London Terror Attack

[Snuden]

Those were terror attacks (jihad)
Either executed by ISIS or their allies.

[WickedCossack]

Fighting terror with terror. Ingenious.

[Snuden]

More like fighting terror with stupidity. The war on terror is not won by single nut-cases acting out (somewhat) unplanned killings.

[oats13]

so, sure, this is not a terrorist attack then oats. But what was the one in London a few weeks back? Or few months back, or 2005?

I didn't say it wasn't a terrorist attack I just suggest that people should decide for themselves- the guy had an ideology of sorts but not one that he wants to export I'd imagine, I think it is fair to draw some kind of distinction between someone punching someone and that person punching them back- neither is the ideal however.

[deleted_user0]

sure, i agree, but who's to say who started the punching when you walk in on a fight half way? he will claim he's defending himself, and they will say they are taking revenge for something else, and so it continues, until an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[Dolan]

Maybe "devide them" is the only way to solve this

I'd call this the unravelling of the French Revolution. Slowly the veil (learned prejudices, learned taboos) is lifted and we're waking up to a more primeval consciousness of our species, this is like history's reset button.

People are confused, they don't see where this is going, but they are looking for a ground and a grounding, and that makes them look deeper and deeper into themselves. We thought nationalism was dead? How about retro-nationalism, retro-nazism, retro-communism, etc.

[oats13]

umeu- we could chase that rabbit down any number of holes but from my point of view having grown up in Britain at a time that it was at least nominally 'small c' christian then it is quite clear what is happening- we don't have any of these problems with buddhists, sikhs, jainists, hindus and neither with Indians, chinese, south americans, swedes or west indians.

You are correct essentially and that is why people shouldn't punch back but use pre-existing systems of justice instead- however we are not all monks and this was bound to happen- we just went too fast with certain things because it suited 'both sides' at the time and now we see the fallout in a society that doesn't have the language to discuss what has happened nor the means to disseminate the arguments.

In reply to the reply above- believing that one's nation state aught to exist and can exist for the greater good does not equate to 'nationalism' in the usual context of critique- best to not fall into the trap of literalism that academic language invites IMO.

[_RDX_]

Lot of shitty racists. Why should a terrorist necessarily be a Muslim?? Its just a religion just like Christianity... Why the heck do you have to mention the religion all the time? The ISIS militants are a shame and disgrace to the religion.... Now let me start talking like an idiotic discriminating racist...There is a news about people who convert their religion and join ISIS for money...From places like Central Europe where Christianity mostly exists... Till you guys stop discriminating, they will remain terrorists representing in the name of a religion. I say this because I have a lot of Muslim friends. A friend can never be forgiven.

[Snuden]

21!

Let forget about facts because you have some good Muslim friends.

[deleted_user0]

umeu- we could chase that rabbit down any number of holes but from my point of view having grown up in Britain at a time that it was at least nominally 'small c' christian then it is quite clear what is happening- we don't have any of these problems with buddhists, sikhs, jainists, hindus and neither with Indians, chinese, south americans, swedes or west indians.

But you did have similar problems with the irish. IRA has killed more british people than muslim terrorists have, yet that has been overcome without anything similar to the current racist rethoric (not saying it's your rethoric btw)

[deleted_user0]

Maybe "devide them" is the only way to solve this

I'd call this the unravelling of the French Revolution. Slowly the veil (learned prejudices, learned taboos) is lifted and we're waking up to a more primeval consciousness of our species, this is like history's reset button.

People are confused, they don't see where this is going, but they are looking for a ground and a grounding, and that makes them look deeper and deeper into themselves. We thought nationalism was dead? How about retro-nationalism, retro-nazism, retro-communism, etc.

french revolution gave birth to nationalism i think. instead of rallying behind your king to whom you owe obedience, or atleast rallying behind your landlord who owes obedience to the king, you fight for your country as your end of the bargain, while the state garantuees your liberties as their end.

[oats13]

Hmm- I think the I.R.A will be back this time next year personally- they just got caught with a large consignment of freshly manufactured semtex in fact- although strangely it didn't make the news...

There is correlation between the two groups in fact- you might like this lecture- I recommend all four parts of it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HnIyClHEM

Racism towards the Irish was and is prevalent especially in london in my experience- essentially the I.R.A has a nationalist ideology and ISIS has an internationalist ideology which has enough power to promote itself internationally wheareas nationalism by definition doesn't.

I think what many people don't grasp is that there is no cultural islam as such in comparison to judaism for instance-

In short I have no problem saying that running people down with vehicles is both wrong and likely to achieve little but rationally it is more likely for people to be concerned with an internationalist ideology whose aims are inimical to their own than with reactions to such IMO.

[Dolan]

[AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE]

Somehow it pisses me off that I can't even wear short pants in Sudan.

you dont seem like the kind of guy who goes to sudan to wear short pants.

Same thing happened when the Christians come to Scandinavia 1000 years ago.
The Norsemen culture died out.

this is 100% bs and different. also, norsemen culture pretty much exists there still, the most in iceland, ive been there some times. when they took over the christian culture they mixed it with their own mythology, they only took the things they approved as good and right, they learned from another culture, also there was a political deal for peace between some northern/christian leaders later on..

then again, you seem to support the christian culture against the muslim one, so your post makes even less sense..

