London Terror Attack

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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by deleted_user0 »

lejend wrote:
umeu wrote:They may not obey the christian commandments, byt that doesnt mean they dont think of themselves as christian. Or do you mean to say theyre not christian because they broke the rules of christ?


What makes you think they think of themselves as Christian? Christians are actually heavily persecuted by governments or organized criminal organizations in nominally Christian countries, especially in Latin America and Africa. Any association with Christianity is insincere and is to gain support or prevent opposition among people. But if a church or activist contradicts the organization's or government's goals, it is promptly suppressed, often quite violently. Some advocacy organizations estimate that over the last decade or so, dozens, or hundreds of thousands of Christians have been killed, partly for being opposing these gangs and governments. It seems quite clear that they have no interest in adhering to the Bible.


Their statements? So if thinking you are a christian and saying you are one do not make you one, what does? And can you answer the other question? Are you still a christian if you break the rules of the bible?
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by deleted_user »

oats13 wrote:Rights based law is basically an attempt to do what God should of done before we 'killed' 'him', personally I feel it will run into problems when it's imperfections are tested- i.e the constructed 'legal world' fails to interface with the actual real world and I believe that because I believe in reality- my word for reality is GOD. Yes- I believe that rights based law is a bad thing.

I don't know where people are getting their facts from here tbh- I know it is an appeal to authority but I did my degree in religious studies and focused a whole term on exactly the comparison between quranic exhortations to violence and new testament ones and there just is nothing to debate about it- Islam is massively more violent in scripture than Christianity but don't take my word for it- go read the New Testament and the Quran and see what you think.

Should take about 3 days.

As for murder rates- you actually get the best correlation if you use temperature as a guide tbh. ayay correlation, causation I know................

It's "should have."
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by oats13 »

fuck off :smile:
We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created by the you know, you know the thing.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Gendarme »

How lejend and Umeu have the stamina to continue this is beyond me.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Netherland Antilles Laurence Drake
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Laurence Drake »

Gendarme wrote:How lejend and Umeu have the stamina to continue this is beyond me.

It's amazing the ideas you come up with when you're unemployed.
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Re: London Terror Attack

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Post by gibson »

InsectPoison wrote:Umeu is such a SJW lmao

It's funny how believing in equal rights for all gets you labeled as a sjw on the internet
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by CelticCrusader »

gibson wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:Umeu is such a SJW lmao

It's funny how believing in equal rights for all gets you labeled as a sjw on the internet


He's been arguing against people who speaks facts against Islam, by comparing Christianity to Islam. He is just of these idiots that ignore legitimate facts about Islam and deflects attention onto Christianity. Tell me how many Christian terrorists have killed people in the last year ? Then ask yourself how many muslim terrorists have killed people in the last year? Tell me which countries excecute gays ? And let rape become the norm ? And give women no rights ?

The stats don't lie. Umeu should actually read the their so called 'holy' book. Over 100 verses inciting hatred against non believers. Calling for murder and rape . But lefty morons dont exactly answer when you present facts, they just generally talk shit to avoid the subject of facts. This is why most stop arguing with blinded idiots who obviously hate white people. I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by gibson »

CelticCrusader wrote:
gibson wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:Umeu is such a SJW lmao

It's funny how believing in equal rights for all gets you labeled as a sjw on the internet


He's been arguing against people who speaks facts against Islam, by comparing Christianity to Islam. He is just of these idiots that ignore legitimate facts about Islam and deflects attention onto Christianity. Tell me how many Christian terrorists have killed people in the last year ? Then ask yourself how many muslim terrorists have killed people in the last year? Tell me which countries excecute gays ? And let rape become the norm ? And give women no rights ?

The stats don't lie. Umeu should actually read the their so called 'holy' book. Over 100 verses inciting hatred against non believers. Calling for murder and rape . But lefty morons dont exactly answer when you present facts, they just generally talk shit to avoid the subject of facts. This is why most stop arguing with blinded idiots who obviously hate white people. I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?

Well historically Christianity has been just as if not more destructive than Islam, if simply for the fact that it's been around longer. However the world wide trend of shifting left, although it somehow dodged middle eastern Islam, has made Christianity today much more tolerant.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Gichtenlord »

CelticCrusader wrote: I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?

Our current used alphabet (or was it the numeric alphabet?), Coffee, kebab and medicine + scientific knowledge during medieval age.
r]
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by CelticCrusader »

Gichtenlord wrote:
CelticCrusader wrote: I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?

Our current used alphabet (or was it the numeric alphabet?), Coffee, kebab and medicine + scientific knowledge during medieval age.


