else but an ethnical association. Maybe you should educate yourself about the Internalisation of Japanese americans during ww2, perhaps you will not seem like youre talking out of donkey' arse after that, and people can finally take you serious. Its hard not to laugh at a talking donkeys arse, dont take it personal.


Image

Try to stay on-topic.

n0el wrote:the European white supremacy is strong


Can we tone down the personal references and argue in good faith?

Image


I am staying on topic, you brought up the question of Pearl Harbor. I answered it. You say you are comcerned with freedom and civil liberties. Then tell me, do you think the death of 3000 citizens justifies the systematic and organized mistreatment of 300.000?
I bet you believe it was not racist either, because if it was, why did they also lock up the italians and germans, right. And then why did they also prosecute americans with nazi ties and sympathies, right? Oh... Wait...

You guys are talking about deportation in the name of freedom. Of a war and arming the citizens. But you don't seem to realise what passports these terrorists have. You're effectively talking about civil war and the end of the justice state, of the beginning of a police state that no longer even tries to hide what it is, in the name of liberty you say. Its hilarious and insane at the same time that you can even believe that. Let's just call it what it is, you're afraid.

And you can post memes all you want, but its racist for sure (and im not even talking about the legal definition) Where will you deport your citizens too? Where will you deport your native converts too? Right, i guess colored people can fuck off, and white converts, hmm. Cant send them abroad... You can be tough now and yell that, but it will never happen and you know it. The only reason for that is that this is very much a racist matter

Also, try to use your words next time, i know its hard for you to put your thoughts into words, thats true for most irrational people, but try please ok? Maybe i will give you a sticker and a lollypop if you succeed!
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Re: UK Election

Post by benj89 »

britishmusketeer wrote:
pecelot wrote:
britishmusketeer wrote:Thing is though that if the people had guns, the terrorists would have guns also. 3 Terrorists armed with guns would definitely kill more than 7 people.

Terrorists have guns anyways? Vide Paris 2015?
Obviously it's still possible for terrorists to get guns but it's more difficult. There have been 2 recent terrorist attacks in London and in both cases they didn't have guns leading to a total of 12 deaths with 4 terrorists. In America there there was a single terrorist killing 50 people in a nightclub. Also if the victims have guns in a shooting it makes things worse since no one knows who to shoot at in the chaos.

As far as I know buying guns is about as hard as buying weed in some french ghettos - not exaggerating. I don't think it's "possible", I think any terrorist that is part of an organized group has guns/bombs, others probably act alone and are even more retarded than usual but isis claim responsibility for it anyway. Besides, if the goal is to kill as many people as possible, a vehicule might do more damage than guns, cf Nice.
Not even mentioning the dark web, pretty sure I saw AK-47s there.

I believe it would be beneficial in these situations if few civilians had guns. Would panic make you shoot at anyone due to the adrenaline rush? don't think so. When you can't trust the government/intelligence agencies for protecting your life/family, imo you should own a gun, as simple as that
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham

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