[CelticCrusader]

This was inevitable. When one group of people attack another group of people, there will always be someone willing to attack back. Our country will one day end up in civil war. Sad but true. Why are people so mad about this one though ? Never heard you complaining when muslims carry out these type of attacks. Some people are so obsessed with white supremacy, but totally ignore the facts about islam. White supremacy is nowhere near the scale of isis. When did you hear the kkk carrying out worldwide attacks ?

[Dolan]

french revolution gave birth to nationalism i think. instead of rallying behind your king to whom you owe obedience, or atleast rallying behind your landlord who owes obedience to the king, you fight for your country as your end of the bargain, while the state garantuees your liberties as their end.

Yeah, that's the double legacy of the French Revolution, at the same time, it brought about the idea of universal human rights. The idea of nation as a new grounding for political legitimacy appeared because they needed a new political subject. And for lack of any source of authority, since the old regime was dead together with all the institutions (and gods which legitimised it), who else could have become that authority if not "the people" as a culture?

Since religious wars ended in Europe and Locke wrote his Letter Concerning Toleration, religion has gradually become a matter of private, tolerated opinion. The Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen even mentions this in article X ("No one may be disturbed for his opinions, even religious ones, provided that their manifestation does not trouble the public order established by the law"). This basically set the conditions for ethnic non-locality (because religion and culture were closely linked with ethnos back then, not a question of option like now, when you can be a Muslim Chinese-American, if you want to). What we're seeing now is a return to nativism, to the belief that ethnic divides also underlie cultural divides. I'm not saying this belief is false or true, I'm just saying this belief is making a come-back, which is contrary to the spirit of the French Revolution.

People often forget that "la nation" was not against another nation or above another nation, during the French Revolution. Neither was it during the 1848 revolutions. Later nationalisms, including Nazism, embody this belief that nations are not equal and necessarily so.

[Snuden]

Somehow it pisses me off that I can't even wear short pants in Sudan.

you dont seem like the kind of guy who goes to sudan to wear short pants.

Same thing happened when the Christians come to Scandinavia 1000 years ago.
The Norsemen culture died out.

this is 100% bs and different. also, norsemen culture pretty much exists there still, the most in iceland, ive been there some times. when they took over the christian culture they mixed it with their own mythology, they only took the things they approved as good and right, they learned from another culture, also there was a political deal for peace between some northern/christian leaders later on..

then again, you seem to support the christian culture against the muslim one, so your post makes even less sense..

Here is what happened, when I saw the "quoted by" notification...

First I always look at, which poster quoted me and at the same time I look at their avatar. I noticed the spliff the guy in yours were smoking. "Well that's cool enough, who don't like a little primo smokem once in a while?' I thought.

Then I went on to read what you actually quoted and then I read your comments to my quotes. I had to read it 3-4 times before it hit me... Holy shit! This dude is stoned out of his mind! Might even laced it with meth.

Going to Sudan to wear shorts? No dude, if you actually read and understood what I wrote, you would see that I was there to WORK. Work to better the lives of those who now take advantage of the country, where I was brought up>

Norseman culture still exist? The Norsemen took over christian culture? Political deal between Northern(?) and christian leaders?

Lay low on the glass dude...

[supernapoleon]

1 white terror attack
10000 islamic terror attacks
==> whites are bad, islam has nothing to do with tons of thousand terror attacks.

[Nymphomaniac]

1 white terror attack
10000 islamic terror attacks
==> whites are bad, islam has nothing to do with tons of thousand terror attacks.

Also terrorism has no religion

[deleted_user0]

1 white terror attack
10000 islamic terror attacks
==> whites are bad, islam has nothing to do with tons of thousand terror attacks.

i wonder how much effort it must take to become this stupid... i mean even if i tried, i wouldn't be able to replicate your logic!

[Goodspeed]

It makes sense that people are jumping on this as it is less okay for a privileged person from western society to devolve into extremism than it is for a kid growing up in a morally primitive society. They should know better. We as a society need to be the bigger person, meaning we need to stand there and take the blows. We count our losses, move on and don't hold grudges. We carry the third world to our standards not by selling them weapons but by giving them financial and political incentives to move in the right direction.

None of these terrorist attacks are a big deal. They are mass murders, and they have happened throughout history. There will always be nut jobs on every side of every disagreement. What is a big deal is the way people look at each other the day after. The fear, the hate, the fact that even right here on ESOC it took only 3 posts before the issue was politicized. The divide that keeps on growing even though there is statistically not a fucking thing to be scared of.

Facepalm.

[Snuden]

You pretty much have the TOTAL opposite opinion than I have :-)
Especially this "We as a society need to be the bigger person, meaning we need to stand there and take the blows"

Maybe I just didn't get the irony.

[Goodspeed]

You pretty much have the TOTAL opposite opinion than I have :-)
Especially this "We as a society need to be the bigger person, meaning we need to stand there and take the blows"

Maybe I just didn't get the irony.

If a child yells at you, do you yell back?

[supernapoleon]

You pretty much have the TOTAL opposite opinion than I have :-)
Especially this "We as a society need to be the bigger person, meaning we need to stand there and take the blows"

Maybe I just didn't get the irony.

If a child yells at you, do you yell back?

If a child choppes a knife in your belly, do you say well done?

[Snuden]

You pretty much have the TOTAL opposite opinion than I have :-)
Especially this "We as a society need to be the bigger person, meaning we need to stand there and take the blows"

Maybe I just didn't get the irony.

If a child yells at you, do you yell back?

No I do not. I have taught both my girls that in order to be heard, you need to argue in a civilized manner .
But one thing is to deal with children, another thing is to deal with people, willing to blow themselves up for their cause.