They cant live off that for hundreds of years whilst continually slaughtering innocent people in the name of allah. Name one good thing that the recent muslim immigration to europe has brought ?
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by gibson »

CelticCrusader wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:
CelticCrusader wrote: I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?

Our current used alphabet (or was it the numeric alphabet?), Coffee, kebab and medicine + scientific knowledge during medieval age.


They cant live off that for hundreds of years whilst continually slaughtering innocent people in the name of allah. Name one good thing that the recent muslim immigration to europe has brought ?
Its saved potentially hundreds of thousands of peoples lives?
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Gendarme »

LOL "saved lives"
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Jjtuxtron »

gibson wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:Umeu is such a SJW lmao

It's funny how believing in equal rights for all gets you labeled as a sjw on the internet


What do you mean by "equal rights"?
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by gibson »

Gendarme wrote:LOL "saved lives"

There's a reason why people are immigrating, and its not cause they lived peaceful happy lives in their home country
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by deleted_user0 »

CelticCrusader wrote:
gibson wrote:
InsectPoison wrote:Umeu is such a SJW lmao

It's funny how believing in equal rights for all gets you labeled as a sjw on the internet


He's been arguing against people who speaks facts against Islam, by comparing Christianity to Islam. He is just of these idiots that ignore legitimate facts about Islam and deflects attention onto Christianity. Tell me how many Christian terrorists have killed people in the last year ? Then ask yourself how many muslim terrorists have killed people in the last year? Tell me which countries excecute gays ? And let rape become the norm ? And give women no rights ?

The stats don't lie. Umeu should actually read the their so called 'holy' book. Over 100 verses inciting hatred against non believers. Calling for murder and rape . But lefty morons dont exactly answer when you present facts, they just generally talk shit to avoid the subject of facts. This is why most stop arguing with blinded idiots who obviously hate white people. I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?



Haha nah, you're just jumping to conclusions like an absolute retard. Im not interested in arguing with braindead closedminded racist relics of the past like you. Im just interested in talking to lejenda. So please mind your own business and go cry about brexit not happening. Ok?

Christian terrorists dont exist, because theyre never labelled as such, instead theyre troubled minds that needed help. It was a tragedy. Sure. Im actually not denying any issues with islamic extremists, but im having issue with the overwhelming bigotry and hypocracy of the people in this thread that ironically claim they want to defend western culture without having any basic understanding of what is. Unless i guess it means walking around calling everyone nigga cuz ur such a fucking cool kid.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by deleted_user0 »

CelticCrusader wrote:
Gichtenlord wrote:
CelticCrusader wrote: I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?

Our current used alphabet (or was it the numeric alphabet?), Coffee, kebab and medicine + scientific knowledge during medieval age.


They cant live off that for hundreds of years whilst continually slaughtering innocent people in the name of allah. Name one good thing that the recent muslim immigration to europe has brought ?


Organised religion never brings anything good anywhere.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by lejend »

umeu wrote:Their statements? So if thinking you are a christian and saying you are one do not make you one, what does? And can you answer the other question? Are you still a christian if you break the rules of the bible?


Sorry, what's your point? Do you think I'm gonna answer hundreds of questions?

gibson wrote:Well historically Christianity has been just as if not more destructive than Islam, if simply for the fact that it's been around longer. However the world wide trend of shifting left, although it somehow dodged middle eastern Islam, has made Christianity today much more tolerant.


Now that's funny right there, the idea that leftists made Christianity "more tolerant." I can think of a few hundred million dead people who'd disagree with the left's tolerance. :roll:
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by deleted_user0 »

lejend wrote:
umeu wrote:Their statements? So if thinking you are a christian and saying you are one do not make you one, what does? And can you answer the other question? Are you still a christian if you break the rules of the bible?


Sorry, what's your point? Do you think I'm gonna answer hundreds of questions?

gibson wrote:Well historically Christianity has been just as if not more destructive than Islam, if simply for the fact that it's been around longer. However the world wide trend of shifting left, although it somehow dodged middle eastern Islam, has made Christianity today much more tolerant.


