Philosophical: Purge

This is for discussions about news, politics, sports, other games, culture, philosophy etc.

Would a Purge be beneficial to a nation?

Yes, yearly Purges of those who are underneath the 50th percentile would be beneficial to a nation.
5
15%
No, yearly Purges of those who are underneath the 50th percentile would not be beneficial to a nation.
28
85%
 
Total votes: 33

User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

What if:

At the age of 21 and once yearly after that point the residents of a country underwent a Test. The bottom 50% of that Test would be Purged - their assets liquidated and used to fund public education.

Provisions would be made to prevent dropping below a certain population level, allowing for exceptions to be made to pass the Test.

IE: If a limit of 100 million is set, and there are only 120 million people over 21 living, only a mere 20 million will be Purged.

If this was done, would the country be better off?

100 years later into the country's future, would they score higher amongst other countries than if they had not instituted such a measure?

For the purpose of the poll, assume that the Test was a completely unbiased and objective measure of an individuals intellect and knowledge amongst a wide array of relevant subjects.
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Lübeck

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Lol imagine you'd lose family members or friends to that, gl in your later life. Bad idea.
User avatar
Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 5033
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: edeholland
GameRanger ID: 4053888
Clan: ESOC

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by edeholland »

Is it the same test every year? What does the test even measure? Can you learn for the test through reading or physical experience with something? Does it test arbitrary knowledge or useful knowledge?
User avatar
Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 5033
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: edeholland
GameRanger ID: 4053888
Clan: ESOC

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by edeholland »

Lukas_L99 wrote:Lol imagine you'd lose family members or friends to that, gl in your later life. Bad idea.

He isn't asking whether it's a good or bad idea though, but whether a country with this rule in effect would have a higher score after 100 years.
User avatar
United States of America Cometk
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7257
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
Location: California

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Cometk »

it would simply be institutionalized poverty of the lower class. what reason would half your population have to work if they periodically have their assets taken away? how could money even exist in this society? why wouldn't the lower class rebel? this system wouldn't last 100 years, wouldn't last one year, would never become a reality

no reason for this hypothetical because it couldn't exist
Image
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Lübeck

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Lukas_L99 »

edeholland wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Lol imagine you'd lose family members or friends to that, gl in your later life. Bad idea.

He isn't asking whether it's a good or bad idea though, but whether a country with this rule in effect would have a higher score after 100 years.


No think of all the psychological consequences out of that. People wont be motivated for anything if they lost important people left and right.
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

edeholland wrote:Is it the same test every year? What does the test even measure? Can you learn for the test through reading or physical experience with something? Does it test arbitrary knowledge or useful knowledge?


For the purpose of the poll we are assuming that the test is perfectly unbiased and objective, only testing a wide array of relevant information pertaining to an individual's intellect and knowledge amongst relevant subjects. The test covers the same material every year, but the questions will obviously be different, so as to prevent cheating. You can learn the material on the test through public education provided by the country.

It measures your intelligence and knowledge amongst a wide array of subjects. Math, Language, History, etc
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Lol imagine you'd lose family members or friends to that, gl in your later life. Bad idea.

He isn't asking whether it's a good or bad idea though, but whether a country with this rule in effect would have a higher score after 100 years.


No think of all the psychological consequences out of that. People wont be motivated for anything if they lost important people left and right.


You'll be motivated to survive.
User avatar
Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 2059
Joined: Nov 15, 2015
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Lübeck

Re: Philosophical: Purge

  • Quote

Post by Lukas_L99 »

site wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
Show hidden quotes


No think of all the psychological consequences out of that. People wont be motivated for anything if they lost important people left and right.


You'll be motivated to survive.


I doubt that, who wants to live in a world like that XD
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 4276
Joined: Dec 28, 2016
ESO: Snuden
Location: Costa del Baphomet

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Snuden »

Maybe not 50%
Getting rid of the weakest would be beneficial for any nation I believe.
[Sith] - Baphomet
User avatar
Tuvalu gibson
Ninja
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 13597
Joined: May 4, 2015
Location: USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

  • Quote

Post by gibson »

site wrote:
edeholland wrote:Is it the same test every year? What does the test even measure? Can you learn for the test through reading or physical experience with something? Does it test arbitrary knowledge or useful knowledge?


For the purpose of the poll we are assuming that the test is perfectly unbiased and objective, only testing a wide array of relevant information pertaining to an individual's intellect and knowledge amongst relevant subjects. The test covers the same material every year, but the questions will obviously be different, so as to prevent cheating. You can learn the material on the test through public education provided by the country.

It measures your intelligence and knowledge amongst a wide array of subjects. Math, Language, History, etc
The problem is it's not an actual intelligence test, its a test of who studies the best.
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1899
Joined: Apr 26, 2017
ESO: gamevideo113

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by gamevideo113 »

What aspects do you think that the country would be better off without "dumb people" in @site ?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019 Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
No Flag kami_ryu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2196
Joined: Jan 2, 2017

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by kami_ryu »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

Well this wasn't perhaps worded in the best manner.

Country sets ideal population limit.

Yearly, anyone 21+ takes a test. Lowest scores are purged to bring country back to ideal population limit.

