Las Vegas Mass Shooting Thread

[spanky4ever]

Gun regulation is sertantly a part of the answer, but you cannot explain it all by that.
You could say that better regulations could reduce the amount of victims - and I believe that. But even in peacefull countries like my own, with strict guncontrol and ban agains assault weapons ----- we had a massmurder of 69 young ppl by a nazi maniac in 2011.
https://www.google.no/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... kjjSAXoAaE

[frostibite]

@frosty
I live in Europe and we barely have any refugees here.

@kami_ryu
Sorry, I was actually wrong. Seychelles is the country with the highest incarceration rate. The USA is a mere second.

Do you live in a cave?

[lordraphael]

Oh yeah.

I forgot this community mainly consists of european fruit loops that are in denial of their own refugee crisis

that refugee crysis hasnt produced mass shootings so far, of course bringing in refugees increases the likelyness of terrorsts attack, but having guns everywhere increases the chance of violent deaths far more than the number of refugees and the increased chance of terrorist attacks ever could. But youre most likely a troll so ill stop responding to you.

[Dolan]

@frostibite

Don't tell me your opinion on Europe is based only on interwebs memes. Coz I got news for you, buddy.

[InsectPoison]

You can not blame this massacre on gun control because the guns this person had access to were all illegal and were most likely purchased on the black market not at your local gun store, get the facts right before blabbering on about your agenda.

[kami_ryu]

-- deleted post --

[Gendarme]

The new meta in terrorism seems to be to run trucks into crowds, and it is very effective. I don't think there's any way to stop someone from killing a lot of people if they really want to and aren't afraid of the consequences. As I see it the problem is not the existence of guns or trucks, but the underlying reason these mass-murderers decide to kill. It is very possible that the reason is not the same for every case of mass-killing, and some reasons may be more complex than others (e.g. some crazy dude with no apparent rational motive vs a jihadist who was sent to Europe by IS to kill) but I think this is the interesting topic of discussion - not whether guns should be banned or not.

[kami_ryu]

-- deleted post --

[Dolan]

Yeah, but, can you honestly argue that banning guns would not reduce the number of shootings in the US?

You gotta start somewhere. And if you reduce only 1/3 of such events, it's still something rather than just continuing as it is.

[Gendarme]

What if by banning guns you don't reduce gun-murders significantly, but increase robberies among other crimes by a lot? It is certainly an important topic, and should be discussed more than it currently is, in my opinion.

[lordraphael]

quite frankly I dont see your point. Yes theres a low chance that more restrictive gun laws wont make any difference ( here i want to add that neither do I believe nor are we talking about super harsh laws), basically what youre saying is the you cant stop the violence so you might aswell keep it as it is, which is the completly wrong approach if a system is flawed you should at least try to improve /change it and not be fatalistic and retain the status quo.

[lordraphael]

It's not just an American problem though, it's worldwide.

Seriously, wtf are you talking about. We never had mass shootings in Eastern Europe. And we banned personal ownership of guns (with a few, tightly regulated exceptions, like hunters and people who need special armed protection and can only get it via judicial decision).

Eastern Europe is not "worldwide"

I am referring to France, Germany, Norway, America, South America, Africa, etc.

Personal ownership of guns isn't a problem. I maintain that it's disingenuous to say that there is complete correlation between personal firearms and criminality. There is definitely a relation between the two but pretending that personal firearms are the sole catalyst of events like these is bollocks.

I'm not too interested in discussing this topic again because I've already talked about it enough for my lifetime, but I will at least say that USA's incarceration rate and its gun ownership rate are more than likely NOT related. A ton of that incarceration is for black people committing super petty crimes like having drugs or something. It's an industry in the US. It's a bad industry, don't get me wrong. However it's not related to the amount of firearms people have. That has more to do with ingrained racism in American culture.

the point is not whether less firerarms mean less incarcerations the question is less firerarms = less deaths, which statistics highly indicate btw.

[frostibite]

Oh yeah.

I forgot this community mainly consists of european fruit loops that are in denial of their own refugee crisis

that refugee crysis hasnt produced mass shootings so far, of course bringing in refugees increases the likelyness of terrorsts attack, but having guns everywhere increases the chance of violent deaths far more than the number of refugees and the increased chance of terrorist attacks ever could. But youre most likely a troll so ill stop responding to you.

Mass shootings isn't the only way terrorists kill people. You have people ramming semi trucks into crowds of people. Open your eyes. Citizens owning guns is the only reason USA exists in the first place. Please revisit elementary level history lessons.

You won't get it anyway because you have been spoonfed socialist propaganda your whole life.

Having different political views does not mean you have to resort to 'ad hominem' in your last two sentences. Instead you should always try to share your own political views with your opponents in a respectful manner (and toxin-free). On a side note, this is an international forum, so please do not expect everyone to know every single detail in US history.

[JakeyBoyTH]

Oh yeah.

I forgot this community mainly consists of european fruit loops that are in denial of their own refugee crisis

that refugee crysis hasnt produced mass shootings so far, of course bringing in refugees increases the likelyness of terrorsts attack, but having guns everywhere increases the chance of violent deaths far more than the number of refugees and the increased chance of terrorist attacks ever could. But youre most likely a troll so ill stop responding to you.

Mass shootings isn't the only way terrorists kill people. You have people ramming semi trucks into crowds of people. Open your eyes. Citizens owning guns is the only reason USA exists in the first place. Please revisit elementary level history lessons.

You won't get it anyway because you have been spoonfed socialist propaganda your whole life.

We have reached the point where a troll takes over an ESOC thread.

[oxaloacetate]

It's not just an American problem though, it's worldwide.

