Rex Tillerson and the Unraveling of the State Department

[fightinfrenchman]

I'm finally back to the forums after an exciting summer vacation!

I very much enjoyed this article from the New York Times Magazine.

The State Department seems like it is barely keeping itself together, and as expected Rex Tillerson is doing a pretty bad job leading it (although anyone would likely have a hard time with Trump at the head). I can't imagine Tillerson lasting more than a few more months in the job at tops.

What are your thoughts on the recent developments regarding the State Department? What will be the reaction of our allies and adversaries?

[gustavusadolphus]

you should have a neither option.

[jesus3]

He's barely keeping the whole administration together with some few other rather sane people. Can't look much after himself there

[n0el]

It’s both although I’m sure there’s some job and budget cutting that makes sense. The bigger problem is that Trump’s tweets undercut any possibility of Tillerson being effective. See Iran or North Korea.

[deleted_user]

I listened to a great interview on NPR with George Schultz, the Reagan administration Secretary of State who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War. In that he was asked about Trump and Tillerson and their relationship. Schultz basically said Trump tweets contradict Tellerson's negotiations and undermine his bargaining power as an ambassador of the United States.

Here's the full transcript: http://www.npr.org/2017/10/04/555710502 ... tillersons

[lordraphael]

USA is a mess. Lets face it from what ive seen Tillerson doesnt even do a bad job considering he has fucking donald trump sabotaging every move he makes. He seems to be a reasonable man. Its really hard to judge any of the US ministers atm because they all suffer and benefit at the same time from having donald trump as their boss. They Suffer becuase even if they wanted to make a good job they simply cant ( see what noel said ), they benefit from it because no matter what idiots they are theres always a greater idiot, DT

[noissance]

This whole mess could be solved if Trump was banned on Twitter. Whether or not the company has the balls to do it is another thing entirely.

[Laurence Drake]

Great poll, thanks.

[Dolan]

Trump has a personal obsession with the media. This goes back to when he played some cameo parts in a few movies, appeared in a couple of night shows, had his own TV show and so on.

You can clearly see that he undercuts anyone from his team, if he thinks they are getting too much media coverage compared to what he thinks he needs to get. That was one of the reasons he chopped Bannon down in one fell swoop. He was making Trump less visible in the media's eyes.

So, as soon as Tillerson made an appearance in all the major media outlets explaining the USA's position on the NK situation, Trump made sure he tweeted something that was stupid enough that the media couldn't resist spreading it.

[fightinfrenchman]

I must say I appreciated the mention of Bombay sapphire in the article

[Rikikipu]

What's the worst about North Korea case, 8 years of laissez-faire with Obama or 5 tweets from Donald Trump ?

[fightinfrenchman]

What's the worst about North Korea case, 8 years of laissez-faire with Obama or 5 tweets from Donald Trump ?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean here but Trump is definitely worse at dealing with delicate situations than Obama

[deleted_user]

What's the worst about North Korea case, 8 years of laissez-faire with Obama or 5 tweets from Donald Trump ?

Probably the one in which the President and the Secretary of State can communicate effectively and in which the Secretary holds the full bargaining power of the United States.

[Papist]

What's the worst about North Korea case, 8 years of laissez-faire with Obama or 5 tweets from Donald Trump ?

When the tweets have brought us to the brink of war, I have to say that they're far worse.

[n0el]

What's the worst about North Korea case, 8 years of laissez-faire with Obama or 5 tweets from Donald Trump ?

When the tweets have brought us to the brink of war, I have to say that they're far worse.

Obama's team handled Iran, which over the past 8 years posed a much bigger issue. Now North Korea is a big issue because Trump has made it so.

[fightinfrenchman]

The only real solution is going to be accepting them as a nuclear power, unless you're ready for millions of innocents on both sides to die.

[n0el]

I agree. Accept their Nuclear ambitions and work to bring them into the international community.

[gibson]

bring back obama!

[fightinfrenchman]

bring back obama!

I would support a constitutional amendment to allow presidents to have unlimited termsh

[jesus3]

Well, limited terms do make more sense in presidential Systems like the US than in parliamentary Systems like Germany (we have no upper limit as to now) since it's more prone to demagoges and authoritarian rule. Extending those may seem favorable with a "good" president, but what if a "bad" one exploits that? Crafting public opinion is a powerful tool as you can see at the Trump administration and combined with the preisdent's power to control it to some extent it can be fatal to the system. Even more so with no term limitations or extensions to - lets say - four terms max.

[lordraphael]

Well, limited terms do make more sense in presidential Systems like the US than in parliamentary Systems like Germany (we have no upper limit as to now) since it's more prone to demagoges and authoritarian rule. Extending those may seem favorable with a "good" president, but what if a "bad" one exploits that? Crafting public opinion is a powerful tool as you can see at the Trump administration and combined with the preisdent's power to control it to some extent it can be fatal to the system. Even more so with no term limitations or extensions to - lets say - four terms max.

its a no brainer that no head of state should be allowed to have more than 2 terms ( maybe 3 ). IN germany the same rule should be applied for the chancellor ( again not more than 3 maybe 4 terms because hes not directly voted by the people )

[fightinfrenchman]

Well, limited terms do make more sense in presidential Systems like the US than in parliamentary Systems like Germany (we have no upper limit as to now) since it's more prone to demagoges and authoritarian rule. Extending those may seem favorable with a "good" president, but what if a "bad" one exploits that? Crafting public opinion is a powerful tool as you can see at the Trump administration and combined with the preisdent's power to control it to some extent it can be fatal to the system. Even more so with no term limitations or extensions to - lets say - four terms max.

its a no brainer that no head of state should be allowed to have more than 2 terms ( maybe 3 ). IN germany the same rule should be applied for the chancellor ( again not more than 3 maybe 4 terms because hes not directly voted by the people )

How is that a "no brainer"? There are often good presidents who people would love to have serve more than 2 terms but can't.

[lordraphael]

Well, limited terms do make more sense in presidential Systems like the US than in parliamentary Systems like Germany (we have no upper limit as to now) since it's more prone to demagoges and authoritarian rule. Extending those may seem favorable with a "good" president, but what if a "bad" one exploits that? Crafting public opinion is a powerful tool as you can see at the Trump administration and combined with the preisdent's power to control it to some extent it can be fatal to the system. Even more so with no term limitations or extensions to - lets say - four terms max.

its a no brainer that no head of state should be allowed to have more than 2 terms ( maybe 3 ). IN germany the same rule should be applied for the chancellor ( again not more than 3 maybe 4 terms because hes not directly voted by the people )

How is that a "no brainer"? There are often good presidents who people would love to have serve more than 2 terms but can't.

its a no brainer for very obvious reasons. Power corrupts so a president who might have been a good one at start can turn into a really bad one. And obviously the longer a president is in charge the higher the chances of a coup. Its one of the easiest and most valuable defensive mechanism a democracy has and shouldnt be touched.

[Dolan]

How is that a "no brainer"? There are often good presidents who people would love to have serve more than 2 terms but can't.

Because the strength of a political system shouldn't be in leveraging the power of providential leaders, but in having good and balanced institutions.

[fightinfrenchman]

I think it's safe to say that Obama was less corrupt at the end of his second term than Trump is now