You are getting the inherent benefits of an ideal population, as well as a higher median intelligence level of the population.
No Flag kami_ryu
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2196
Joined: Jan 2, 2017

Re: Philosophical: Purge

  • Quote

Post by kami_ryu »

-- deleted post --

Reason: on request (off-topic bulk delete)
User avatar
United States of America Cometk
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7257
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
Location: California

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Cometk »

if there is ample public education why do you need to purge people at all?
Image
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

Cometk wrote:if there is ample public education why do you need to purge people at all?


To combat overpopulation and dwindling resources.
User avatar
United States of America Cometk
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7257
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
Location: California

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Cometk »

why not implement something like china's one child per family rule?
Image
User avatar
Spain Snuden
Jaeger
Posts: 4276
Joined: Dec 28, 2016
ESO: Snuden
Location: Costa del Baphomet

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Snuden »

Cometk wrote:why not implement something like china's one child per family rule?

Because it was a huge failure.

EDIT: And is no longer in effect.
[Sith] - Baphomet
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

Cometk wrote:why not implement something like china's one child per family rule?


Clearly, that isn't effective for China.

If China which is grossly overpopulated was to institute a Purge Program, they could quickly get their population under control. Additionally, the liquidated assets of the purged would be used to fund better public education and could even be used to address the pollution issues they have.
User avatar
Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1899
Joined: Apr 26, 2017
ESO: gamevideo113

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by gamevideo113 »

In the end you'd probably have people with an IQ of 140 working in factories or cleaning the streets. Is this quest for a high IQ population really necessary? I can see the benefit of avoiding overpopulation but it ends there.
This is basically like asking if society would have less stuff to handle if disabled people didn't exist. Surely. Can society work well even with disabled people in it? It surely can. Is it humanly acceptable to get rid of disabled people, and would it solve any bigger scale problem? Surely not.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019 Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

gamevideo113 wrote:In the end you'd probably have people with an IQ of 140 working in factories or cleaning the streets. Is this quest for a high IQ population really necessary? I can see the benefit of avoiding overpopulation but it ends there.
This is basically like asking if society would have less stuff to handle if disabled people didn't exist. Surely. Can society work well even with disabled people in it? It surely can. Is it humanly acceptable to get rid of disabled people, and would it solve any bigger scale problem? Surely not.


With the population at the ideal level, public education improved, and an overall increase in median intelligence, wouldn't it be fair to say that a society would quickly automate many of those factory jobs?

As a society would we not find ways to automate many of those entry level, mundane jobs so as to focus our efforts on those things which will further our progress as a society?
User avatar
United States of America Cometk
Retired Contributor
Posts: 7257
Joined: Feb 15, 2015
Location: California

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Cometk »

you're essentially saying this is a post-scarcity society but the only method you outline to achieve this is a fascist one

better way to improve the median intelligence would be to implement methods to end poverty, which could be accomplished through things like, as you say, funding public education... but you rather just kill all the poor people. well ok
Image
User avatar
United States of America site
Lancer
Donator 01
Posts: 713
Joined: Aug 7, 2016
ESO: site
Location: Oklahoma, USA

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by site »

Cometk wrote:you're essentially saying this is a post-scarcity society but the only method you outline to achieve this is a fascist one

better way to improve the median intelligence would be to end poverty, which would be accomplished through things like, as you say, funding public education... but you rather just kill all the poor people. well ok


Not just the poor people, but the mentally feeble, the disabled, those who don't apply themselves.

Public education will be widely improved and available to all, if you can't pass the Test at 21 and onwards, that's your fault.
User avatar
Sweden Gendarme
Gendarme
Donator 03
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sep 11, 2016
ESO: Gendarme

Re: Philosophical: Purge

Post by Gendarme »

50% seems too much to not cause chaos, at least in a non-orwellian society where the government can't keep everything under total control. If we say 5% per year instead, I think it would be much more feasible. I actually don't think there would be detrimental psychological consequences due to the deaths of loved ones as humans have lived in conditions far more deadly than a yearly 5% and thrived. In this case your survival wouldn't even be random (i.e. if you're a smart guy you'll survive your whole life without any problems), so it is psychologically probably easier than living in old tribal societies.

Having a smaller population would most certainly be beneficial, but we need to be careful to not introduce new problems on our way there. The question would be a lot easier to answer if it was out of our control and a periodical disease swept over our land and killed the bottom 5%, and in that case it's very possible that it would be beneficial, but not necessarily due to getting rid of the bottom 5%, but simply due to the reduction of the population size regardless of intelligence. I do not think this system is compatible with humanity because we are social beings. It goes against human nature to kill innocent people of their own pack, and this is basically the sole reason it wouldn't work. You apparently can't relate to this because you for some reason lack the ability to feel empathy.

Disregarding the killing of people, the question of whether higher average intelligence is beneficial or not remains. It does make sense, but one needs to be careful with assumptions. Humanity would probably vastly change with a significant increase of the average intelligence, and it is not obvious that it would result in a better society. I don't even know where to begin to analyse this either.
Pay more attention to detail.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV