net neutrality threatened

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Norway spanky4ever
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net neutrality threatened

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Post by spanky4ever »

This is the big issue right now. If you think its only USA citizens that will be inflicted - well think again- cos this is the WWW - and its concerning us ALL.
I will admit Im not an expert, or anything like that, but I will make this thread so we can have a discussion and exchange info about how it will affect us, and Twitch online streaming. Will the AOE 3, being a very "small" games for specially interested, be threatened by very slow streaming? I dont know, maybe you know more?
https://youtu.be/5Sk9k4B3M38
https://youtu.be/8TMnx5h5N_Q
https://youtu.be/zUjSRdYwrC4
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many powerfull "players" are on our side on this issue
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Australia Pseudo-ku
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Re: net neutrality threatened

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Post by Pseudo-ku »

this doesn't apply to australia though

how can you lose net neutrality when you don't have internet in the first place
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Dolan »

I don't see how US legislation can apply to the rest of the world.

Twitch has servers in Europe too, which are not bound by US law, afaik.

So, imo, it's just an USA issue.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by roiarthurbis »

Dolan wrote:I don't see how US legislation can apply to the rest of the world.

Twitch has servers in Europe too, which are not bound by US law, afaik.

So, imo, it's just an USA issue.

I think it's more of a precedent that it will set. The freedom icon of the world not having a neutral net.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

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Post by Dolan »

To me it looks like the logical effect of the American belief in the power of enterprise. As far as I know Americans always believed the government shouldn't mess with the free market and let things as unregulated as possible.

That's what happens when you let companies decide what's best for consumers.
roiarthurbis wrote:I think it's more of a precedent that it will set. The freedom icon of the world not having a neutral net.

I doubt this will have any effect in Europe. At least not in the EU. The EU is very strict about companies abusing their monopoly positions, see the recent €2.4 billion fine imposed by the EU on Google for antitrust issues.
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

In New Zealand we are always 20 years behind in technology so I wont be surprised if NZ just does nothing.

It is a bit concerning tho, however there are too many ways around this such as Tor etc for companies to really do anything.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Pseudo-ku »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:I wont be surprised if NZ just does nothing.


NZ will do nothing - if anything I expect them to do the opposite. I'm not sure about the NZ versions of Labor and Greens, but Greens are liberalistic, so there's no worry there. Labor are in favour of a market economy, with regulatory bodies. Market economists still want the market to function, so if we apply that theory to the freedom of the internet, I don't think their policies will change or be influenced by this.

Aus may do something to get in the pockets of America, but then again, American policies are not well-liked here, so I don't think anything will change. If Turnbull tries to make a move, there will be deep, strong backlash in the wider community.
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New Zealand JakeyBoyTH
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

Pseudo-ku wrote:
JakeyBoyTH wrote:I wont be surprised if NZ just does nothing.


NZ will do nothing - if anything I expect them to do the opposite. I'm not sure about the NZ versions of Labor and Greens, but Greens are liberalistic, so there's no worry there. Labor are in favour of a market economy, with regulatory bodies. Market economists still want the market to function, so if we apply that theory to the freedom of the internet, I don't think their policies will change or be influenced by this.

Aus may do something to get in the pockets of America, but then again, American policies are not well-liked here, so I don't think anything will change. If Turnbull tries to make a move, there will be deep, strong backlash in the wider community.


Not really its cause the politicians actually don't do anything and most stuff is decided by National.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Asateo »

There is the danger of precedent, even in Europe, where I'm from. Legislation is more stringent, protecting wise. But Lobbying can degrade that. (Look at GGO's, massive protest to totally ban, which worked, but now some corn GGO is allowed)
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Dolan wrote:I don't see how US legislation can apply to the rest of the world.

Twitch has servers in Europe too, which are not bound by US law, afaik.

So, imo, it's just an USA issue.

This won't be an issue in Europe because Europe isn't a modernized third world country. There's nothing wrong with helping out our American friends, though. I don't think this American idiocracy will function as a precedent for Europe, but as an American I would be very afraid of my government, knowing everything from the past few months.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by InsectPoison »

Dolan wrote:I don't see how US legislation can apply to the rest of the world.

Twitch has servers in Europe too, which are not bound by US law, afaik.