Seriously, wtf are you talking about. We never had mass shootings in Eastern Europe. And we banned personal ownership of guns (with a few, tightly regulated exceptions, like hunters and people who need special armed protection and can only get it via judicial decision).

Eastern Europe is not "worldwide"

I am referring to France, Germany, Norway, America, South America, Africa, etc.

Personal ownership of guns isn't a problem. I maintain that it's disingenuous to say that there is complete correlation between personal firearms and criminality. There is definitely a relation between the two but pretending that personal firearms are the sole catalyst of events like these is bollocks.

I'm not too interested in discussing this topic again because I've already talked about it enough for my lifetime, but I will at least say that USA's incarceration rate and its gun ownership rate are more than likely NOT related. A ton of that incarceration is for black people committing super petty crimes like having drugs or something. It's an industry in the US. It's a bad industry, don't get me wrong. However it's not related to the amount of firearms people have. That has more to do with ingrained racism in American culture.

You're usually very diligent with your posts and obviously did not put your heart into this, so I do not intend to come out to strong, but you can't say "it's a problem worldwide", then arbitrarily exclude because it doesn't fit the profile eastern-europe, mention norway (who has had ONE mass shooting in its recorded history), add a continent and a quasi-continent and call it an argument for shooting being a worldwide problem. Logic.

What if by banning guns you don't reduce gun-murders significantly, but increase robberies among other crimes by a lot? It is certainly an important topic, and should be discussed more than it currently is, in my opinion.

???

Are you arguing that robberies in the US are kept from increasing in frequency by the fact that private people own guns?
Can you please elaborate on this matter, or did you just chose and arbitrary example trying to say that doing X may cause Y?

Nothing is going to be done about this, since the NRA already have the politicians by the balls.

Yea, the US is a tragedy tbh.

[noissance]

Nothing is going to be done about this, since the NRA already have the politicians by the balls.

[Gendarme]

@lordraphael You misunderstood me. My view is that the legality of guns is not a big problem, if at all, regarding murders (because of reasons already stated here and in the gun control thread), but it is very positive for other reasons (explained in the gun control thread). Banning guns would be very bad. I do think murders are a big problem, especially in USA, but I think they are a problem despite of their second amendment, not because of it. The constitution of the USA is probably the single thing that has kept it from falling into chaos for so long, I think.

[kami_ryu]

-- deleted post --

[lordraphael]

@lordraphael You misunderstood me. My view is that the legality of guns is not a big problem, if at all, regarding murders (because of reasons already stated here and in the gun control thread), but it is very positive for other reasons (explained in the gun control thread). Banning guns would be very bad. I do think murders are a big problem, especially in USA, but I think they are a problem despite of their second amendment, not because of it. The constitution of the USA is probably the single thing that has kept it from falling into chaos for so long, I think.

thats a very strange view and i simply disagree, lets leave it at that.

[noissance]

Don't ban the guns, ban the ammo. You can hang your m16's and dragunov's on your wall for all i care. The constitution only guarantees the right to have a gun, not to load it.

[zoom]

In a country with 350 million pop, there has to be few psychos here and there. Its a rule of probability.....

1. That doesn't mean society has to actively arm them. 2. Says the Serbian. 3. Says the Swede.

[Dolan]

@kami_ryu
Well yeah I haven't been in that gun control thread much and just like you I don't have much time to waste on this. So I'm just shooting a couple of ideas here, for what it's worth.

But going back to your arguments, whether you want to reply or not, I fail to see how this is a worldwide issue. And surely comparing USA violence with Africa violence doesn't quite help your argument, doesn't it? Africa is a far more chaotic and troubled continent than the USA and nobody even expects them to have a rule of law or living standards that would pacify people. Heck, they can't even maintain proper borders, like a proper state (which is why so many refugees are pouring in to Western Europe).

ignoring the fact that just as deadly massacres have taken place in Norway, France and many other developed countries

Norway was a one-off, you can't look at the history of mass killings in Norway and see a line of victims similar to that from the US.

[spoiler=big graph][/spoiler]
We're talking about a steady rate of killings here, not a one-off event.

Terror killings in Western Europe were directly caused by the war in Syria and the rise of ISIS. And Merkel's mistake of letting in more than a million refugees without any proper control. If the USA wasn't one ocean away from Europe, it would have been invaded by refugees too. And you'd have more terror killings too. But since it's more difficult for Muslims from the Middle East and for Africans and Afghans to migrate en masse to the USA, of course there are fewer Muslim terror attacks in the USA. Proximity/distance makes the difference.

I'm going to post a bunch of stats to get a better idea about trends:



A more colourful impression of gun ownership by country:













Most gun-related homicides are usually suicides. For example:



Australia took some measures, they banned guns and their stats improved.



On the other hand, some stats claim that gun ownership is declining in the US:



And so is the number of firearm homicide deaths:



Finally, support for gun ownership has been on an ascending slope:



And such shooting events don't sway Muricuns' opinion on guns much:



So, cya next shooting, when we're gonna argue about the same things.

[gibson]

Guns should be illegal. Unfortunately we're far past the point of that being practical, so we will have to make due with strict regulations.

[Goodspeed]

So, cya next shooting, when we're gonna argue about the same things.

Yeah.. which is sad but over time people might start to see stricter gun regulations are necessary. I think you're preaching to the choir here, though.

[frostibite]

Maybe being brain washed and playing a dead RTS goes hand in hand. Someone should do a study on it

User has been warned for this post. Reason: You are going way too far. No one is getting brain-washed here, nor are we playing a dead RTS game! This is the second time you have resort to "ad hominem" (that has been reported by other users) in a single thread. By saying so, you are insulting the entire community and being extremely disrespectful.