Now that's funny right there, the idea that leftists made Christianity "more tolerant." I can think of a few hundred million dead people who'd disagree with the left's tolerance. :roll:


i'm just wondering what you think about that. It's a simple question which requires a simple answer :)
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by lejend »

Contact your local priest, then. My opinion is off-topic.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Laurence Drake »

Not an opinion - FACT!
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by Theodore »

Very difficult topic. the discussions get very confusing every time. Some thoughts (sorry I tried to include sources, which makes it harder to read):

1.
meanwhile Islamist terror is the predominant form of terror in Europe since 2004, it has not been like that before, neither in attacks nor in numbers of death:
Image

2.
Common sense probably: this kind of terror is a problem. Still, I don't think it is a good method to blame "the Islam". I especially don't like striking the chord of "Chrisianity = good" and "Islam = bad ". This is too simplistic.

a.
Christianity and Islam a strikingly similar when it comes to their most important source, their holy books. They are similar when it comes to topics like "god" or "women" http://www.christianity-islam.com/ And, since we are here, they are also similar when it comes to "violence": http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

b.
People who claim Christianity to be superior and the most important basis of "Western" culture, are mostly not Christians. They are definitely not the important Christians. Hear Pope Francis on that topic:
phpBB [video]
"There are fundamentalists in every religion". Churches in Germany have ignored the laws and sheltered refugees: http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-33069925/german-churches-sheltering-refugees It would be very Christian, to share everything you have and oh, I remember something about being hit in the face and "offering the other cheek". The churches in Germany were heavily criticised for giving the "church asylum" by a conservative Christian party (CSU = christian-social union). It is mostly right-wing / conservative thinkers who emphasise Christian superiority.

c.
I think the reasonable thing to start with is that it is an interpretation of Islam that causes problems (not "Islam" itself), and that might be a form of Sunni Islam, Wahhabism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism. At least this is the interpretation many Islamist terrorist work with. This makes already a big difference in the debate, because you do not constantly speaking about "the Muslims".

3.
Christianity was tamed over hundreds of years in Europe. It took some revolutions, the enlightenment and heavy interventions from states to make Christianity what it is today. In general, it has become a liberal, tolerant school of thought. Thanks to interpretation, but definitely not because any church planned it that way (separation of powers, divorce, abortion etc.). There have also been positive influences of the churches (concept of human dignity is much easier explained when humans are alike god).
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by CelticCrusader »

gibson wrote:
Gendarme wrote:LOL "saved lives"

There's a reason why people are immigrating, and its not cause they lived peaceful happy lives in their home country



The majority of these migrants are not from warzones like Syria and Iraq. They are mostly economic migrants , mostly fighting age men. They are jumping on the bandwagon. The current migrant influx is unsustainable, and its turning Europe into a shithole, because these 'migrants' bring their inferior culture and beliefs here.

Also its pretty simple to see that most of the ' migrants' are not fleeing war, if they were they would take refuge in the nearest safe country, instead of walking all the way across Europe to get in the UK.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by CelticCrusader »

He's been arguing against people who speaks facts against Islam, by comparing Christianity to Islam. He is just of these idiots that ignore legitimate facts about Islam and deflects attention onto Christianity. Tell me how many Christian terrorists have killed people in the last year ? Then ask yourself how many muslim terrorists have killed people in the last year? Tell me which countries excecute gays ? And let rape become the norm ? And give women no rights ?

The stats don't lie. Umeu should actually read the their so called 'holy' book. Over 100 verses inciting hatred against non believers. Calling for murder and rape . But lefty morons dont exactly answer when you present facts, they just generally talk shit to avoid the subject of facts. This is why most stop arguing with blinded idiots who obviously hate white people. I cant honestly name 1 thing islam has brought to Europe that is good, can you ?[/quote]


Haha nah, you're just jumping to conclusions like an absolute retard. Im not interested in arguing with braindead closedminded racist relics of the past like you. Im just interested in talking to lejenda. So please mind your own business and go cry about brexit not happening. Ok?

Christian terrorists dont exist, because theyre never labelled as such, instead theyre troubled minds that needed help. It was a tragedy. Sure. Im actually not denying any issues with islamic extremists, but im having issue with the overwhelming bigotry and hypocracy of the people in this thread that ironically claim they want to defend western culture without having any basic understanding of what is. Unless i guess it means walking around calling everyone nigga cuz ur such a fucking cool kid.[/quote]


Racist . Ok, firstly you cannot be a racist for criticizing a religion. A muslim can any colour of skin. Its easy for anyone with half a brain cell to see islam is incompatible with western laws and values. Cry about brexit not happeneing ? Its happening don't you worry.

The white guy that carried out the attack in question probably never read the bible and never went to church. Here in the UK the majority of us do not follow Christianity so I bet the guy never carried out this attack wasn't influenced by christianity, therefore he not a Christian terrorist. It was more a retaliatory attack from a lone person. Its not like he was part of an international terrorist organization. So hes a terrorist, murderer, but not a religious fundamentalist.