So, imo, it's just an USA issue.

Things like amazon prime, netflix, google etc things which everyone uses will be affected so it affects a lot more people.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by spanky4ever »

how can it not affect ppl outside USA, when they use Google, Youtube, Netflix, Facebook? when all those are USA companies??
Btw, both Google, Netflix and Facebook are giving their voice against killing of net neutrality. It maybe that they will win the competition against smaller sites, .... but at a cost for them, and for the ppl who want to access this web sites?? Why else would they protest against the regulation??
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Dolan »

@InsectPoison

All the big internet companies have separate servers for the European area. US laws won't apply outside the US.

@Mr_Bramboy
`a modernized third world country`

Which country is that?

iwillspankyou wrote:how can it not affect ppl outside USA, when they use Google, Youtube, Netflix, Facebook? when all those are USA companies??

I can't speak for the rest of the world, since I don't know their laws, but in the EU we have the Regulation on Open Internet Access, which came into effect in 2015 and which says that ISPs can't block or slow down data for competitive or commercial purposes.

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The text of the regulation is here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32015R2120

This probably applies to Norway too, since your country is part of the EEA (European Economic Area). Regulations are not optional legislation (like recommendations), they are meant to be 100% enforced by every EU country.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by spanky4ever »

thx for the info @Dolan
So ppl outside USA can take a big sigh of relief ...... for now
If I where i citizen of USA, I would protest this regulation, and hopefully you have already done that? USA ppl??
If not, here is Jamie Oliver giving you the recipe on why, and HOW
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by lemmings121 »

Dolan wrote:I can't speak for the rest of the world, since I don't know their laws, but in the EU we have the Regulation on Open Internet Access, which came into effect in 2015 and which says that ISPs can't block or slow down data for competitive or commercial purposes.


But dont get too confortable, because that not enough. With enough lobby, laws are flexible.

In brazil we also have a law that says the same thing, but providers (mainly mobile right now) are finding ways to bypass it.
the current thrend is "yea, everything is equal in our network, but we wont charge you for facebook, so thats extra!"

TIM (italian company afaik?) is pushing here for plans like "sign up our plan, for only xxR$ you have unlimited youtube acess! (oh wait, you want twitch? better pay for that extra data outside our shitty cap!

Their current goal is sell plans of mobile data with like 100mb of monthly use (lol!), where a few sites like youtube or google services wont count toward that fee. people of course complain that it hurts net neutrality, the companies argue that "not at all, we are selling a 100mb plan where you can acess everything, just like the law predicts, those free sites are just some gift we give to our costumers"

and you see... technically they are right, they are not "blocking or slowing down data for competitive or commercial purposes", they are just giving some free stuff because they are reeeeaaally good people :smile: :smile: :smile: :flowers:
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Dolan »

lemmings121 wrote:But dont get too confortable, because that not enough. With enough lobby, laws are flexible.

Recently the EU has removed any roaming charges on phone and data communications throughout the EU, despite big companies lobbying against it. So, I really doubt the EU lobby is nearly as strong as the US lobby. In fact, US companies don't even need someone to lobby for them, because the guy who heads the FCC, who came up with this anti-neutrality policy, used to be a Verizon employee. He's literally a lobbyist appointed to make laws.

Only in Murica..
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by lemmings121 »

Dolan wrote:Only in Murica..


Not only in Murica.

Source: I'm not in 'Murica.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Googol »

lemmings121 wrote:
Dolan wrote:Only in Murica..


Not only in Murica.

Source: I'm not in 'Murica.


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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Imperial Noob »

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Nauru Dolan
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Dolan »

lemmings121 wrote:
Dolan wrote:Only in Murica..


Not only in Murica.

Source: I'm not in 'Murica.

Yeah, I can see that. I meant "only in America the person (Ajit Pai) appointed to regulate an economic sector (telecommunications) can be a former employee of a company having a vested interest in that sector (Verizon)".

It's like a wolf being put in charge of regulating sheep security.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by lemmings121 »

Dolan wrote:
lemmings121 wrote:
Dolan wrote:Only in Murica..


Not only in Murica.

Source: I'm not in 'Murica.

Yeah, I can see that. I meant "only in America the person (Ajit Pai) appointed to regulate an economic sector (telecommunications) can be a former employee of a company having a vested interest in that sector (Verizon)".

