The Passage of Time

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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

You can speed everything up or slow everything down but that literally has no meaning unless you're looking from a god perspective.
Which is exactly the perspective the entity that is looking from the outside into a simulated universe would be looking from. I refer again to the Black Mirror episode which illustrates that point quite well.
Anyway you repeated my point almost literally:
What it comes down to is: How quickly time moves is not relevant to anything or anyone inside that universe, it's only relevant to whatever is observing it from the outside.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Yes, thats possible.

God exists too.

Also the world seizes to exists when you look away. All human beings are actually robots and I'm the only sentient one. This is all only a dream. We're all brains in a jar on drugs hallucinating. Donald trump is actually an alien shapeshifter.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

:dry:
How insightful
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

I mean, yes cool idea, creative idea, but is it worth discussing as a serious idea? No.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by deleted_user »

Jerom the gatekeeper
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

Subjective of course, but I think it's worth discussing because it touches on many fundamental questions that we still struggle with. As such it can only serve to inspire thought about and deepen our understanding of our own perspective of reality.
Maybe our difference here is that I love speculating about things that might be, whereas you don't particularly like that and prefer to discuss things that are.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

How does it touch on fundamental questions we have? I'd rather discuss the actual fundamental questions :p
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

It touches on:
- Perception of reality
- The nature of time
- The limits of computational power
- Origin of the universe
- Determinism/randomness
- "Playing God"
Etc
I'd rather discuss the actual fundamental questions :p
Alright. Which one?
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Dolan »

Well basically if you are a photon inside a ray of light, you have no perception of time. At the speed you're travelling, you can't notice any changes, because nothing can travel/happen faster than you, so a perception cannot be formed. But things are so small at that scale, that no form of life that could be capable of perception could ever come into being. It would need bigger physical constructs for life to emerge and support perception.

Therefore, things need to slow down physically for causes and effects to become "spaced" enough and perception to take place.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Jam »

Jerom wrote:The truth about the inital post is that you're saying "what if everything is sped up then everybody and everyone and everything would feel and happen the same" yet somehow you're placing something or someone outside the system that's noticing a difference of speeding it up or not. Time as we have defined it is simply a relative thing. It is just how long it takes in between stuff. You can speed everything up or slow everything down but that literally has no meaning unless you're looking from a god perspective.
You mean my post or goodspeeds's?
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:It touches on:
- Perception of reality
- The nature of time
- The limits of computational power
- Origin of the universe
- Determinism/randomness
- "Playing God"
Etc
I'd rather discuss the actual fundamental questions :p
Alright. Which one?

What is dark matter? What is dark energy? What energy do quantum fluctuations give to empty space? How complete is our particle theory? What happened shortly after the big bang? What caused for hyperinflation to occur? How would relativity and quantummechanics be combined? Are there maybe different fundamental theories? Are there hidden variables in quantum mechanics? What about the fermi paradox? What would an advanced intergalactical civilization look like?

Perception of reality seems like a boring topic to discuss in this way. Ask a more fundamental question, like: Is energy a real thing or is it simply a human construct that works as a tool to calculate things?
The nature of time being discussed like this is uninteresting, since you're not changing anything within our system. You're just stating that hypothetically you can speed up something. Yes I know, I can play lectures at twice the speed, it is indeed really useful.
The limits of computational power are interesting to discuss, but within this context and with our expertise I don't see how this developes beyond "maybe theres some shit out there in that different universe that we can't think of"
I don't see how this is an interesting thing with regards to the origin of the universe. It's a wild theory, of which many can be made with equal validity. Actually, I dont even know if the origin of the universe is that interesting to discuss within this approach.
Why not just discuss determinism as is? Here the discussion is that it could indeed be possible that someone coded random elements into a universe, just like how it's possible that he didnt.
Playing god is somewhat interesting from this point of view I guess.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

I asked for only one, for a reason :P
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Dolan »

You forgot the most important one: what causes gravity?
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Jam »

Image
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Jam »

Dolan wrote:You forgot the most important one: what causes gravity?
ur mom
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Goodspeed wrote:I asked for only one, for a reason :P

oh I edited my post. Let's go with dark matter.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Dolan »

Jam wrote:
Dolan wrote:You forgot the most important one: what causes gravity?
ur mom

I doubt it, she lost a lot of weight lately.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Dolan wrote:Well basically if you are a photon inside a ray of light, you have no perception of time. At the speed you're travelling, you can't notice any changes, because nothing can travel/happen faster than you, so a perception cannot be formed. But things are so small at that scale, that no form of life that could be capable of perception could ever come into being. It would need bigger physical constructs for life to emerge and support perception.

Therefore, things need to slow down physically for causes and effects to become "spaced" enough and perception to take place.

REalistically the way we perceive time is simply relative to how long it takes for the earth to rotate around its axis. Whether everything that happens is sped up doesn't make anything change. The earth still rotates around the sun 365 days and in those 365 days the earth still rotates 365 times around its axis and we still do the same amount of things and we can still for example travel to some place in the same amount of relative time and think the same amount of things etc etc. Just that from some arbitrary made up observer outside the entire universe this is possible.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Dolan »

Well, that's the problem with the OP's thought experiment. There is no outside frame of reference relative to what is happening inside a universe (no privileged point of observation). A frame of reference can only be had from within the universe.

And at that point you're dealing with relative quantities between different frames of reference.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Yes it's still pointless.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by deleted_user »

Someone create a morality thread I'm feelin joocy
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Great Britain oats13
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by oats13 »

Quote @deleted_user4 "Ok, this is my conclusion: if we are a simulation then a truer reality exists. If that is true, then another even truer reality could exist." - this is basically what descartes meant by "cogito ergo sum" the original posits that one's brain could be in a jar and ones reality controlled by a 'daemon' contemporaneously equivalent to 'simulation' hence 'universal reality' as opposed to 'ultimate reality'- not bad for 1637 :biggrin:

However there seems to be some conflation in this thread- scale relativity- i.e scaling up a scale etc. and getting the same results, time and relativity and perception of some kind of time/reality relationship are different things.
We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created by the you know, you know the thing.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Jam »

Dolan wrote:Well, that's the problem with the OP's thought experiment. There is no outside frame of reference relative to what is happening inside a universe (no privileged point of observation). A frame of reference can only be had from within the universe.

And at that point you're dealing with relative quantities between different frames of reference.
I wasn't talking about an frame of reference outside the universe. I mentioned fast-forwarding to illustrate that the perception of time is what happens in the brain relative to the rest of reality.
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by momuuu »

Jam wrote:
Dolan wrote:Well, that's the problem with the OP's thought experiment. There is no outside frame of reference relative to what is happening inside a universe (no privileged point of observation). A frame of reference can only be had from within the universe.

And at that point you're dealing with relative quantities between different frames of reference.
I wasn't talking about an frame of reference outside the universe.

But then what does your first statement even mean?
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: The Passage of Time

Post by Goodspeed »

Imagining an outside frame of reference makes the concept much easier to understand/explain.

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