27 people lost their lives in a shooting, Sutherland Springs, Texas

[deleted_user0]

Well the debate is probably pointless anyways and unless anyone here is a philosopher it will probably be illy constructed too.

Well, you're in luck. I'll lay out a trolley problem on the subject soon.

[lordraphael]

phpBB [video]

This, minus the gender issue.

But this culture of shooting real firearms for fun or using guns to solve your problems (suicide, shooting sprees etc) is completely missing here, in Europe. The only situation in which real firearms are used here is for hunting, and that is very strictly regulated and checked. For target practice I think there are special non-lethal guns which are used and they can only be used in regulated places.

In general European countries are better places to live for most people. I mean the society here isn't as competetive, yet.

awesome

[WickedCossack]

Well the debate is probably pointless anyways and unless anyone here is a philosopher it will probably be illy constructed too.

Well, you're in luck. I'll lay out a trolley problem on the subject soon.

Yea you can actually form a good argument in favour of gun ownership around trolley problems depending on how you construct your morals.

[lordraphael]

i stoppped caring about these things a long time ago. I mean if its a terrorist attack sure, i care about that because its sth you have no control over. But rdm masshootings which pretty much happen every month ( in a size making it worth mentioning for medias abroad, iknow theres a lot more shootings than those big ones everyone talks about) and only happen because muricans love their guns so much.
THere im out, feels like america is like a child that keeps on touching the hot burner and is wondering why it hurts and then expects people to feel sorry for it.

Infact its not even a nice comparision becasue the kid might not even know better while america should know better.

[deleted_user0]

Well the debate is probably pointless anyways and unless anyone here is a philosopher it will probably be illy constructed too.

Well, you're in luck. I'll lay out a trolley problem on the subject soon.

Yea you can actually form a good argument in favour of gun ownership around trolley problems depending on how you construct your morals.

that's basically true for all arguments regarding civil liberties.

[deleted_user0]

It's seriously just group benefit vs individual benefit.

But it's not! It's in the individual benefit to have nobody, the individual himself included, have guns. That's how statistics work.

it's not exactly how it works though. it's a catch 22 sorta. Like truth and lying. It's in your benefit for nobody, including you to lie, to always tell the truth. But once that's the case, it's actually beneficial for one person, or small groups of people to lie. The benefits are of course short term... but when has that ever mattered in case of greed? And when that happens, everyone will start lying to protect themselves against anticipated liars.

The issue always boils down to being able to trust and depend on a stranger. Which leads to two kind's of people. Those who believe A) I won't trust anyone (until they've proven they can be trusted) and B I will trust everyone (until they've proven they can't be trusted. These two mentalities can't be reconciled.

[JulyBurnsOrange]

Ah this must be why you are on my pest list.

I have no idea who u are

[Garja]

Btw I don't know if it has been said already, but one of the victims actually fired back apparently. It was useless.

Gotta love the classic pro guns arguments. Rebellion, self-defense, etc. A 5yo kid could do better.

[jap_jon]

Here's a video interview of the guy who shot and chased the shooter down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8

[Inst]

An Indian writer has an excellent quote for this entire thing: "Even an eunuch feels like a man with a gun". Gun grabbing is like trying to rip people's genitals off, it's a cultural malaise but deeply entrenched in America.

[deleted_user]

Who's to say an eunuch cannot feel like a man regardless?

[milku3459]

I think if the current law had been implemented correctly, the gun wouldn't have ended up in this guys hands.
He was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. That alone would still allow him to own guns, but he was dishonorably discharged because of domestic abuse, which disqualifies him from gun ownership.
The Air Force failed to pass on the information to the relevant authorities and he ended up killing people before being stopped by an NRA instructor.
In this case, the current checks would have been enough to prevent the tragedy from occurring, but it was not properly enforced.
If not for Willeford and his quick, armed response, I think Kelley could have continued his rampage for a lot longer, considering that the little town is 27 miles away from the nearest big city and heavy police support.
It is completely unfair to blame the actions of a mentally ill man and the failure of governmental oversight on the millions of responsible gun users. This didn't happen because of "im murica i luv muh gun lolol", it happened because the law was not properly enforced.
That's the problem with banning guns. People intending to do harm will still find means to do it, illegal or not. All that happens is that the law-abiding citizen is disarmed.
What we need is a simple, well-enforced system of background checks and mental health tests that all prospective gun owners need to go through before buying a gun. That would filter out many of the mass shooters of the past 20 years imo

[momuuu]

If the law had been stricter it wouldnt have happened either though. I think in most countries you can use a gun for the shooting range only after thorough screening.

[WickedCossack]

@deleted_user

Where's mah trolley ethics ?!?!