It's like a wolf being put in charge of regulating sheep security.


yea you reeeeally dont get it, in brazil thats "a regular tuesday"
recently there were some new developments in politics here, and the official "house of cards" twitter account posted that "is getting hard to compete with reality."
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by Dolan »

No offence, but nobody would take Brazil as an example.

You expect this sort of thing to happen in corrupt countries, but the USA claims they're the leader of the free world.

And there are many developed democracies where this doesn't happen. Only in Murica, which claims to be a cut above the rest could such a thing happen. This makes it unexpected, if you ever did not expect it.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by lemmings121 »

Dolan wrote:No offence, but nobody would take Brazil as an example.

of course not, just pointing you that the world has one or two extra countries outside EU and USA :P

Dolan wrote:You expect this sort of thing to happen in corrupt countries, but the USA claims they're the leader of the free world.
And there are many developed democracies where this doesn't happen. Only in Murica, which claims to be a cut above the rest could such a thing happen. This makes it unexpected, if you ever did not expect it.


usa is just another shitfest tbf, and even worse in some parts because people will see those shit and stay quiet, because 'murica.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by lejend »

Thank goodness. Net Neutrality isn't what you think it is. It's essentially corporatism. Stop getting your info from corporate propagandists like John Oliver; he's a mouthpiece for Time Warner.

Through a misinformation campaign conducted with almost breathless expertise, Obama, backed by groups funded by nearly $200 million of George Soros and Ford Foundation resolve, has managed to convince an inordinate number of Americans that a lack of so-called “net neutrality” will result in evil, faceless telecom companies forcing you to wait hours to upload the family Kwanzaa pics to Instagram, while evil, faceless telecom executives can log on to evilfacelesstelecom.com in the blink of an eye. Of course, anyone who is reading this is rolling down the information superhighway at speeds that were unimaginable just a few years ago. Those speeds, which would presumably continue to improve on the same curve they’ve followed since the days of AOL dial-up, are possible only because of the continued improvements made by the same companies that are now being accused of throttling the life out of the Web. As FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai noted earlier this week, net neutrality is “a solution that won’t work to a problem that doesn’t exist.”

“Net neutrality” isn’t what you think it is. It won’t “level the playing field.” It will introduce government regulation to a nearly flawless model of free-market growth. Telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon and content providers like Netflix push an almost geometrically higher amount of traffic onto broadband than they accept. As a result, the broadband providers have responded by raising rates and/or lowering speeds (aka “slow-laning”) some content. Essentially, monster telecoms and content providers — Netflix is the most famous example — are demanding first-class seating in a 747 while paying jump seat-in-a-Piper prices. And they’ve managed to convince millions of people — not to mention the Democratic Party — that they’re the proverbial little guy, standing up to the corporate fat cats. Having successfully played themselves into the hearts and minds of every selfie-posting hipster from Brooklyn to Berkeley, they’ve further pushed the idea that the FCC should force the broadband providers to adhere to a federally structured framework of service and fees. Gigantic content delivery networks (CDNs) will now be able to dictate the terms of their agreements to broadband providers upon pain of civil — or even criminal –prosecution.

...

Net neutrality as imagined by Obama and Wheeler will not result in faster Internet speeds, an expansion of Internet service provider choices available to home consumers, a lowering of fees or even a reduction of lag times for those of you playing “Call of Duty” online. It will add government oversight where it is neither needed nor wanted. In actuality, by reclassifying the Internet under Title II of the Communications Act, net neutrality will add little more to your online experience beyond added fees (federal “common carrier” status always includes federal taxes). Down the road, those taxes fees will indubitably increase, as will government involvement with content. Ultimately, we’ll end up with the Ministry of Information issuing “blogging licenses.” But hey, at least you won’t have to deal with buffering the next time you watch “House of Cards” on Netflix.
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Re: net neutrality threatened

Post by AOEisLOVE_AOEisLIFE »

JakeyBoyTH wrote:In New Zealand we are always 20 years behind in technology so I wont be surprised if NZ just does nothing.


which is a cool thing dude, i lived a year in new zealand and a lot of things are right there and a lot more chill than in europe/ the US. enjoy it while it lasts..

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