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Cyprus Snuden
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17 Nov 2017, 17:19

I thought a permanent thread about cryptocurrency would be in order, so here it is.

It is meant as thread for those who either already are active on the crypto scene and/or for those who are curious about crypto.

So crypto-nerds, reveal your strategies, ask questions or simply just put on your tinfoil hat and hangout!

ATT Taxman, please see yourself out!
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 17:24

Yeah I'm probably going to invest in BTC on Monday. It is on an all-time high again despite a damn hard-fork inflating the amount of coins by 10%. If it fucking THRIVES during a hard-fork attack it seems very wasteful to not join the imminent rise to the stars.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
Cyprus Snuden
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Location: On the Blockchain

17 Nov 2017, 17:46

I will start...

1. You will need a wallet to store your bitcoins. I personally use http://www.blockchain.info
2. You have to buy bitcoins, I have never bought any myself but I hear good things about http://www.coinmama.com
3. Once you have bought your first bitcoins you should transfer them to your wallet, look at the wallet as a base for your coins and from there you can send them to wherever you want - for example to an exchange.
4. Signup at an exchange, I recommend http://www.poloniex.com

Once on the exchange you can see how the various coins are doing against BTC or USD (and a few other coins)

Here we see USD against coins http://prntscr.com/hbrw2t
And here we see BTC against various coins http://prntscr.com/hbrwps

BTC against BCH http://prntscr.com/hbrxh6 In order to buy BCH (http://prntscr.com/hbrxzv) you need to fill out how much in BTC you are willing to pay for the BCH. In this case we can see that the BCH cost 0.14626055 BTC. Just before making this thread I bought a little BCH so I could illustrate a real trade, here it is http://prntscr.com/hbrzkf

So if I were to sell now (since price went up) I would simply go to http://prntscr.com/hbs1i3 type in the amount I want to sell and how much (BTC) I want for it.

After closing the trade you can see the trade in your "history" account, it look like this http://prntscr.com/hbs31r as you can see it was sold to 2 different buyers.
Next and final step is to analyze the trade http://prntscr.com/hbs488 in this example I made a profit of 0.00027799 BTC http://prntscr.com/hbs56u

And thats it, you are now a cryptocurrency trader.

I should not have to say it, but I will anyway: ONLY INVEST IN CRYPTO WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE! It is extremely volatile and in most cases you don't know who is behind a certain service or site. There are TONS of scams out there exploiting new users.
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 17:54

I am not planning to buy actual Bitcoins, but rather buying exchange-traded certificates on the normal exchange. The fee is 2.5% per year so it is very negligible, and since it doesn't involve any multiplier it should be just fine.

But thanks for the information.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
Cyprus Snuden
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17 Nov 2017, 17:59

Gendarme wrote:I am not planning to buy actual Bitcoins, but rather buying exchange-traded certificates on the normal exchange. The fee is 2.5% per year so it is very negligible, and since it doesn't involve any multiplier it should be just fine.

But thanks for the information.

Whats the advantage of doing that?
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 18:05

It's as easy as buying stocks. You get them in your normal bank account, and buy and sell with the click of a button. There's no need for the hassle. Normally you don't invest in the long-term with certificates - absolutely not if they have a multiplier - but the fee is so low compared to the Bitcoin fluctuations that it really is negligible. Normally there are also bear-certificates (you buy them if you think the value is going down), but in this case there isn't. However, you can only trade when the stock market is open, which is why I have to wait until Monday.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
Cyprus Snuden
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17 Nov 2017, 18:11

They buy and sell the coins on exchanges like poloniex anyway, the only difference is that you dont pay a 2.5% fee to a broker and by going direct on a coin exchange you can trade 24/7/365 for as little or as much as you want.

Maybe I am missing something but I don't see the advantage at all.

If BTC is crashing, you will be hit regardless of where you bought them. Allah forbid it would crash on a Friday evening, because there wont be a damn thing you can do about it before Monday morning.
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 18:16

Yes, there is no benefit other than not having to go through the hassle of getting those initial Bitcoins (which you'd have to pay more than a 2.5% fee for probably) and setting up your wallet, and perhaps you trust the bank a bit more than Poloniex. There might be an issue with tax too if you buy Bitcoins. Taxation on stock market profits is quite low here ATM - very low. In fact, it doesn't matter if you profit or not, the taxed amount is purely based on your holdings and deposits, and the interest rate of the central bank.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
Cyprus Snuden
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17 Nov 2017, 18:25

I agree there's a hassle getting your first coins, but after that it's smooth sailing and gives you freedom to do whatever you want with your coins.

Yes, trust is a huge factor, which is why I mentioned Poloniex and especially blockchain.info (I think Richard Branson is co-owner of blockchain) Either way, they are probably the most trusted services in the crypto space.