We are trying to defend western culture, because currently our culture is being attacked. Freedom of speech is a big part of our culture, these days we cant criticize an ideology for fear of being labelled racist, bigot , etc by politically correct idiots. Its ok for anyone to criticize Christianity and western culture because in this fucked up world you can only be racist if your white. Your hatred for whites oozes from each post Umeu, you call me racist but in reality you are probably far more racist than me. Thats one thing im not, I have friends who are black, friends who are muslim, and they would tell you I have never once called them anything or been racist in any way to them. But hey I suppose its easy to shout racist and bigot to anyone who has a different opinion.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by lejend »

Hello @Theodore,

1.

There is a difference between secular and Islamic terrorism. Nationalists and separatists tend to be limited in scale and location, and are often amenable to compromise. Islamists on the other hand are waging a global war to impose Islam on everyone.

2.

Any study of Islam will show that sharia and jihad are essential elements of Islamic orthodoxy, rather than fringe misinterpretations by a tiny minority of Muslims . All major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree with this.

a.

Provide evidence of Christianity being similar to Islam regarding violence and women.

b.

The Pope does not speak for all or most Christians. His statements are not official dogma of the Catholic Church. They are personal opinions that Catholics aren't at all obliged to agree with. Many Catholics disagree. For instance, Cardinal Raymond Burke. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/10 ... tting-win/

The ultimate goal of Islam is world conquest and the “supine” West is only helping it achieve that aim, a senior cardinal has said.

Speaking in an interview with Italian newspaper Il Giornale, Cardinal Raymond Burke accused Westerners of being too weak to acknowledge the incompatibility of Christianity and Islam.

“It is clear that Muslims have as their ultimate goal conquest and power over the world,” the American cardinal said. “Islam, through sharia, their law, will rule the world and permit violence against infidels, such as Christians. But we find it hard to recognise this reality and to respond by defending the Christian faith.”

“Many people do not understand what Islam really is,” he added. “They create these slogans: we all believe in the same God, we are all united by love and so on. It’s not true.”

He also said that modern Christians are often unwilling to proclaim their beliefs, and should not be afraid to convert people of other faiths.

“Christians have neglected a fundamental truth: there is only one Saviour of the world: Jesus Christ. We must not proselytize, imposing Christianity, but if we believe in Jesus it is our duty to bear witness.

“I think that this witness is not very strong, even in countries that were called Christian once upon a time, such as the European nations.”

Cardinal Burke, who is regarded as a leading traditionalist within the Catholic Church, went on to say that Islam poses a threat to the Western order because it makes no distinction between religion and the state.

“Islam is a threat in the sense that for the true Muslim, Allah must rule the world. Christ said in the Gospel: ‘Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s’. By contrast, the Islamic religion which is based on the law of the Koran aims to govern all countries where there are Muslims.

“While they are the minority they cannot insist, but when they become the majority they must apply the Sharia.”

We can already see this in some Muslim-majority neighbourhoods, the cardinal added.

“Today there are enclaves, entire neighbourhoods, in Europe where there is in fact Muslim rule.”

Speaking about so-called “no-go zones” such as Molenbeek, Cardinal Burke said that the existence of such neighbourhoods represented a failure of integration, calling them “a state within a state”.

“The problem is that Muslims aim for expansion,” he added. “The whole history of the Islamic presence in Europe is an attempt to conquer it.”


And Pope Benedict XVI:

https://www.ncronline.org/news/global/r ... bout-islam

In his 2006 speech, simply titled "Faith, Reason and the University: Memories and Reflections," Benedict characteristically took up a knotty concept -- the interplay of faith and reason. He wanted to show how reason untethered from faith leads to fanaticism and violence.

To illustrate that case, Benedict dug up an obscure 14th-century dialogue between a long-forgotten Byzantine Christian emperor, Manuel II Paleologus, and a Persian scholar about the concept of violence in Islam.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached," Benedict quoted the emperor as saying to his Islamic interlocutor.

In Islamic teaching, Benedict said, "God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality."

Given the tinderbox that was the Muslim world then, as now, it was no surprise that Benedict's citation of Islam as an example of a religion gone wild touched off the firestorm.

Not only were moderate Muslims offended, but extremists attacked churches in the West Bank, killed an Italian nun in Somalia and beheaded a priest in Iraq. Benedict's allies saw those episodes as proving the pope's point, and they cheered his willingness to "get tough" with Islam. "Benedict the Brave," the Wall Street Journal called him.


c.

If only Wahhabism is the problem, how do you explain jihadism and sharia by the other kinds of Muslims, such as Malikis, Hanafis, Shiites, etc.?

3.

Provide evidence that Christian doctrine was modified by liberals, governments, revolutionaries, etc.

Other ESOCkpuppets are free to answer any of these questions as well.
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Re: London Terror Attack

Post by CelticCrusader »

Is this the 'culture' we want in Europe ? Muslim man proving there is no such thing as a 'moderate' muslim.

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