Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

jesus3 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Generally it goes, "x worked in country much, much less smaller and culturally different than USA therefore it must work in USA too."


Of course historical and cultural context is to be considered, however I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to implement except for the big gun lobby. It's as much an educational matter as it is traditions and mindset. Actually I think you can take Europe as a whole as comparison and the US would still do way worse in gun related murders despite different levels of gun restriction between the european states

Not necessarily a matter of possibility but whether it is a solution to the problem.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

Just USA things.

*shrug*
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

Gendarme wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:I mean the holocaust is not "clear" or not, it's a fact. Then some people are ignorant and some aren't, but it doesn't make the fact unclear.
The same goes for gun control, it's just a fact that it's counter productive to allow guns. So it can't be unclear.
I, and probably most others, do not consider you the one to choose what is and is not a fact. If you wish to have a discussion and argue, which I know you generally like to do and which I also appreciate, stating that you are right and the other part is wrong achieves nothing constructive and you probably know that.

Wait are you a holocaust denier
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Gendarme »

@deleted_user4 That was mostly a response to "it's just a fact that it's counter productive to allow guns", but claiming that you are correct is unproductive regardless of the topic of discussion, whether gun control or holocaust. The answer to your question is no.
Pay more attention to detail.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

phew
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

Seems like a warm-up to me. They're just getting better and better at it.

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Heck, in 15 years, it could reach a few hundred victims. And still, Muricuns will vote to keep their gunz.

They're gonna still keep arguing that if those people in the crowd each had their own gun, this wouldn't have happened, they would have shot the shooter. So the answer is -- "needs more guns" -- as usual.

Not sure why we should care, tbh. It's not like they can't do anything about it, it's something of their own making.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

A bit heartless.

I'm not seeing any narrative that would suggest the shooting would have gone differently with guns in the victims hands. He was shooting from the 32nd floor even a police man couldn't hit there with a handgun. He was shooting for 10-15 minutes before police knocked down his door.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong but you're coming off awfully apathetic. Gun control could work or it might not. It's a complicated issue that probably deserves more than "lel americans."
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

My sincere condolences to the American people.
Mass shooting can happen everywhere, with or without regulations on automatic guns. Its not a straight forward answer to get rid of the automatic/warfare guns, cos ppl who really want them, can always find a way of getting them.

When that is said, easier accsess to automatic guns will most likely increase the risk of these things to take place.

With Trump in office, there is no way these guns will be regulated - and that is very sad.
For those who defend the right to wear arms, please explain to me what you can use an assalt weapon for. Sertently not for going hunting for moose, and sertantly not for self defence? I simply cannot find any good arguments for allowing these weapons to be something ordinary citizens should be allowed to own.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by jesus3 »

having seen the speeches about puerto rico, I'm sure the orange manages to fuck up once again to at least give proper condolences
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by lordraphael »

Its horrible what happened, but what i find even worse is the conclusion people draw from it. Stock prices of weapon manufacturers have already gone up and investors expect it to increase even further, becasue they expect a run for more weapons.
How stupid can people be, the weapons which caused this drama, because they are so easily accesible, are now seen as the mean to prevent future massacres from happening. Even if all of those festival attendants had been armed casualties wouldnt have been lower, infact they mighthave been higher because of the danger that others would have started shooting blindly into the crowd.

But hey, its not my country, still sad to see.

seems like dolan was faster :P, @deleted_user4 idk at this point I cant blame anyone if they act like that, the story repeats itself countless of times in america and people always act the same, its amazing how stupid people can be.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

iwillspankyou wrote:My sincere condolences to the American people.
Mass shooting can happen everywhere, with or without regulations on automatic guns. Its not a straight forward answer to get rid of the automatic/warfare guns, cos ppl who really want them, can always find a way of getting them.

When that is said, easier accsess to automatic guns will most likely increase the risk of these things to take place.

With Trump in office, there is no way these guns will be regulated - and that is very sad.
For those who defend the right to wear arms, please explain to me what you can use an assalt weapon for. Sertently not for going hunting for moose, and sertantly not for self defence? I simply cannot find any good arguments for allowing these weapons to be something ordinary citizens should be allowed to own.

You're right republican-controlled congress will not pass anti gun legislature.

However while automatic guns are technically legal to purchase they are extremely difficult to get a hold of. They're heavily regulated with multiple permits being required and severe restrictions placed upon them. I believe the guns the shooter used were semi automatic in nature with illegal modifications to provide automatic firing. It is not difficult to illegally modify these weapons to make them automatic. Not pushing a narrative here but trying to clear some potential misconceptions.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by kami_ryu »

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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

deleted_user wrote:A bit heartless.

I'm not seeing any narrative that would suggest the shooting would have gone differently with guns in the victims hands. He was shooting from the 32nd floor even a police man couldn't hit there with a handgun. He was shooting for 10-15 minutes before police knocked down his door.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong but you're coming off awfully apathetic. Gun control could work or it might not. It's a complicated issue that probably deserves more than "lel americans."

I am aware that I come off as heartless and apathetic, but seriously, how many times did we see this in recent times? I only have a limited amount of compassion and that is getting depleted by the everyday constant stream of news about killings, rapes, and violence that the media report. At some point you just become numb from so much exposure to negative news.

I would feel worse about this if you guys couldn't do anything, but imo you can do something about this. So, if you can, do it, if you can't then indeed, it's tragic.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by deleted_user »

lordraphael wrote:Its horrible what happened, but what i find even worse is the conclusion people draw from it. Stock prices of weapon manufacturers have already gone up and investors expect it to increase even further, becasue they expect a run for more weapons.

Stock prices went up because tragedies like this threaten gun control laws. It's supply and demand but I know we already had a short conversation about the difficulties of understanding basic economics
lordraphael wrote:How stupid can people be, the weapons which caused this drama, because they are so easily accesible, are now seen as the mean to prevent future massacres from happening. Even if all of those festival attendants had been armed casualties wouldnt have been lower, infact they mighthave been higher because of the danger that others would have started shooting blindly into the crowd.

Agreed. Certainly not in this scenario anyways. Again, that isn't the narrative that is being pushed right now. There is discussion to be had for tighter gun control in general. I haven't seen a single person or source say if the crowd had guns they'd be safer. The surge to buy guns is not necessarily an immediate reaction for personal safety by the public.

lordraphael wrote:seems like dolan was faster :P, @deleted_user4 idk at this point I cant blame anyone if they act like that, the story repeats itself countless of times in america and people always act the same, its amazing how stupid people can be.

it is amazing
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by kami_ryu »

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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:Generally it goes, "x worked in country much, much smaller and culturally different than USA therefore it must work in USA too."

look at the statistics and youll find out that it would indeed work. It doesnt work only in smaller countries. If you look at bigger nations youll see it works aswell. India for example which is an extremely heterogen country doesnt have those problems or china etc. Ofc you wont be able to reach same situations like in very wealthy, small and cultural homegenous nations but it would certainly improve the situation drastically.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/coun ... eaths.html
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by spanky4ever »

deleted_user wrote:
iwillspankyou wrote:My sincere condolences to the American people.
Mass shooting can happen everywhere, with or without regulations on automatic guns. Its not a straight forward answer to get rid of the automatic/warfare guns, cos ppl who really want them, can always find a way of getting them.

When that is said, easier accsess to automatic guns will most likely increase the risk of these things to take place.

With Trump in office, there is no way these guns will be regulated - and that is very sad.
For those who defend the right to wear arms, please explain to me what you can use an assalt weapon for. Sertently not for going hunting for moose, and sertantly not for self defence? I simply cannot find any good arguments for allowing these weapons to be something ordinary citizens should be allowed to own.

You're right republican-controlled congress will not pass anti gun legislature.

However while automatic guns are technically legal to purchase they are extremely difficult to get a hold of. They're heavily regulated with multiple permits being required and severe restrictions placed upon them. I believe the guns the shooter used were semi automatic in nature with illegal modifications to provide automatic firing. It is not difficult to illegally modify these weapons to make them automatic. Not pushing a narrative here but trying to clear some potential misconceptions.


I quote this from an article I just read>:
Nevada has some of the most-relaxed gun laws in the country, a legislative condition that is sure to come under renewed scrutiny in the wake of the worst mass shooting in U.S. history on Sunday night in Las Vegas.

Nevada law does not require firearms owners to have licenses, register their weapons, or limits the number of firearms an individual posses. Automatic assault weapons and machine guns are also legal in the state as long as they are registered and are possessed in adherence to federal law, according to the National Rifle Association.
https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... Czd2uccPTo

Maybe those laws will be up for revision soon? I hope they will.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by lordraphael »

deleted_user wrote:
lordraphael wrote:Its horrible what happened, but what i find even worse is the conclusion people draw from it. Stock prices of weapon manufacturers have already gone up and investors expect it to increase even further, becasue they expect a run for more weapons.

Stock prices went up because tragedies like this threaten gun control laws. It's supply and demand but I know we already had a short conversation about the difficulties of understanding basic economics
lordraphael wrote:How stupid can people be, the weapons which caused this drama, because they are so easily accesible, are now seen as the mean to prevent future massacres from happening. Even if all of those festival attendants had been armed casualties wouldnt have been lower, infact they mighthave been higher because of the danger that others would have started shooting blindly into the crowd.

Agreed. Certainly not in this scenario anyways. Again, that isn't the narrative that is being pushed right now. There is discussion to be had for tighter gun control in general. I haven't seen a single person or source say if the crowd had guns they'd be safer. The surge to buy guns is not necessarily an immediate reaction for personal safety by the public.

lordraphael wrote:seems like dolan was faster :P, @deleted_user4 idk at this point I cant blame anyone if they act like that, the story repeats itself countless of times in america and people always act the same, its amazing how stupid people can be.

it is amazing

im not sure if youre implying i dont understand basic economy, but what you mentionend is only a part of the truth, sure its true that part of the demand for weapons and therefore increased stockprizes come from the fear of stricter gun laws, but there are lots ofpeople out there that will buy weapons because they think that they and the people around them, are safer with weapons, which is the completly wrong approach.
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

kami_ryu wrote:People who think that guns in the hands of people in the crowd would have solved anything are clueless as far as I'm concerned. I have people around me who have concealed carry and talk about how they would be ready for an active shooter situation. I'm like ... wellp, elle oh elle.

I don't think this is the thread for discussing gun regulations though. I've beaten that topic to death before and still haven't heard solid arguments for your silly, anti-liberty, gun bans. Half my coworkers are have concealed carry and carry lethal weapons on them. I don't feel unsafe at all about it.

It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem.

I think this thread is more about the Vegas victims, though. What's being done to help, etc. I'll try not to derail the topic.

I was being sarcastic, obviously throwing more guns at it can't solve it either. But that's the usual meme-argument used by the right-wing in the USA: they didn't have enough guns to defend themselves.

I still believe this is not just a mental health problem, because motives to kill can be varied. It can be religious beliefs, it can be political issues or revenge killings for perceived discrimination or injustice, it can be mental health, or a terrorist cause. The common thread is easy access to mass-killing devices, no matter what your motive is.

I fail to see how gun ownership helps Americans have less criminality than other countries than if guns were banned. Last time I checked, the USA has the highest rate of imprisoned individuals per 100.000 in the entire world. So, it seems guns don't deter any significant criminality. It could be argued, rather, that they encourage criminality.

It's not just an American problem though, it's worldwide.

Seriously, wtf are you talking about. We never had mass shootings in Eastern Europe. And we banned personal ownership of guns (with a few, tightly regulated exceptions, like hunters and people who need special armed protection and can only get it via judicial decision).
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by JakeyBoyTH »

This is pretty shocking to be honest. The US really needs more gun control. Allowing guns in a retirement home is also not a very good idea. When you reach that age you start to go a bit loopy. This is absolutely awful news and could have been avoided.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

Yeh, that's the punchline, it could have been avoided. But they don't want to do anything about it. They prefer it this way.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by frostibite »

Oh yeah.

I forgot this community mainly consists of european fruit loops that are in denial of their own refugee crisis
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by momuuu »

I aint in denial of me refugees. I've been poppin' their heads off with my shotgun that I illegally shipped from 'Murica. We Europeans can handle our shit.
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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Dolan »

@frosty
I live in Europe and we barely have any refugees here.

@kami_ryu
Sorry, I was actually wrong. Seychelles is the country with the highest incarceration rate. The USA is a mere second.

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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

Post by Asateo »

frostibite wrote:Oh yeah.

I forgot this community mainly consists of european fruit loops that are in denial of their own refugee crisis


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