IMO you are leaving out part of the fun, which is trading. You also exclude yourself from investing in crypto start-ups. But if your strategy is to buy and hold, then I guess it won't matter much.

I have left out any mention of tax on purpose. :smile:
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 18:33

Actually, if I wanted to be involved in crypto for a long I would get actual coins, but I have no idea how long I will be involved in this. I'm not really a great believer in cryptocurrency - at least not yet - so I'm not committing.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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India gh0st
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17 Nov 2017, 19:21

Gendarme wrote:I am not planning to buy actual Bitcoins, but rather buying exchange-traded certificates on the normal exchange. The fee is 2.5% per year so it is very negligible, and since it doesn't involve any multiplier it should be just fine.

But thanks for the information.

What exactly are those?
I'm guessing they are like ETFs and much less volatile than BTC?
like in terms of trading in equity, you trade in index/etf like SPY/DJIA rather than trading in highly volatile stocks?
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 19:32

No they aren't ETFs. They are basically one layer above futures contracts. What happens when you buy this certificate for $100 from the bank is that the bank itself buys Bitcoins for $100 on your behalf (or perhaps a futures contract on Bitcoins for $100) and when you decide to cash in the certificate the bank sells those Bitcoins and gives you all the money. The bank doesn't care what happens and only profits from the yearly 2.5% fee, at least in this case.

In other cases there are multipliers on the certificate. A multiplier of 10 would mean that if you buy certificates worth $100 the bank buys for $1000, which means that your wins and losses are multiplied by 10. There are also bear-certificates normally, although not in this case. Bear is the opposite of bull, which just means that the outcome is reversed: if the value goes down you win, and if it goes up you lose. This is the most simple explanation of it, and is practically all you need to know - but there's slightly more to it that we can go over if you're interested.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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Rainbow Land dave_12
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17 Nov 2017, 19:43

What is crypto?
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 19:46

duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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India gh0st
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17 Nov 2017, 19:46

alright, got it. Not much difference though, but sounds better as there is no tension regarding buying starting bitcoins and just trade it like a stock. Also, those multipliers are basically bank/broker providing you leverage.
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Sweden Gendarme
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17 Nov 2017, 20:01

Yes they are just leverage, but the thing with multipliers is that they stack multiplicatively. The nominal value of the certificates are updated once a day, which means that if the asset rises in value over the span of several days you profit more than if it had risen the same amount in one day - a simple snowball-effect. This also means that if the asset fluctuates but doesn't really move you're just going to lose money, and this is something the bank can take advantage of.

Here's an example:

You buy bull-certificates for The Coca Cola Company with a multiplier of 10 for $100. The next day the value of The Coca Cola Company rises by 11.1%, which means that your certificates are now worth 111% more - $211. The next day the value of The Coca Cola Company decreases by 10% back to its original value, which means that your certificates are now worth 100% less - $0. You just lost everything.
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
Cyprus Snuden
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18 Nov 2017, 09:04

Next logical step is to create Crypto Clan on ESO.
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Germany japanesegeneral
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Location: Germany

18 Nov 2017, 10:44

The Arena -Clan is a bitcoinclan already.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
Cyprus Snuden
Lancer
Posts: 556
ESO: Snuden
Location: On the Blockchain

18 Nov 2017, 11:18

japanesegeneral wrote:The Arena -Clan is a bitcoinclan already.

Clan grudge match coming up!
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Sweden Gendarme
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26 Nov 2017, 16:18

$9,000 hypeuuuuu
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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Finland somppukunkku
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26 Nov 2017, 16:31

Image
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Sweden Gendarme
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26 Nov 2017, 16:35

ez4bitcoin
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things
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No Flag Jam
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26 Nov 2017, 18:04

funnymunny
I was born in a deep forest,
I wish I could live here all my life.
I am made from stones and roots,
my home, these woods and roads.

All my life I loved this sound,
of the woods all around.
Eagles fly where the winds blows free,
journey is my destiny.
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No Flag lejend
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27 Nov 2017, 18:52

Can you actually cash out, though? I'm talking 10-20 thousand dollars, not 200. And how quickly?

@Gendarme @Snuden
“The Party cannot be neutral towards religion... because it stands for science, whereas... all religion is the antithesis of science.” - Stalin

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Sweden Gendarme
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27 Nov 2017, 18:56

You probably can, but you won't find a good conversion-rate between crypto and legal tender on any website, I think. Converting to another cryptocurrency is instant as long as you have your money on an exchange. A Bitcoin-transaction can take up to one hour, so I suppose that's how long it would take otherwise. You don't have to directly own Bitcoins to invest in them, though: https://xbtprovider.com/
duck wrote:man it really sucks when you have to agree with gendarme on things

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